Does 1/4 inch really make a difference?

I know, this has probably been asked and answered, but I'm sheltering in place and can't answer the question with a real world test.

Facts: I bought a set of Nippon 950gh shafts on ebay. The seller represented that they were pulled from a set of 718 AP3s, standard length. I am installing them in a set of 710 AP1s, also standard length, so I figured they'd be plug and play (stock standard lengths are the same for both sets). The shafts arrived over the weekend, and comparing my pulled 5 iron shaft (finished length measured at 38", which is standard), the new 5 iron shaft is exactly 1/4 inches shorter.

I emailed the seller, and he confirmed that he ordered the AP3s standard length. So the only way the AP3 shafts could be 1/4" shorter than the AP1 shafts are if: (1) the hosel depth on the AP3 is 1/4" shorter than the AP1; (2) the bottom of bore to ground length on the AP3 is 1/4" greater, or (3) a combination of both factors.

I feel like I got a good deal on the shafts (they came with brand new tour velvet grips), so I am probably going to give them a whirl. Also, I might add that while I have always played standard length and lie clubs, I have been fitted in the past for standard length, 2 degrees flat, and one other time for -1/2", standard lie. The reason I point that out is because I know that shorter clubs will play effectively flatter, so this might not necessarily be a bad thing for me. I intend to build the set and swing weight it to D1 or D2 with tip weights, so swingweight won't be an issue.

I guess I'm just trying to talk myself into this. Does 1/4" short make that much of a difference? Thanks.

e

Too short is a issue we meet in the short end of the set, (9-PW) if it is present, for all the others, easier to hit to make a long story short.

Thanks Howard. And is there a good way to tell if -1/4” in the 9 iron and PW is too short for me?

You get uncomfortable, and want be able to make a good stance and make a good swing, thats why we move from 4/8" to 2/8 between clubs into wedge, but a GW is most often 4/8 shorter than the #9, and if you have a GW 2/8" shorter than your PW you can play without this issues to full swing, there is nothing to worry about here...you need a little more head weight if standard SW values is what fits you, but thats it.

Doubt you'd notice the 1/4" difference.

Thanks Howard. I’m 5’7” with orangutan length arms, so usually it’s the toe too high up at address that makes me uncomfortable.

By the way, any thoughts on whether the shafts are truly 1/4” short or whether the other factors could explain the discrepancy?

Then they might work out better for you. I would guess AP1s need longer shafts than AP3s, but its mostly just a guess

Did you dry fit with tip weights? Sometimes certain styles of tip weights add “length”. just a random thought.

maybe you measure different than titleist?

is the butt cap thicker on the new grips than your old?

just spit balling.

Hey, all great points.

First, the new shaft does not have a tip weight. The old shaft does. So that’s 1/16” of an inch (but I already accounted for that in my measurement of 1/4” short). Second, both shafts have tour velvet grips but I did notice that the grip cap on the new shaft is flatter than the grip cap on the old shaft. So that could be a little of the difference. But not a full 1/4”.

Also, both shafts came out of titleist clubs.

Here are a few pictures. I used a board to line up the grip ends of the shafts flush and then removed the board.

Hmmm, I have done a lot of shafting and reshafting over the years. Often not with not real good results. My advice is do not shaft the entire set. Shaft one club and try it out. If you really like it then you are good. Even so I would suggest pulling the grip and putting in an extension maybe go an inch over and test the club. Most likely it will not be very good. Try reducing the length slowly and see if there is a sweet spot that is better then the original setup. I have actually done this with some clubs and it works. I do have a skytrak though which helps some to see what the ball flight and distance look like. I do think that it is worth the extra time to fool around with the shaft length a little bit to see if you can make the club feel and work better. You could trim the butt some if the best spot is the first assembled length, of course then it is a little harder to go back up but doable.

From a physical standpoint, I think you’d be fine as it doesn’t sound like you’d really he pushing any limits. As you stated already, length may offset the lie. Howard is a bit advocator of 3/8” increments, brands like Bridgestone have been 1/4” short of “standard”, and you don’t really here of people having bad misfits from either.

From a mental standpoint, you never can tell. If for some reason you hit them not so well, even though it may not be a contributor to the cause, mentally, it may be hard to drop from your thoughts that they are slightly shorter.

I’m with the advice above too, shaft maybe three of them (short medium long iron) to test rather than building the set up completely. While you are doing that, you might as well build them up as test clubs, build then to a light SW, grab some lead tape, and take them out for a test while adding the tape till they feel right. If they work, tear them back down and build up with tip weights, etc along with the rest. Extra work, yes, but worth it IMO.

Rip off those grips, they dont have the same butt cap, so we cant judge the shaft inside correct, and Titleist specs is UN-Gripped

According to another tread here, there should only be 1/8 difference (AP3 has a BBGM thats 1/8" higher)

Grips have a Butt cap, and a Dome on top of that, and we normally dont include the Dome, so with grips on (not a good method here), you should place them so that the edge on both is in line, and never mind the dome who is different on this to grips. That will adjust the difference about 1/8" (less difference than you measure now)

Standard is not truly standard in the golf club arena. 1/4” might not be noticeable. I suggest getting lie/loft adjusted after installing. With long arms this length might improve your shots.

Would you consider soft stepping them to get the length back?

5' 7" with long arms and -1/4" might be perfect.

I'm 6' 1" with average length arms and I like standard (38" 5i) but +1/4" on 9 and wedges.

I say shaft up a long, mid, and 9 iron. See how they feel. Shorter length will also flatten effective lie angle, 1/4" not by much though.

My rule of "thumb" if I get iron shafts that would play shorter, is I put the shaft in the shortest club, PW in my case most of the time. I try it and if I am comfortable, then I try the longest club, and if both are good comfort wise I do the whole set. I do it in opposite long iron first and shortest iron second if the shafts I have are longer.

Your two most extreme in lengths in a set should tell you all you need to know on actual length. From there if you are comfortable but your direction is "off" use the sharpie test and labels from Howard to determine if your lie angle is off and then you can take care of that.

You guys are the best. All great suggestions.

I removed the 5 iron grip (the one with the dome, that’s my shaft and had the grip installed with air), and the new shaft is still about 1/8” shorter. The new shaft has no dome in the grip and the shaft is right up against it. There still must be some rubber in the cap, but I won’t know for sure unless I cut it off.

Net net, the shafts are at least 1/8” short, probably 1/4” short, 1/8” of which could be because of the BBTG being 1/8” greater on the AP3.

I’m waiting for some tip weights to arrive, so I’ll probably shaft up the 5 and PW this weekend. I can’t thank you guys enough for all of the help.

e

Rip off both grips to make a correct compare. If it ends up to be 1/8" or maybe 3/16" move on and dont even think of it, and keep in mind that OEMs (read Titleist) has a tolerance of 1/8" both ways, but dont tell about it.

When you get to the point of dry fitting them, do it without grip to a value 9 SWP above target so you dont get fooled by variables in grip weight or butt caps with or without a dome who can extend the club on the SW scale.

according to my wife it would take more than that to make a difference...don't know if I should be insulted or not

I doubt you would really notice 1/4" much and 1/8" at all. This situation demonstrates why I put the actual length of the shafts I am selling in my ads, not just that they were "standard" length in the clubs they were in.

Here’s a picture of the shafts with the grip on the longer shaft removed. Clearly the old shaft is at least 1/8” longer than the new shaft, maybe more depending on the thickness of the grip cap on the new shaft.

When I switched from Foot Joy Dry Joys to the Pro SL shoes I was 1/2" shorter in height and noticed no difference in ball striking.

I bought some ctaper pulls about 18 months ago and played them for a year. They were standard length but I decided to hard step them. I got swingweight up to what I like and they played just fine. You will likely notice the shorter length at address but it won't affect distance or dispersion.

Soft step is a great option if you want to be +1/4 as an experiment as well .. if you don't need the longest shaft .. you then get the bonus of the matching shaft in your GW

SS x 1 = 4 iron shaft into your 5 iron etc etc

GREAT IDEA PER ABOVE, do one club first as a tester

IMO - 1/4" shorter isn't likely to change much with your clubs, as the heads have mucho forgiveness. Just make sure grips are installed correctly. I've found some club builders are pretty sloppy about cutting lengths and subsequent grip installation. Hence, clubs come up varying lengths and opposed to proper OEM progression. The other considering is note where and how you normally grip the club. I naturally grip the club down 1/2". Last thought is if they are too short have extensions installed to exact shaft length then add grip butt cap to overall desired length of each club.

Yeah, I can always install 1/4” extensions but really didn’t want to destroy a brand new set of tour velvet grips for 1/4”. If the grips were blown on with air, it would be an easy decision.

And I don’t need the longest shaft so I could definitely soft step and butt trim to length, but do I really want to do that? Won’t that affect other things?

In my world the length of a five iron was nearly always 37 3/4. Seems lengths have crept up as well as lofts in the hunt for more 'distance'. So for me I would just shaft the heads with the 'new' shafts and play on. You will probably like them and hit them well. Good luck!

Soft stepping makes them slightly softer, but you do have the option to go SS1, and tip trim 2/8" to get them "standard" on play length (or what ever difference you found), even if its taper tips. That would also reduce soft stepping once to become SS-0.5