Podcast- Mental toughness from a former golf phenom

 hangontight ·  
hangontighthangontight Members  715WRX Points: 173Posts: 715 Golden Tee
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I posted this in another thread, but just listened again. It’s so good I wanted to repost to make sure everyone saw it. Covers it all- parent body language, relationship, confidence, strategy. Reallly real and really good.

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  • leezer99leezer99 Boy - 2026 Members  1718WRX Points: 1,037Handicap: A BillionPosts: 1,718 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Feb 24, 2020 1:51pm #2

    Fantastic pod. Thanks for sharing.

    Edit: Around the 54 minute mark, Mr. Jennings says parents should drop off their kids at their lesson and leave. Some of you know that my daughter is a competitive gymnast at a top gym and they say the exact same thing. Even if the parents choose to stay they are sequestered to a small viewing area where the kids can't see them or hear them. Most importantly her progress has increased tenfold since we switched to this gym plus she comes home every night with a smile.

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    Post edited by leezer99 on

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

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  • TripleBogeysrbetterTripleBogeysrbetter Members  299WRX Points: 209Handicap: 21Posts: 299 Greens
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    My son commented yesterday about Justin Thomas's Dad. He said how are they still speaking to each other.

    He is his coach and follows him everywhere.


    Great advice above. I never watch lessons. I will watch him play, but as I told him that's only cause I really enjoy watching him play.

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  • BloctonGolf11BloctonGolf11 Members  549WRX Points: 378Handicap: 8Posts: 549 Golden Tee
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    During basketball season I sat in the lobby of the YMCA and read a book. A friend came by and said why are you not in the gym!? Haven't you coached High School basketball before? I responded, that isn't my team, it is the coaches business, I am just here if needed for an emergency. I will watch the games. It is not a hard concept.


    Golf wise I use to watch his lessons, now if I do I hang out from a distance or go to the range and work on my own terrible game.

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    Just a father and son on a journey together through golf....
  • JuniorGolfParentJuniorGolfParent Members  184WRX Points: 117Posts: 184 Fairways
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    My son's coach actually believes the opposite and wants parents to attend and be involved in the lesson.

    Many club pros in youth sports feel that parents use lessons and clinics as a form of baby-sitting. Can't say I disagree with them.

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  • DaddyCaddieIUDaddyCaddieIU Members  83WRX Points: 36Posts: 83 Fairways
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    A lot of really good stuff in the podcast, the comment that made me feel guilty was walking ahead after a bad hole or bad shot. I do my best but man, how you can turn a 4 into a 7 on the card in a heartbeat is hard to watch at times!

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  • pmbluepmblue Members  1WRX Points: 21Posts: 1 Starters
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    I can't say that I agree with the idea just drop of your kids for lessons and pick them up after. I think the age of the kid and the ultimate intention of what the parents want to achieve for their kid is a big consideration. Rasmus Ankersen's youtube video of the about the role of parents in developing world class athletes has a nice explanation for this.

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  • hangontighthangontight Members  715WRX Points: 173Posts: 715 Golden Tee
    Joined:  edited Feb 25, 2020 12:55pm #8

    Love the honestly- it’s hard! My son ,9, played first real no caddie Tmnt (not counting PGAJL) last weekend. Played aweful and I could spot mistakes happening in setup and club selection from 100 yards away- all the more proof that it’s time to let him fly. To my surprise he really did well in his pre-shot routine and process, which is what we’ve been working on. He learned pretty quick that eyeballing a yardage isn’t a good plan! Anyway, going in I told him I would stay ahead of play , which I did..probably 100-150 yards and never left the cart path. Even between holes I was already gone and we didn’t speak until after the round (I did motion one time to drink drink water). I did my best to remain stoic - birdie or triple. It was hard but I really enjoyed it.

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  • hangontighthangontight Members  715WRX Points: 173Posts: 715 Golden Tee
    Joined:  edited Feb 25, 2020 10:08pm #9
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  • TuguTugu Members  99WRX Points: 48Posts: 99 Fairways
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    I cant say one way is correct or not. But in watching Asian style parenting in all facets of life since I have lived over here, this concept is foreign, if not outright anathema to them. Yet they churn out LPGA tour pros by the dozen.

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  • leezer99leezer99 Boy - 2026 Members  1718WRX Points: 1,037Handicap: A BillionPosts: 1,718 Platinum Tees
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    East Asian Population = 1.7 billion.

    US Population = 327 million

    I'm sure there are many other factors but the numbers are definitely on the side of East Asia.

    Posted:

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members  3660WRX Points: 1,004Posts: 3,660 Titanium Tees
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    This is a phenomenal podcast.

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  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members  3660WRX Points: 1,004Posts: 3,660 Titanium Tees
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    Love the drop them off and leave. Every parent should do that. About the only time I show up anymore is when he is trying out new equipment and on the flight scope. When he is learning I am at home or working.

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  • dlc1914dlc1914 Members  31WRX Points: 49Handicap: 25Posts: 31 Bunkers
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    That sounds good, but I like to ear hustle during his lessons. It helps my game out as well!

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  • leezer99leezer99 Boy - 2026 Members  1718WRX Points: 1,037Handicap: A BillionPosts: 1,718 Platinum Tees
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    This has ruined my game... I don't bend and turn like a 12 year old anymore.

    Posted:

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

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  • TuguTugu Members  99WRX Points: 48Posts: 99 Fairways
    Joined:  edited Feb 27, 2020 5:36am #17

    The overwhelming majority of the “East Asian” population in the statistic you quote are not even living beyond a third world level, much less than contemplating golf.

    Assume for second your statement is statistically significant, does it hold up when one compares simply Korea to the USA? Do the population comparison and see the disparity on the side of USA. They simply take a different approach to junior golf development to the one being praised in this thread.

    I can’t say if the Korean/Asian way turns out happier and more balanced human beings, but it sure as heck has churned out way more elite female golfers.

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  • TuguTugu Members  99WRX Points: 48Posts: 99 Fairways
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    I’d suggest a quick look on google and you will see articles from the scholarly to the esoteric on what you have asked. Far be it for me to add my two cents on the matter.

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  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members  17144WRX Points: 1,341Posts: 17,144 Titanium Tees
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    Virtually no parents of any of my regular students hang around for lessons. In the beginning most do and then as time goes by it becomes drop of and pick them up. I think it allows them to just be a parent and be supportive and actually takes a burden off of them. The kids tend to improve faster as well. This includes the families that travel several hours to see me. Parents go shopping or grab lunch in clubhouse.

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  • Sean2Sean2 Members  32464WRX Points: 2,445Posts: 32,464 Titanium Tees
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    I did that with my son. He didn't need me hanging over him. I would drop him off and go practice or something.

    Posted:

    Treat yourself as if you were someone you are responsible for helping. Jordan Peterson

    Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest thing of all is to see life as it is, and not as it should be. Cervantes

    In golf, the human mind has much higher capabilities to screw things up than the physics has to make things better. Unknown

     

  • leezer99leezer99 Boy - 2026 Members  1718WRX Points: 1,037Handicap: A BillionPosts: 1,718 Platinum Tees
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    If you watched the most recent Como Concepts on GC with Xander Schauffele and his dad they talk about a lot of the same things. Dad would drop him off at tournaments so X had to figure stuff out on his own and invariably cause him to grow up faster. My favorite part though was when he said his dad would throw third place medals in the trash in front of the other kids because 'that's not why we are here'. (Goes back to another thread on here titled "Angry Parents Effective Coaches".)

    Posted:

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

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  • dlc1914dlc1914 Members  31WRX Points: 49Handicap: 25Posts: 31 Bunkers
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    Sounds like an a**hole move to me. Obviously that approached worked out GREAT for his son, but I don't see any good about that move.

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  • hangontighthangontight Members  715WRX Points: 173Posts: 715 Golden Tee
    Joined:  edited Feb 28, 2020 5:15pm #24

    Just my takeaway, but I get the sense that Xander & Dad relationship was probably a little more rocky than is being reported many years later. They let on that it was rough at times, but time and success has probably smoothed some of that over. The going narrative for success is the practices mentioned in this podcast - multiple sports, low pressure, stay out of it,etc. ....., but it sounds like X dad was riding him a lot harder. His success despite his Dads upbringing may be an outlier.

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  • leezer99leezer99 Boy - 2026 Members  1718WRX Points: 1,037Handicap: A BillionPosts: 1,718 Platinum Tees
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    Posted:

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • JuniorGolfParentJuniorGolfParent Members  184WRX Points: 117Posts: 184 Fairways
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    hard to get extraordinary outcomes with ordinary methods

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  • TuguTugu Members  99WRX Points: 48Posts: 99 Fairways
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    My previous post about the parenting and training methods I see in Asia went down like a lead balloon. But if one was to really examine many of the athletes, from Serena Williams to Ichiro to Tiger to Anthony Kim or even Ty Tryon, the low pressure/expectation route is not exactly the norm.

    I fully acknowledge that some of these methods utilized (such as by Xander’s father) may create less than ideal childhoods and leave mental scars in adults.

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  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members  1546WRX Points: 363Posts: 1,546 Platinum Tees
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    look a person is either competitive or there not. some kids just have no desire to compete and win. I don’t care how much tough love you give them they don’t care. I see these kids all the time who parents think they care.

    the kids that care will care no matter what you do to them. Honestly they beat themselves up more then any parent ever will if they lose. If you have a kid who likes to compete this is pretty obvious.

    Some parents think child abuse is a good way to go. Well it doesn’t really work in the long run. The vast majority of kids Who the parents abused run away as fast as they can and don’t pick up a club ever again. It’s very common.

    a well balanced individual who isn’t nuts from abuse is what makes it beyond junior golf.

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  • leezer99leezer99 Boy - 2026 Members  1718WRX Points: 1,037Handicap: A BillionPosts: 1,718 Platinum Tees
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    Just listened to the Earn Your Edge podcast with Xander during today's commute and it's a good one. Speaks to how his father's patience with him was what it took. Although they had their yelling matches they were able to get the crap out and come together to achieve Xander's goals.

    Posted:

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • hangontighthangontight Members  715WRX Points: 173Posts: 715 Golden Tee
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    Yeah, that’s the one I was referencing. Good one. I think they did one just before with Cantlay- which was pretty different. Goes to show that every kid is different so there is no one size fits all approach. Some kids respond to the push, others shut down.

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