Question about refunds

So I sold a set of shafts to a guy On here. The shafts played standard in my AP2s and when he installed them into his clubs they were 1/2”. We came to the conclusion my hosels were deeper than his. He then was going to put extensions in them and removed them from his clubs and two shafts were bent. They were not bent when I shipped them. He now wants a refund. Should I refund him? Or not since the shafts were not bent when I shipped them.

Not in my opinion. I’m hardly a builder but I fiddle. I always dry test anything I buy. The second he altered or installed/used just one of them they’re his. Assuming your version is accurate - tough luck for the buyer.

If it wasn't for the bending I would consider it, even though it isn't necessarily your faulty, however once they were bent then it is game over for the buyer.

Keep all correspondence from the buyer to submit to PayPal. I’d let them decide. I think once installed/glued, they are his to keep.

And invite the buyer to this thread.

I’ll even go further. If I bought shafts from you and they were exactly as described - in this case measurements - and they didn’t work for me that’s on me too. If my hosels are deeper that’s too bad for me - you didn’t do anything wrong. I’d just try to sell them to recoup whatever money I could.

i'm sure he assumed the hosel depth would be the same or didn't even think about it at the time of purchase. although once they were altered - they're his now.

I agree with those that said once he altered them by installing and removing them form his clubs no refund is warrented.

Refund? Guy should’ve done some research prior to buying pulls to make sure they work. I bought pullover here last week and found out they run small while waiting for it to be shipped. I asked the seller if we could cancel the transaction but he decided to just ship the item without replying back.

Well, now I have a shirt that is a bit small and rather than hassle the seller, I’ll just end up reselling it or giving it away. It was my bad I didn’t know the manufacturer’s sizing.

Buyer needs to chalk it up as a learning lesson.

I agree with the other posters. He should have done his research about the length, but I still might consider a refund. But with 2 of the shafts being bent? Fuggetaboutit

Has the buyer been invited to this thread? Or has he chosen not to share his side of the story?

No he has not as I was told to keep him out of it by a mod.

Once he installed them they are his. Not sure why he needed to remove them either If the plan was to extend them.

In the future post the raw lengths of all shafts so there is zero potential confusion.

The buyer installed them. He is SOL. No refund. Shame you were told by a mod to not involve the buyer in the thread. That's BS.

Not sure if that was incorrectly communicated or not, but our protocol is to have both parties respond in these types of threads.

Invite him to this topic.

Sorry to clarify I read the message wrong the mod sent me. He just said not to include personal information. He did not say "do not include the other party involved."

Have you informed the buyer since he installed the shafts, they belong to him? If so and he by chance responded negatively, link him to the thread. If he understands, I'd let it go and be done with it.

It seems like the buyer should know exactly what length shafts they want and verify that information with you before buying.

Or, measure the shafts upon arrival to make sure they are what you need.

Installing the shafts and then realizing they aren't the length you want? That's too late.

I would never expect any type of refund at that point unless the seller deliberately deceived me somehow or there were bad defects in the shafts.

I’ve bought iron shafts that had each individual length listed, and when I got them and dry fitted them they came up half an inch shorter than I expected. That was my own fault for not double checking; I just installed them with extensions and all worked out perfect. It’s ludicrous to think that my lack of research should be the responsibility of the seller.

I think it is time then to identify the other party.

The deal is done once they were delivered in an undamaged state and as described. The hosel depths are irrelevant, that is on the buyer for not doing the requisite homework.

I’m curious to hear their take on this as well. Seems a bit ridiculous and entitled to expect the seller to make something right, if the details are accurate as they’ve been laid out.

Yeah no refund is needed. I sold a car with an apparent brake issue despite having it checked over two times at my shop. Buyer refused to have it checked over anywhere until after they gave me cash. At that point they had signed a bill of sale. Told them sorry, tough shit and you should have had it checked by your garage as I gave them the opportunity countless of times. Once something in good condition leaves my site I don't know what the person did with it... So no go.

On the other hand I sold a high end shaving brush and regretted it immediately. The knot broke off the handle and the dude wanted a refund. I gladly gave him the cash back and repaired the brush.

Buyer here! I was just made aware of this thread today so here is my side of the story:

To begin I would like to say I had 100% positive feedback on the old site with well over 100 transactions. I still don't understand why they did away with that.

I received the used shaft pulls (5-Pw). I went to build the 7 iron and realized it was 1/2" short of standard (36.5" installed). I never built or installed any club except the 7 iron. I told the buyer they were playing 1/2" short and asked him what heads they were originally installed in to which he replied ap2's. I did more researched and realize that the bottom bore to ground measurement could be different between the heads they were pulled from and the heads that I have (bridgestone j15 cb) and that could be the reason for the difference in playing length. That part was my oversight and I never asked the seller for a refund due to the length issue. I decided I was going to install 1/2" butt extensions and roll with it.

It was at that point I realized the tips on the 5 and 6 iron were bent. This is a known KBS issue - there are multiple wrx threads about this!! I never built or installed any club except the 7 iron (see attached photograph from a few minutes ago showing this). The 7i has a ferrule and the tip has been recently sanded (from my installation). All of the other clubs have old epoxy and old tip weights in them (which is how they were when I received them).

I offered to pay for return shipping in exchange for a refund. I certainly do not feel like this is an unwarranted refund request. You can see in the photo below that the 2 shafts on the far left (5 and 6i) have bent tips. They are in the exact same condition now as when I received them. I do not think the seller knew about the bent tips - I am not accusing him of that.

I

Have a look at this thread, which has a link to 5 additional threads all on the same topic. KBS C Taper tips being bent. The shafts in this transaction were KBS C Taper 125 S+

https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1446822/kbs-c-taper-bent-tips

I would chalk it up as buyer beware when buying pulls. I think you learned something about bottom of bore.

You may get KBS to replace the shafts that are bent. Seems like it may be worth a call or email to their customer service. Then an extension in the others...good luck.

And there is a whole different side to the story...

A plot twist. Which is why I said assuming above...

If you received in this condition and noticed when building, and stopped the build at the first iron, then I don’t understand why the seller just doesn’t give the refund and take them back. Unless he doesn’t believe that you never installed the shafts.

Sounds like there has been some communication break down at some point, since the details are different coming out of both camps as to what work was done with the shafts. Really, you ought to be grown ups and work this out privately. Unless the seller feels like the buyer is being dishonest with his details of the installation (or lack of installation), this should have been an open-and-shut refund and return when the buyer pointed out damage.

Now I’m curious to hear why the seller is pushing back. His original post indicates that he is certain they were not bent when he shipped. Which, again, tells me you two need to try to hash this out privately before coming to this forum to air out laundry.

Seller, you may need to come to grips with the fact that those shafts could well have been bent when you sent them, and you didn’t notice. And the buyer has to be able to put himself in the sellers shoes and ease his mind that he isn’t up to some shady buyer’s remorse game.

The seller already said twice in the OP that "They were not bent when I shipped them".

So if the seller truly believes that then they probably don't want to give a refund.

If the clubs were purchased via PayPal G&S? Can't the buyer open a claim for not as described?

If they disagree over when the tips got bent, it doesn't seem like they will ever be able to agree on this issue.

Yeah....I thought it was pretty straight forward too. I was surprised today when he said he started a thread about it and he wanted me to post my side of the story so we could "see what people say".

At the end of the day I think there was a misunderstanding about whether or not I had installed all of the shafts. The seller has agreed to give me a refund if KBS doesn't make it right. I 100% agree that this should have been worked out between the two of us privately. Maybe if the feedback system was still around he would have trusted me instead of thinking I was trying to get one over on him..maybe..just my 2 cents.

Anyways- we have resolved this. Thanks for the input, lessons learned all the way around.