Mizuno Club-building - HELP

Hello - looking to rebuild my MP68’s. I know there’s a million topics on this but I figured I’d start fresh as I haven’t found a straight answer.

QUESTION - Does anyone know how Mizuno measures their irons? I know they measure without grip, but do they use a standard 60* bench measure for all irons, or do they measure individually off of each iron lie. I’m looking to buy a new bench measure for the rebuild and I’m unsure about whether to buy the 60* “for all” measure or one that you can individually adjust lie on.

any help greatly appreciated!

https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/comment/19104571/#Comment_19104571

I hope the link send you to the actual post in the tread, if not go to post #6

Maybe I'm not following...but does it matter? Buy either one, cut your grips off, then measure each club and note the measurement. Then, when you dry fit during the rebuild, cut each one to the same measured length.

I Agree, thats the way to do it, and its NOT easy to use a variable lie angle ruler, and its for a reason OEM has their own ruler systems, and ill try to explain why.

If we have a ruler with a FLAT surface where we make contact on the middle of the sole, we will get a variable PL depending on the sole camber heel to toe and bounce. Mizuno (old system) measured to "pin height", and thats more or less the same as what a Mitchell ruler does, its NOT the center of the sole who is in contact with the ruler pin, but closer to heel side to take out some camber and effective bounce. Mizuno old system subtracted 1/8" for sole camber and bounce, the "new" Mizuno measure standard subtract 3/8" from a gripped club, so they actually still use "pin height" of 1/8" and another 2/8" for the grip. If we place that club on a fixed 60* ruler with a FLAT surface and center sole contact, return value would be average 3/8" longer than paper specs.

OEMs just say "We use a proprietary length board that was designed by our engineers", and that means the ruler itself dont have point zero at the corner or end of the sole, they have a certain factor to take camber and effective bounce out of play, and WE CANT BUY a ruler like that. The variable lie angle rulers on the marked will return a LONGER play length than paper specs.

Here is what im talking about, the head to the left has a visible camber heel to toe and that club will look / measure longer on a ruler with a flat surface and mid sole contact, so they all have a "adjustment factor" to take this out of play, or equalize for sole variables.

The Lie boards they are using gives this effect to equalize for sole properties, but only Mizuno tells us how much (1/8"), the others dont tell.

If you buy a MITCHELL ruler, it has a fixed lie angle of 60*, and since the pin we put the sole against is placed against the heel side, it does the same, it take some of the sole camber and bounce out of play to get more equal or more constant return values so the ruler is "independent" of what sole properties the club has. i strongly advocate to use a ruler like that, NOT the ones with variable lie since we might forget to set lie correct, and non of them ive seen has any "equalizing" of sole properties, but will work like the first illustration shows.

In the end it does not matter what ruler we use, as long as we use the same ruler and measure standard from start to end, but i still suggest the Mitchell ruler since its easy and safer where we cant forget to set lie angle correct, so it eliminates one possible human error.

JMHO, but why even take into consideration OEM spec. Does that actually fit you? I have always checked the lie to make sure it was correct for the player, then length cut to suit the player then adjust weight to suit the player. Length measure is to center of the sole. camber or not. Maybe I'm just old school, but I figure I know the player better than an OEM does.

BT

Think of the club head of a iron in grounded address position, toe is up, and sole contact is to the heel side of center, in the same area the Mitchell ruler has its "sole pin"., and thats how we "experience" play length from address position. Ive tilted the heads 3* here.

how did your build go? I'm going to be re shifting my mp 68s soon as well

Curious as well. Will reshaft my MP-15 long irons I bought separately on the bay (with three different shafts haha).

completed mine today. went relatively easy. did my swing weight without the grips all to “d5-d6” except pw that came at E1. did 10 gram difference in heads starting with pw at about 296 and 5 iron ending at roughly 260 for both 5 and 6 iron.

i used some swing weight calculator added the shaft to the head with ferrules about 2 gram each and tip weights where necessary. used a drywall sand block to prep tips and after scuffed them up with sand paper. i mixed enough for one club the first time as this was my first time doing this. the second mix i got 2, and the last mix i was able to do the rest. to get the epoxy into the head i split a paint stirrer so it would fit down inside and was able to coat the sides. spun the tip of the shaft on my mixing tray , inserted club in and twisted in while holding the head in my hand. hit the butt end against the floor. then used a baby wipe to clean excess off ferrule and head. then laid if across a cooler i had in the basement.

let them cure in front of a space heater for a bout a hour and then installed the grips with air.

it was pretty easy you will be fine @LukeDonaldsTiger

Thanks @cpeck! Very interesting.
I don’t have a swing weight scale and honestly, no idea what SW is right for me. I’m pulling S300’s in standard length from other Mizzys and will put them in the MP-15 heads, then will extend them by 1/2” and put Midsize grips on them.
I understand the extension will add a few points, making the heads feel heavier, right? Will this be very noticeable or will I be fine? I’m not super finicky (yet) with balance, but if I’m far off standard SW, I suspect it will feel off. Any tips?

don’t know what it will do man, this was my first dab into that. i don’t have a swing weight scale either. i used a gram scale to weight everything separately wrote all the numbers down, then added weights to actually only pw and 5 iron shaft tips to keep the heads spread out.

then i put ferrules and laid the entire club on the scale. then used a wooden triangle block and found balance point fo shaft. measured to the butt end from that point and entered it in on the web site. made them heavier swing weight because i didn’t have grip on and that would lower it from what i understand barely.

gonna get out tomorrow we shall see how they do and feel, and hope not fall offf haha

Swing Weight Estimator 3000g x 0.1g Gram Pocket Digital Scale Jewelry Gold Silver Coin Kitchen Weighing | eBay there’s a thread somewhere i’ll try and find it that’s what some other people do.

here it is

https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/319221/homemade-swingweight-scale-for-a-poor-man#latest

I know this is quite delayed, but given the great help from all above I certainly feel I owe an update. Overall, my build went well. On top of the MP68's I also rebuilt my MP 18's (DG 120 Tour Issue X100). Couple of observations/learnings for the community.

1) Per the guidance above, I purchased the Mitchell Ruler. It worked great. NOTE FOR MIZUNO - Before rebuilding I measured a stock set of MP 18's I had (grip off) and the Mitchell ruler was dead on the standard Mizuno stated length specs for 6 of the 7 irons (4-PW). 9 iron was for some reason off by a little over 1/8 in but ill chalk that to manufacture tolerances. So for all the Mizuno rebuilders out there, Mitchell ruler seems to be a great tool.

2) I used Golf Works Tour Set Epoxy (the 2:1 Mix): It took a hell of a lot longer to gel and cure than stated, so we'll see what the finished product looks like in terms of strength/longevity. I had always used their quickset 1:1 mix and it always gel'ed/cured exactly within the stated durations, so was a bit concerned.

3) If you're using a cut off saw to trip to length - make sure you buy the correct abrasive blades/wheels. The ones with teeth certainly don't work...

4) Just another side comment on the Mitchell Ruler - while DEAD on with the Mizuno specs, it was certainly not even close at measuring my Ping Woods (G400). Compared to Ping STD lengths online it was a solid 1/2 to 3/4 in off. So assuming Ping does NOT use the 60* method for measuring. Left me a tad annoyed for some reason. Not sure at who or what though.

Thats a wrap. Thanks for all the help.

J

Thanks for the update! As soon as all the tools arrive, I’ll start my MP-33 rebuild. Looking forward to it.

Funnily enough, after reading countless threads on swingweight, MOI matching, length measuring, epoxy brands and shaft cutting, the thing I’m most afraid of is finishing the ferrules. Mind to show how yours look? Seems there’s a million ways to do this, but my practice hasn’t gone to well...

You should have seen a progressive change from the longest to the shortest club.

A typical set of irons with todays std specs has a #3 iron with 60* as lie angle. For that club, the Mitchell ruler and a ruler with variable lie angle will return the same length.

When we now go shorter, and the clubs actual lie becomes more up right, the club will "sink" lower and measure shorter on the Mitchell ruler vs the variable ruler. (the variable ruler sole plate "lift the club" and make it appear longer when lie is set to 64* than it does at 60*) That means our 36.00" #9 iron up at 63.50* lie angle will effectively be 1/8" shorter from OEM than if the same club is made from components using a Mitchell ruler....

This is the same 1/8" Mizuno has used as equalizer for sole shape and bounce, and still does,(they call it PIN Height), but lately they have added 2/8" of grip they later subtract, so todays Mizuno clubs is measured with a variable lie angle, including the grip to the edge of the cap, MINUS 3/8" = paper specs....thats means a un-gripped club, where 1/8" is used as "equalizer" for sole shape, bounce and lie angle

Thats interesting. Your explanation makes sense but I did not see that progressive change. On every club except the 9 iron, it was a dead on match (not even talking less than 1/8" increment variances) to the stated Mizuno stock length. And these were purchased through my club direct from Mizuno.

The funny thing with it all is that OEMs is NEVER spot on with lie angles on the club heads themselves, so i have asked myself many times, how can a variable lie angle ruler return the right play length, when the ruler is set right, but the club heads lie angle is off?..exactly, if the tolerance is plus minus 1* for lie (seen way more), we have a tolerance for lie angle who removes the "benefit" or "precision"of a variable lie angle ruler with 50%, and if the difference at 100% (60* to 64*) is 1/8", we now talk 1/16"....and then they add a tolerance for cut play length to plus minus 1/8" like Titleist has....makes no sense i my world when the tolerance is larger than resolution is...if 1/8" want matter then 1/16" would not matter either, so why use a variable lie angle ruler to start with?, its resolution is fully hidden by the tolerances accepted., its that simple ...thats why i think fixed lie angle rulers is the "best". Measuring and cutting itself is a craft, and if you dont know how to use the tools right you want make it right anyway.

Straight from the mouths at Mizuno - their length tolerance is +/- 1/8" which is pretty tight.

PING measures their woods differently, I don't remember how exactly but they always come up short on the Mitchell ruler.

its all in this tread, each OEM got a mail from me with questions about their measure standards, and their replies is posted in this treadhttps://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1789115/how-does-oems-measure-club-lengths