2020 MGA Rules Quiz - Q24

24. A player hits a ball which may be lost outside a penalty area. He properly announces and hits a

provisional ball into the same area. Both balls have identical markings and cannot be distinguished

from each other. Both balls are found in the penalty area. Which of the following is correct?

A. The player must choose one of the balls to be treated as his provisional.

B. The player may play either ball as his original or take relief from the penalty area.

C. Both balls are lost, and the player must play another ball under stroke and distance.

D. The player may play either ball as his provisional or take relief from the penalty area with

his original.

Great question. Ruling required.

Closest fit to the published words is A, per 18.3c(2), but other interpretations are possible here.

How would he know the reference point for his original?

Rule 17 does not require knowledge of the reference point - language is "estimated point where the original ball last crossed....". Nor do you need to know location of ball, you only need KVC ball is in PA.

If one ball entered with a fade and the other with a draw and both balls are some distance apart, which ball do you use for your estimate?

But I agree A is correct.

What do you see as the other interpretations?

I think the best alternate interpretation - in terms of fitting this scenario into the published Rules - is 18.3c(3) that states clearly that the provisional ball must be abandoned. So what we have is KVC that the original is in the PA in unknown position, which suggests the player can proceed under the 17.1d options, using S&D or those based on estimated point of last crossing. So I find it mysterious that MGA chose not to use that alternative fit with published words in the options they present.

What does the player do after choosing which ball is the provisional? Continue play with the other one?
If so, what is the difference between answer A and B?
( edit )
Nevermind, thanks to @Mr. Bean I see the difference.

What about 18.3c(3) ?

If both balls are found on the course , the player must choose one of the balls to be treated as the provisional ball  which is now in play, and the other ball is treated as lost  and must not be played.

I don’t understand how the provisional could be in play then the original is in penalty area. Would this be an equity ruling (if such a thing still exists)?

As both balls are in the PA it is certain that the original ball is in the PA. As that is the case the player may invoke R17.1b and take relief for the original ball with one PS. The twist here is that as both balls are found on the course and cannot be distinguished from each other the player is entitled to choose one of them and treat that as his provisional playing from the PA.

So my answer is D.

You clearly mean 18.3c(2) not 18.3c(3). And that is the basis of my post #2.And that is just one of the multiple charms of the question.

You clearly mean 18.3c(2) not 18.3c(3). And that is the basis of my post #2.

Oops

If the player plays a provisional ball into the same general location as the original ball and is unable to identify which ball is which:

If both balls are found on the course , the player must choose one of the balls to be treated as the provisional ball ......

#24 A Rule 18.3c(2) 

Why is it A? His original ball has been found in the PA and it is irrelevant which ball it is. Thus he may invoke 17.1b for his original ball as I described earlier. Why does MGA claim he cannot?

They are simply applying the wording in 18.3c(2) - the paragraph before the Exception. I think that is the best fit (and certainly among those answers provided). But see also my post #6.

But antip, the option D gives the fit you proposed in your post #6: 'So I find it mysterious that MGA chose not to use that alternative fit with published words in the options they present.'

I find it very strange that 18.3c(2) overrides 17.1. After all, it is KVC that the original ball is in the PA.

I don't find it strange, because I think it is closer to the intent that sits behind these respective rules (18.3c(2) v 18.3c(3)). But I repeat my original observation on this question: "Great question. Ruling required." My guess is RBs would affirm 18.3c(2) is the applicable rule, but that is far from a certainty.

'I don't find it strange, because I think it is closer to the intent that sits behind these respective rules (18.3c(2) v 18.3c(3)).'

The intent of those Rules is how to proceed when you need to choose a ball to continue with from two balls both found. However, there is no need for that when both balls are in a PA where you do not need to find your ball and may continue with another ball than either of those in the PA. Also if you should lose both of your balls from the tee in that PA you would be hitting your 3rd, not your 5th. Thus it makes very little sense that you are not allowed to use your options of R17.1 if your balls are not lost in the PA but are allowed if they are lost.

We can agree to disagree on which rule better fits - both sets of wording can be applied - and that's why this is an excellent question. We are agreeing that an official view would be needed to resolve this definitively.

The mapping summary says that the outcome of old Decision 27/11 has changed and references 18.3c(2). The last paragraph and the last bullet of that paragraph say that the player must choose one and treat it as his provisional. That appears straight-forward (and different than situation 2 in 27/11; perhaps that is what outcome which has changed?).

Yes, you could well be right, and that is also consistent with the view (that I support) that the broad principle in 18.3c(2) is more likely to be correct. But the fact remains, that the wording of 18.3c(3) is out there and can also be applied to the scenario in the question - so on the face of it, it is reasonable to argue that D27/11's Situation 2 finds a home in 18.3c(3). Umpire's confirmation would be definitive.

This is indeed an interesting case. Here we have two Rules both saying 'must' but with opposite results, and a third Rule saying 'may'.