USGA and RA about to screw up this game over distance

 bogeypro ·  
bogeyprobogeypro The Original BogeyproALClubWRX  3491WRX Points: 399Handicap: +1Posts: 3,491 ClubWRX
Joined:  edited Feb 20, 2020 7:13pm in Rules of Golf and Etiquette #1

Seriously, there will always be longer hitters. These organizations had no problems with the distance when it was attracting people to the sport. Tournament setups of no rough, no focus on accuracy... just bomb and birdie. Now, they go and do a study... get ready for stupid changes instead of just making a premium on accuracy. <sarcasm> I can't wait to see what these folks to combat the "distance problem".....

Posted:
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Comments

  • LeoLeo99LeoLeo99 Members  4802WRX Points: 688Posts: 4,802 Titanium Tees
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    Do you think there isn't a problem? I'm seeing 500 yard par 4s and 600+ par 5s that the longer hitters are reaching in 2. Crazy. How do you make the courses playable and challenging for both the pros and average joes?

    Posted:
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  • Warrior42111Warrior42111 FloridaMembers  404WRX Points: 219Handicap: 19Posts: 404 Greens
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    Is there a distance problem at the high level of .1% of all golfers? probably.

    Let's realize that the majority of all golfers do not break 100 let alone 90. Trying to make the game much harder for the 99.9% to make the game for the 0.1% slightly more difficult is the definition of insanity.

    Posted:

    Taylormade M6 10.5| Project X Even Flow Black X 6.5
    Taylormade M4 Tour 15 * |Mitsubishi Tensei CK White 70 X
    Ping G400 18
    | PING Alta CB 65 Stiff
    Callaway Apex 19 4-PW | Nippon Modus Tour 3 120 X
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  • MudguardMudguard Members  1461WRX Points: 202Posts: 1,461 Platinum Tees
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    I hope they simply have a max ball speed for pros. I'm tired of this tiny minority dictating rules and equipment for the bulk of golfers.

    Posted:
  • NessismNessism To measure is to know... Members  19370WRX Points: 1,448Posts: 19,370 Titanium Tees
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    A shorter distance ball for the pro's won't affect us so who cares?

    Posted:
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    Cobra (Lexi blue) F7 5 wood w/Aldila Rogue Black 70S
    Cobra (Lexi blue) F7 Hybrid w/Aldila Kuro Kage 80S
    Ping G410 irons w/Recoil 95S
    Ping Glide 55/60 wedges w/Recoil 110S
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  • smashdnsmashdn Let's cut them trees down. Members  2073WRX Points: 784Posts: 2,073 Platinum Tees
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    The natural counter to what you are saying is that even when the equipment was old and wooden and steel, the majority of golfers didn't break 100 let alone 90. A roll back or whatever you want to call it will not change it. The game won't be much harder as the equipment has not made it much easier for the bulk of golfers.


    The best running shoes in the world don't make a couch potato a 4 minute mile runner. But they can make a measurable difference at the very highest level.

    Posted:
  • j.a.j.a. Members  1748WRX Points: 190Posts: 1,748 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Feb 20, 2020 8:36pm #7

    There is always the possibility of having different tees.

    In a course I visit from time to time, the distance between white, black and blue tees are around 20m each. While in a Pro event, the longest par 5 may be 540m, average Joes like me plays at 500m and ladies at 460m

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  • LeoLeo99LeoLeo99 Members  4802WRX Points: 688Posts: 4,802 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Feb 20, 2020 8:43pm #8

    The courses are too short for the pros even at the tips. That is the crux of the problem. They can't move the pro tees back any more.

    Posted:
  • LondonerLondoner Members  1555WRX Points: 344Handicap: 10Posts: 1,555 Platinum Tees
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    I take your point but (certainly in the UK) golf was far more popular before the high tech clubs and solid balls came in.

    Probably coincidentally and more due to kids attention span than anything else.

    Posted:
    Mizuno mp h5. 4-W KBS tour stiff 2 iron modus 3 stiff.
    taylormade m2 Driver + hl 3 wood
    ping anser
    Titleist sm6 50 +54
    Cleveland 60
  • tbsbamatbsbama Members  71WRX Points: 37Posts: 71 Bunkers
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    Why don’t they do like they did for the US Open at Merion. Grow the rough up and narrow the fairways. Not for the everyday member but in preparation for a pro tourney. 1 over won that week at 6900 yards. It can be done it is proven a would allow these older historic course to still hold a championship tournament.

    Posted:
  • phil75070phil75070 North Texas - 32m North of DallasMembers  1933WRX Points: 122Handicap: 3.6Posts: 1,933 Platinum Tees
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    The USGA/R&A have a history of not thinking things through before acting. The whole groove thing was supposed to address the distance issue and put an end to "bomb and gouge" by making it more difficult to put spin on the ball coming out of the rough, Yeah, that worked.

    Posted:
  • Warrior42111Warrior42111 FloridaMembers  404WRX Points: 219Handicap: 19Posts: 404 Greens
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    I understand what you and @smashdn have said. My concern would be how many golfers would leave the game? The point about the UK is interesting, I would definitely say the US is the opposite and had the Tiger effect happen.

    I would be nervous about a rollback and with the large but aging baby boomer population causing a large decline in golfers overall.

    Posted:

    Taylormade M6 10.5| Project X Even Flow Black X 6.5
    Taylormade M4 Tour 15 * |Mitsubishi Tensei CK White 70 X
    Ping G400 18
    | PING Alta CB 65 Stiff
    Callaway Apex 19 4-PW | Nippon Modus Tour 3 120 X
    Callaway MD4 48* / 54* / 59* | Nippon Modus Tour 3 120 X
    Odyssey Stroke Lab, Toulon Memphis 34"

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  • smashdnsmashdn Let's cut them trees down. Members  2073WRX Points: 784Posts: 2,073 Platinum Tees
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    Not discounting your concerns regarding baby boomers, but realistically if the concern is about that demographic, how much longer can you count on them to buoy golfer numbers as a whole? I do see your point that it gets reported that golfer numbers are declining and there is no need to speed their departure for any reason.

    Baseball is currently suffering an identity crisis as well and is, imo, making some unsavory changes in an attempt to be all things to all people. Unfortunately they are alienating their core base. I hope golf does not follow suite.

    Posted:
  • LondonerLondoner Members  1555WRX Points: 344Handicap: 10Posts: 1,555 Platinum Tees
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    In the UK, 30 years ago you queued for well over an hour for a tee on a public course. Private clubs had waiting lists (in years) for members and charged a joining fee in addition to annual subscriptions.

    Now you can pretty well walk straight out on a public course. Private clubs are competing for members. No joining fees and special deals for new members.

    Most clubs have no junior section, small ladies section. Very few players under 50 years of age. Some clubs even offer free membership if under 21.

    It would seem to me that in the UK the game is dying.

    Posted:
    Mizuno mp h5. 4-W KBS tour stiff 2 iron modus 3 stiff.
    taylormade m2 Driver + hl 3 wood
    ping anser
    Titleist sm6 50 +54
    Cleveland 60
  • Warrior42111Warrior42111 FloridaMembers  404WRX Points: 219Handicap: 19Posts: 404 Greens
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    Man that is so different. Albeit it is prime season right now in Florida I have 12 public courses within a 30 minute drive. Right now it is nothing but crowds and slow rounds. I go to a range after work and it's packed. It's good in the sense of public interest, but played a Par 67 as a twosome in 4:30 and there was literally no where to go.

    Posted:

    Taylormade M6 10.5| Project X Even Flow Black X 6.5
    Taylormade M4 Tour 15 * |Mitsubishi Tensei CK White 70 X
    Ping G400 18
    | PING Alta CB 65 Stiff
    Callaway Apex 19 4-PW | Nippon Modus Tour 3 120 X
    Callaway MD4 48* / 54* / 59* | Nippon Modus Tour 3 120 X
    Odyssey Stroke Lab, Toulon Memphis 34"

  • LondonerLondoner Members  1555WRX Points: 344Handicap: 10Posts: 1,555 Platinum Tees
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    Packed courses very rare here now.

    Its not just golf though. Soccer, Cricket, Tennis. Athletics (track & field), all struggling to recruit juniors and survive.

    Posted:
    Mizuno mp h5. 4-W KBS tour stiff 2 iron modus 3 stiff.
    taylormade m2 Driver + hl 3 wood
    ping anser
    Titleist sm6 50 +54
    Cleveland 60
  • LeoLeo99LeoLeo99 Members  4802WRX Points: 688Posts: 4,802 Titanium Tees
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    Same thing happened with bowling. It was much more popular when bowling balls were low tech back in the 70s and before than now with high tech balls.

    Posted:
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  • MudguardMudguard Members  1461WRX Points: 202Posts: 1,461 Platinum Tees
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    It's similar in New Zealand. To be honest we've probably always had too many golf courses per capita. I was perusing some info on my old club, in the mid nineties they had over a thousand members. But that dwindled to perhaps half that.

    I'm really torn between initiatives to attract new players and maintaining value for existing members. Here most of the courses are 'public' in that the sense if you are happy to pay a green fee, you can play. There are some truly private clubs, but there's probably less than a dozen. Of course this doesn't mean you could ring up my course on Wednesday and book 9am the following Saturday, but if there were some free afternoon slots almost anyone can play.

    As for distance, the sooner we have bifurcation, the better. I only know a smattering about baseball, but surely if wooden bats mean the don't have to rebuild stadiums then surely golf could follow suit for professionals. NB, I don't necessarily mean pros going back to persimmon!!

    Posted:
  • JohnnyCashForeverJohnnyCashForever In a big country, dreams stay with you PAMembers  432WRX Points: 358Posts: 432 Greens
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    If "Them Powers That Be" do this right, it could be a win-win for everyone.

    I look at it this way. A shorter ball doesn't make the game harder for the average player if the courses are also shortened. So instead of 6200-6700 yards, the courses become 5500 - 6200 yards from the white and blue tees. If the new tee boxes are in the right places, the holes become manageable with the shorter ball while retaining their strategic integrity. If the ball doesn't go as far, there is less chance of losing a ball from a wayward shot. Less time wasted looking for lost balls. Fewer lost balls mean faster rounds. Shorter courses also mean less area to maintain. Less maintenance means lower greens/membership fees. These are all good things IMO.

    Posted:
  • Sean2Sean2 Members  32464WRX Points: 2,445Posts: 32,464 Titanium Tees
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    Again, the USGA makes decisions based on the 0.00001 percent of golfers. Forget about the other 60 million that keep the game alive.

    Posted:

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  • daleheaddalehead Members  1848WRX Points: 552Posts: 1,848 Platinum Tees
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    Just need a ball that the long hitters can’t hit more than say 290 but the average golfer still hits the same distance he does today.

    Posted:
  • NessismNessism To measure is to know... Members  19370WRX Points: 1,448Posts: 19,370 Titanium Tees
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    No way the USGA/R&A roll back the ball just because the pro's hit it so long. Some of you guys worry too much.

    Posted:
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    Cobra (Lexi blue) F7 Hybrid w/Aldila Kuro Kage 80S
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  • storm319storm319 USMembers  4216WRX Points: 444Posts: 4,216 Titanium Tees
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    Posted:
  • Z1ggy16Z1ggy16 Members  9289WRX Points: 1,460Posts: 9,289 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Feb 21, 2020 1:35am #24

    The last I checked, average joe's shoot 90+ from 6100 yards. If there is a problem it's 1) within .001% of the golfing population, and 2) due to course lay outs and conditions allowing and encouraging such shots.

    I find this whole thing quite funny, because the PGA Tour is almost actively ruining their own game. All they do is play highlights and air guys like Rory murdering the ball 360, meanwhile the average score hasn't gone down in lord knows in how long. They want to attract new viewers by showing us how "se.xy" golf is, and now a bunch of old crusty guys who want us off their proverbial golf lawn are essentially threatening to take it all away. It's pure gold.

    Stop worrying people. You heard Peter Kostis... the Tour is ALL about that $$$. Big drives sell. You think those fat cats are going to let the R&A risk their precious profits???

    Posted:
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  • braincramp52braincramp52 Freeport, IllinoisMembers  6238WRX Points: 1,523Handicap: 10Posts: 6,238 Titanium Tees
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    Posted:
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    Snell MTB X


    Just because your offended doesn't mean you're right
  • LeoLeo99LeoLeo99 Members  4802WRX Points: 688Posts: 4,802 Titanium Tees
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    It's not a good product to televise pro punching out sideways. And whoever can bomb it straight for 4 days will win the tournament.

    Posted:
  • CMCSGolfCMCSGolf Members  622WRX Points: 151Posts: 622 Golden Tee
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    Do you find this type of golf interesting to watch? The US Open at Merion or the PGA at Bellerive could never be more interesting than Augusta or the British Open in my opinion. Thick rough creates a tournament that only tests executing a swing, where wider courses can test playing the game in a much wider view.

    Posted:
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  • braincramp52braincramp52 Freeport, IllinoisMembers  6238WRX Points: 1,523Handicap: 10Posts: 6,238 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Feb 21, 2020 3:55am #28

    Yes, I do. Much more than driver and 9 iron into a par 5.

    Posted:
    Ping G400 driver
    Titleist 917 F2 3 wood
    Ping Anser 20,23,27 Hybrids 
    Wilson Staff MB's 6-PW
    Ping Glide 3.0 50*
    Ping, Glide 54,58ES Wedge
    Scotty Cameron Newport 3

    Snell MTB X


    Just because your offended doesn't mean you're right
  • AThompson_3AThompson_3 Members  1475WRX Points: 139Posts: 1,475 Platinum Tees
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    A different ball on tour vs amateurs would be the beginning of the end for golf. So would amateurs playing in USGA/R&A events have to play with the tour ball? What about the junior/high school/ college level? No way Matthew Wolfe or Victor Hovland would have been able to jump straight into professional golf from the college game. It would take months maybe even years before they would be able to adjust from the amateur ball to the tour ball. **** what about a friendly game with your buddies? One guy breaks out a tour ball and shoots 80 and another guy in the group plays the amateur ball but shot 78. Is the distance loss worth 2 shots? Potentially. Assuming the course has 3-4 par 5’s that’s at least 3-4 holes that are now harder to reach in 2. It’s a simple solution guys. Grow the rough up super high for tour events and stop cutting down trees. Problem solved.

    Posted:
    Driver: Callaway Epic SZ 9* Fujikura Atmos Tour Spec Black 6X
    3 Wood: Titleist 917 F2 15* Diamana D+ 70X
    Hybrid: Titleist 818 H2 19* Fujikura Atmos HB Tour Spec Black 9X
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    Putter(s): Odyssey O Works 7s Black, Bettinardi BB1F
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  • LondonerLondoner Members  1555WRX Points: 344Handicap: 10Posts: 1,555 Platinum Tees
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    The average score may not have gone down but that could be down to other factors. Like the tricked up greens and pin positions at Riviera. They were about the courses only protection against the bombers.

    Posted:
    Mizuno mp h5. 4-W KBS tour stiff 2 iron modus 3 stiff.
    taylormade m2 Driver + hl 3 wood
    ping anser
    Titleist sm6 50 +54
    Cleveland 60
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  • LondonerLondoner Members  1555WRX Points: 344Handicap: 10Posts: 1,555 Platinum Tees
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    I really don't understand the point you're trying to make in your last sentence.

    Posted:
    Mizuno mp h5. 4-W KBS tour stiff 2 iron modus 3 stiff.
    taylormade m2 Driver + hl 3 wood
    ping anser
    Titleist sm6 50 +54
    Cleveland 60
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