Is the handicap PCC working?

I've been curious as to how the new PCC would work this year. Figured my last round would have given a good indication, since it was a pretty full tee sheet at my club, and we had some pretty tough weather conditions (20-30 MPH winds with gusts over 40). Best round in our multi-group game was a 79 from a 2 cap.Looked on the GHIN app today, and there was no PCC adjustment at all.

I find it really hard to believe that the scoring average at my club wasn't well above average for the day.

Has anyone seen a PCC adjustment yet? And what conditions produced it?

Did you post on the same day you played?

Yep. Even looked at the the scores for other players in the GHIN app. No adjustments for anyone.

I’ve watched this too. And we had the same crazy wind Sunday. Solid 20 all day gusting 30 plus. Pins bent over and such.

but maybe a product of the times too. I’ve noticed that people aren’t posting. Nobody is. I know I said I didn’t feel right about posting during this here. But I haven’t expressed this to anybody at my club. So it’s of their own volition.

Weren't you on the handicap committee?

Yes.

I know in a subsequent post you mentioned you had looked at some other player's scores. What you need to do, if you really want to see what happened, is to review the score for every player who posted his (or her) score on the same day of play. Of course, you have to have admin access to GHIN to be able to see all of those records. What I've seen at my own home club is that a PCC was calculated on a single day this year so far. We've had some difficult days, yesterday the wind was up to about 3 clubs, the greens are fast, some really demanding pin positions, it was a tough day, but no PCC. Its a little surprising to me, but the PCC isn't intended to correct for small variations, its there for big ones.

Half-a$$ google attempt, but I see that you have to have at least 8 scores posted, and that "It will be imperative that players post scores immediately after play so the PCC will kick in when appropriate" - I wonder if not posting the day of is why we aren't seeing it? I've seen it once, on a full day, with (warning, being stereotypical here) "younger" golfers playing.

I wonder if you have to have at least 8 scores posted that day, since the handicaps adjust nightly? We actually had -1 PCC as it was playing pretty easy with soft conditions.

Playing Conditions Calculation (PCC) - World Handicap System | Oregon Golf Association

There's a little more information in Section 5.6 of the Handicap Rules here: Rules of HandicappingBut you're largely right, there MUST be at least 8 "acceptable" scores posted before the end of the day for a PCC to be considered. If you play today and post tomorrow, your score will not be considered when evaluating a PCC, but it WILL be adjusted by the PCC if there is one. The more scores posted, the more likely there is to be a PCC. But its really not likely to make a significant different in anyone's calculated handicap.

I am afraid I'm just not understanding the PCC. I know that we had at least 16 scores posted on the day in question from my buddies alone, plus we had a pretty full tee sheet at the club. If 20‐30 mph winds with gusts over 40 (not to mention no flags to aid in gauging the wind) don't produce a PCC, I am having a tough time imagining what conditions would be capable of generating a PCC.

The only thing I can think of is that tough conditions like that seem to have more impact on the scores of the lower handicaps. If the system is only using the overall average, that seems like a serious flaw.

You're only guessing at reasons; if the statistics from the day don't qualify for adjustment, there is no adjustment. It doesn't matter about the wind velocity or amount of rain, it's all based on the difference between"expected scores" and actual scores.

As @rogolf said, you have to see ALL of the scores before you make your own personal evaluation. Its all about the scores posted, and WHEN they are posted. Did you ask your 16 buddies when they posted? If it was after midnight, throw their scores out, they weren't considered. And check the other folks playing. Maybe they weren't as strongly effected as you were. And they have to be off by a bunch, not just by a bit. This isn't intended to bring every single day's scores back to "normal", its just intended to be a "nudge" in the direction towards normal.

Wondering same, played in some pretty unusual aka crappy conditions, never once seen PCC adjustment.

42 scores posted 2020 YTD from 4 courses, (4) with -1 (all same course) and (1) + 1 PCC.

(3) of the -1 happened this month during Corona while we have upside down cups and pins. Thinking there is a lot more putts being given.

The lone + 1 was from mid January. Probably cold and windy as my score was much higher than normal.

Have played in plenty of 15-20mph windy days that should have been +1 but didn't get it.

It could well be that not enough people are post their score the same day of play. I have yet to see a PCC adjustment on any of my posted scores, even though I have played in large groups 20+ guys where everyone struggled. I am on our handicap committee, and when we first discussed WHS, our pro said that PCCs would be quite infrequent. Apparently there has to be a significant discrepancy in a lot of scores for PCC to kick in.

58 scores ytd and none have a PCC adjustment. As we learned at the WHS seminar the PCC is not really about normalizing scores.Meaning it certainlyis not a daily occurrence being used. It seems to be more a way of defying good scores on ugly days-and vice versa.

I’m 35 scores into 2020 and no PCCs. Much ado about nothing.

Please help me understand how it would "defy a good score on an ugly day"? Seems to me that a good score on an ugly day would be appreciated, ie, it would likely be a counter for your handicap calculation, supporting the objective of achieving a lower handicap index.

Australia moved to the PCC calculation formula during the course of 2019, replacing our previous Daily Scratch Rating calculation system (even though the name didn't change until WHS launch here) and it has sharply reduced the number of adjustments, it's no more than 1 from 12-15 rounds currently on our club's numbers and there also appears to have been no downward adjustments for 6 months. PCC is clearly far less dynamic than what went before for us and even days of 30mph+ winds are commonly not delivering a PCC adjustment. So it appears to be a safe conclusion at the moment that the current calibration of the system is not reflecting the relative difficulty of the golf course.

That said, the fact that it is a single day average is a further moderating factor - here there is often little wind through to latter part of the morning, then about 5 hours of so of wind. So the first few hours of competition players get comparatively benign conditions (at least before our winter frosts hit). I believe that clubs here have the capacity to split the day into separate PCC calculations, and while we did that some years ago, I think few clubs do that any more.

Sorry @Rogolf. Spell check got me and I missed it. I was typing “defining “ and my iPad went with defying.

So basically it sounds like you are most likely to see an adjustment when the course plays especially "easy", versus when scores are abnormally high.

That's the only scenario that makes sense to me based on what I have observed so far.

I have not seen the "+" either, so I would agree anecdotally. I'm guessing that's a combo of people with vanity caps, not posting because they shot a bad round the first few times out, and fewer people playing with the conditions dictate high scores?

I have had 1 PCC adjustment in 43 rounds this year. It was on April 7. When I played that morning the temps ranged from 70 to 75 with wind 8-10mph. It got up to 84 that day with wind, at the most, at 14mph. My adjustment was -1 meaning the course played easier that day. Normally, for my score that day my differential would have been 4.3 but adjusted it was 5.3. Apparently the -1 to +3 is subtracted or added to the course rating, minus if it was easier and plus if more difficult.

You're right, and this is clearly indicated in 5.1 of the handicap rules. The addition/subtraction is done prior to the calculation for slope, so the change to the Differential will typically be less less than 1 (as long as the course Slope is greater than 113).Score Differential=(113 ÷ Slope Rating) x (adjusted gross score – Course Rating – PCC adjustment)

I've had one PCC -1 adjustment this year on my lowest round.

I thought I would see a+1 yesterday as I played in a storm but no luck haha.

I have posted 127 rounds this year. I have 3 -1 PCCs, 1 +1 PCC , and 1 +2 PCC.

I have posted 62 rounds under the new GHIN and just last week saw my second PCC adjustment. They have both been -1 and neither occurred under conditions that would strike me as unusual. Just happened to be some low scores posted those days, I guess.

Whether or not the PCC kicks in is based entirely on scores submitted for handicapping on that day. "Conditions" are irrelevant except for their impact on the scores submitted for handicapping.

I played a round in North jersey beginning of May, it was 15 - 20 mph winds and also snow. At some points the fairways and greens were covered in snow before it melted away and I do not see that score being adjusted. Makes no sense