Metal faces persimmon woods?

I came across an ebay listing for a Middleground driver (baseball bat and golf company from KY, could not confirm if they still make woods) that has a full metal face. I haven't seen this on any other persimmon woods before, do any of you have any knowledge about this club or metal faced persimmons in general?

Wow, that looks different! I've a Dean Byman wood (think it's laminate, but haven't stripped the paint off it) that had a full-face aluminium insert. Well, as it's full face, I suppose I can't really call it an insert. However, the aluminium is very thin, whereas the metal face on yours looks to be a few millimetres thick.

Edit: Bob Byman, not Dean Byman.

I think it may have been Lynx or maybe Browning that had some metal faced woods back in what I call the transition period between persimmon and steel. Now I do not know if those were persimmon or laminate. Macgregor did use some Aluminum inserts in the MT line in the mid and late 70s and some did come out of the custom shop with Aluminum inserts. I have a Custom 4 and 5 wood like that. I do know for a fact those came out of the custom shop because they were a part of my old man's stash. Found them in the back of his closet after he passed still in the box un hit. Knowing his history I have to say they were from the late 70s or 80 at the latest. Because I know he went on Ram Staff around 84 or so and retired in 85. I have played those woods in fact the 5 wood has a hook face from Hades and I call it "Hooky". I used to carry it when I played a course I knew I had a couple of absolute hook shots on.

I recall Middleground but never seen one of those. I have a guess what the abbreviation "FAAF" stands for.

I'd love to hear it. I feel like the first F might be full and the last one is probably face...

Interesting. Would love to see pics if you have some handy!

Your assumption is probably correct but I was thinking more along the lines of the Mac LFF driver.

Cleveland did a ti faced persimmon a while back, called it the pertaium launcher. I had one, not sure what the benefit was...lol.

Well I am not pic capable. I had trouble for a while before they changed the software--- but then again I am a computer klutz

Just speculating but maybe Full Aircraft Aluminum Face----- Note: From being in the scrap metal industry the last 7 years I have learned that there are several different types of Aircraft Aluminum

Yeah LFF came to mind @raggal62 but I couldn't figure out how that verbiage could work here lol

Louisville Golf had a persimmon driver for a while they called the Smart Ti. Essentially, a titanium insert across the entire face. They billed it as having a higher COR than straight persimmon. I don't know that it lasted too long.

I tried searching for it, but my Google Fu was not strong enough to score any hits.

Stu, According to Kaplan, MacGregor introduced aluminium or "Impact Wate" inserts in 1966. I have several examples / sets of MT's in golden oak and black finishes with these inserts.

However, you may not be surprised to learn, I also have another anomaly MacGregor I am trying to date - another Tommy Armour in fact. In my Ironmaster query you confirmed that MacGregor lost the rights to the TA name around 1968 and indeed the name is last shown in Kaplan in 1967.

I have a TA T693W in a honey finish with an aluminium insert. They do list TA 693's in 1967 but not T693's; they used 'H' to designate rubber grip that year and the finish was black or light rosewood. So what do I have? Could it be a refurbed / refinished '50's or a 1967 custom order?

Hoping you and the other Mac experts can share their wisdom?!

Pictures alongside a golden oak MT for reference. Both on stand by for team selection this year as soon as these restrictions are lifted.

Thanks and stay safe!

Foozle--- It could be any of the things you mentioned--- It could have been a custom order with leftover stamped heads. Are there any Serial Numbers on them? Back in those days there were real club craftsmen around extremely talented that could do anything. Good example I bought a beautiful Power Bilt Blonde driver around 79 or so that had beautiful grain and sat right to my eye. Only problem was it had a plastic insert and I liked the pressed fiber inserts. Really no problem I purchased it and took it down to a shop I knew and had the insert replaced. Like I said in those days you had some real craftsmen that could do some work. I have seen the Aluminum insert conversion on clubs besides Macgregor.

I have an example of fine craftsmanship so to speak. I have a set of 57 Velocitized Macgregor woods 1 , 2 ,3 ,4. The driver I guess something must have happened along it's life span. The other woods have the original key hole inserts but the driver has a hard plastic black one and I might add fitted perfectly. I do know for some reason that driver hits more solid than any other persimmon in my collection. I have been playing it all week. With roll out that thing is darn near as long as my modern Toyota on a stick. Makes one speculate on stuff like this--- Was it damaged in play at sometime in it's life or did someone have the conversion made for deliberate reasons? One good thing about it is it is not a perfect restoration and I do not fear hitting modern balls and damaging the insert. Part of the fun thing about messing with classic clubs for me is the speculation of it's history.

Stu, I appreciate the comments. I am with you when you say part of the fun of old clubs is learning or speculating on the history, it adds character to a club. I also like clubs with some "patina" as I am less worried about playing them and adding to their character! Playing is an essential part of the fun so I am not into wall hangers.

On the TA T693W, it has nice "straight" grain. It has been refurbished at some point - possibly even reshafted - as it has modern nylon rather than waxed whipping and the bore though shaft has a dowel plug in it. As far as I can tell, even in '66/'67, the aluminium insert was not standard spec on the TA models.

The serial number is still there; impossible to picture but looks to be 0506771?

The shaft is interesting. It features 4 close steps, 2 long steps, 4 close, 2 long, 4 close, 2 long, 4 close, 2 long. No shaft bands left but feels reg / firm. I am assuming that the end 1 digit refers to the (original) flex being firm.

Interesting club! Any thoughts / info welcome!

I have the right handed version of the same club. It has become my favorite club to hit it sounds good, feels solid, and is very accurate I hit 13 of 14 fairways one day.

Do you have any more information on it? When it was made or anything of the sort?

I'm guessing it was a mid 80s golf club. Mine has a graphite shaft. Have you played yours much yet?

Given the current conditions, I haven't. I'm excited to get out and see how it compares to the other persimmon woods I have.

Played 18 today with my middle ground driver set a new high 14 for 14 in fairways hit. Didn't score that well 87 but I was having so much fun off the tee.