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SIM driver guys - talk about it

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  • getitdailygetitdaily Members  3720WRX Points: 669Handicap: +.5Posts: 3,720 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #242

    I'm willing to bet that the right bias comes from the driver being really forgiving.

    Here's my hypothesis...

    The SIM MAX is very forgiving. This allows you to get more confident in swinging harder. Swinging harder leads to bad transitions, over the top moves, steep attack angle, open face...right miss.

    Now, the driver likely has a fade biased CoG. Every TM driver the last 4 years has. However, the hard right misses aren't because the CoG is 2mm toe side...

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  • jjohnson4jdjjohnson4jd Members  1WRX Points: 5Posts: 1 Starters
    Joined:  #243

    I know this is a SIM forum but I am looking at the a SIM or a M5 or M5 Tour. I don't know how credible it is but I heard The M5 provides about everything the M5 Tour does but it's a little more forgiving. I am a decent player and am just looking to pick up distance and continue with my accuracy. Not sure my swing speed but I would say my average drive is 270-275 with the Titleist 913 D3 and obviously it's lost a bit of its pop.

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  • getitdailygetitdaily Members  3720WRX Points: 669Handicap: +.5Posts: 3,720 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #244

    A lot of people, me included, have noted that m5 is slow compared to sim.

    Posted:
  • OknowsOknows Members  1295WRX Points: 123Posts: 1,295 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #245

    I’ve played the Max and been fit for a standard and have not noticed a right bias compared to the G400 Max I played previously. I miss right when I transition too fast and stay behind the ball too much, but when putting a good swing on, these go straight with a little movement either way based on strike location. Have a standard Sim on the way and am excited to get out on the course with it. The lower trajectory is huge for me.

    Posted:
    Taylormade SIM 9* w/ Diamana W 70
    Taylormade M6 15 w/ Proforce V2 8F5
    Taylormade M6 4H w/ KBS Hybrid
    Mizuno MP 18 MMC 5-PW w/ Nippon Modus 125x
    Mizuno S18 50* w/ Nippon Modus 125x
    Cleveland CBX 2.0 54* w/ DG TI s400
    Callaway MD4 58* w/ DG TI s400
    Cleveland Huntington Beach SOFT #11
    Taylormade TP5
  • DREWZER300DREWZER300 Members  99WRX Points: 72Handicap: 0.6Posts: 99 Fairways
    Joined:  #246

    I played the M5 can say the SIM is better overall for me. Sound/feel are identical to me, but I feel the SIM is just slightly more consistent. Having said that the M5 is still a phenomenal driver.

    Posted:
    Taylormade SIM 10.5 Ventus Black 7X
    Taylormade SIM 3W Ventus Black 8X
    Mizuno MP-20 HMB 2 Graphite Design AD-DI 95X
    Mizuno MP-20 MB 4-PW DG TI X100
    Cleveland RTX4 50MID/54MID/60MID DG TI S400
    Odyssey Protype PT10
    Titleist ProV1
  • manima1manima1 ChicagoMembers  838WRX Points: 166Handicap: 7.7Posts: 838 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #247



    When the SIM came out I was fully expecting to make the switch, reading about all the hype - but found nothing in it personally. Here's a thread on it below.


    Posted:
    M5 9.0->7.5 - Kuro Kage Dual Core 80tx 
    '16 M2HL 16.8 tour issued deep faced - Fujikura 8.3 TS
    zU45 18 degree - S400
    z745 4-PW - S400
    SM6 50.08F Steel Gray
    SM7 54.10S Raw
    SM7 60.12D Tour Chrome
    TM Spider X - Navy
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  •  SwooshLT SwooshLT Members  7408WRX Points: 429Handicap: 5Posts: 7,408 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #248

    My Issue is I'm low launch /low spin guy and M5 lofted up from 9* doesn't launch nearly as high as SIM 10.5* yet spin is very similar.....I've enjoyed the peak height with SIM ....M5 10.5* was like using a Ping driver.....

    Posted:
  • manima1manima1 ChicagoMembers  838WRX Points: 166Handicap: 7.7Posts: 838 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #249

    I will concede that my M5 took quite a while to get the settings "dialed in" for my swing and it may not be as much a universal fit for everyone. I do believe the TXG guys noted the SIM line was easier to fit people to than the M5/M6 line. My personal experience proved that my properly set-up M5 was every bit as good as the SIM.


    People also forget that just last year it won top driver in the **** list for High Swing Speeds - beating the likes of the 410LST, F9, and Epic line - all very fast in ball speed. So the narrative that M5 is "slow" is also a bit misleading. Think where people are finding it was slow or "slower" for them than the SIM line just means it wasn't a great fit and not so much that the M5 is a slow driver from a ballspeed standpoint.

    Posted:
    M5 9.0->7.5 - Kuro Kage Dual Core 80tx 
    '16 M2HL 16.8 tour issued deep faced - Fujikura 8.3 TS
    zU45 18 degree - S400
    z745 4-PW - S400
    SM6 50.08F Steel Gray
    SM7 54.10S Raw
    SM7 60.12D Tour Chrome
    TM Spider X - Navy
  • FlorisFloris Members  553WRX Points: 67Handicap: 5.2 (EURO)Posts: 553 Golden Tee
    Joined:  edited Jul 1, 2020 12:15pm #250

    I tend to be more consistent with the SIM than the Max. No clue as to why, it has the same shaft and same settings.

    I didn't swing it any different, the fitter didn't tell me what driver I was hitting at what point. He just gave me a new combination every few shots for me to try. (Tried Ventus, HZDRUS Geen in 60 and 70 grams with both the SIM and the Max)

    For me the Sim spinned about 300-400 less, launch and thus flight lower. Only missed right, while the Max was left and right.

    Posted:
    TaylorMade SIM 9º | Oban Kiyoshi White 4-flex
    TaylorMade SIM Max 3-15º | HZRDUS Smoke Green 6.5
    TaylorMade SIM Max 5-18º | HZRDUS Smoke Green 6.5
    Mizuno 919 Forged 4-6 (2º weak) | PX 6.0
    Mizuno 919 Tour 7-P (2º weak) | PX 6.0
    Mizuno T20 52º/4º, 56º/14º, 60º/6º | PX 6.0
    Scotty Cameron Futura X5w with SuperStroke PistolGT 2.0 CB
    Titleist ProV1x 2020
    Arccos 360
    Clickgear B3 / Mizuno BR-D3 Blue/Grey/White or Titleist StaDry Black/Grey/Orange-ish
  •  SwooshLT SwooshLT Members  7408WRX Points: 429Handicap: 5Posts: 7,408 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #251

    I never spoke on ballspeed......my concern was launch/spin......M5 is a solid head, just the loft I need just spun too much.....it's almost like TM added loft to the stated loft .....so the 9* really plays like a 10* if you get my drift

    Posted:
  • manima1manima1 ChicagoMembers  838WRX Points: 166Handicap: 7.7Posts: 838 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #252

    I agree they launch high to loft. I had to loft mine down quite a bit to get it to where I needed it. Kinda supports the notion that the SIM is a bit easier to fit out of the box.

    Posted:
    M5 9.0->7.5 - Kuro Kage Dual Core 80tx 
    '16 M2HL 16.8 tour issued deep faced - Fujikura 8.3 TS
    zU45 18 degree - S400
    z745 4-PW - S400
    SM6 50.08F Steel Gray
    SM7 54.10S Raw
    SM7 60.12D Tour Chrome
    TM Spider X - Navy
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  •  SwooshLT SwooshLT Members  7408WRX Points: 429Handicap: 5Posts: 7,408 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #253

    We both M3 and M5(solid heads I've LOVED) I couldn't look at the 10.5* loft ......twist face implication maybe? Whatever TM did to square the face up but still keep that great feature has been a blessing.....I'll get my 2nd round with SIM and it can be that make or break moment......

    Posted:
  • clinkinfoclinkinfo Members  880WRX Points: 205Posts: 880 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #254

    Look again at the carry and total with that spin, it’s not too low. Maybe he could go slightly up in loft to launch just a touch higher, but saying spin is too low looking at the carry and total is silly and old school

    Posted:
  • getitdailygetitdaily Members  3720WRX Points: 669Handicap: +.5Posts: 3,720 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #255

    Well, considering sub 2000 spin is just looking for knuckle balls that fall wildly out of the sky, yeah, all is good. You know, because carry numbers are all that matters.

    Considering that launch monitors have really only been mainstream for about 10 years, yeah...old school thinking. Who doesn't remember talking about sub 2000 spin in 1996?

    Posted:
  • clinkinfoclinkinfo Members  880WRX Points: 205Posts: 880 Golden Tee
    Joined:  edited Jul 2, 2020 1:22am #256

    no, sub 2000 spin can be ideal for some players, when matched with the right launch angle and speed. The ball flight (carry and roll) is clearly displayed and all calculated, both numbers are big for the ballspeed. 1600 will NOT fall out of the sky when launched at 165mph+ at 14+ degrees, sorry, it’s just physics, it doesn’t. In fact it would be about 112 feet high at the peak.

    heres’s the flight scope optimizer tool, go ahead and try to figure out a reason more spin in his case would be better, cause I don’t see it:

    https://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/

    Posted:
  • getitdailygetitdaily Members  3720WRX Points: 669Handicap: +.5Posts: 3,720 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jul 2, 2020 1:23am #257

    Since he followed up with other swings in the 2200-2500 range, the one at 1650 is ok. But at his ballspeed, living in the 1650 range would not be good. He would be much more erratic at 1650 than at 2200. If he's constantly around 1650 then he would need to loft up a bit to add spin...or live in the rough, trees, and hazards.

    So, the 1 good reason to not live at 1650...? Control

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  • clinkinfoclinkinfo Members  880WRX Points: 205Posts: 880 Golden Tee
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    Based on what? That’s BACKSPIN, not sidespin. You can hit 1600 rpm straight all day long, low backspin doesn’t generate sidespin.

    Posted:
  • getitdailygetitdaily Members  3720WRX Points: 669Handicap: +.5Posts: 3,720 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #259
    Posted:
  • clinkinfoclinkinfo Members  880WRX Points: 205Posts: 880 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #260


    Um...ok.  

    Respectfully, I think you might be trying to say this:

    In your experience, you have found low spin drivers hard to control, and you hit them left and right.  They require you to hit the center.  There IS some merit to that statement, because in order to make a club spin less, you move weight toward the lower front of the face.  That does tend to make a club far more punishing on miss-hits, and you will find it imparts more movement and more punishment when you miss-hit it (left,right, lower ball speeds).  And there are clubs out that let you simply adjust “spin” by moving weight back and forward, SIM is not one.

    So, that’s not the situation here.  This is a club that doesn’t really allow much change in weight front to back on the head (granted, less a bit of fiddling with the left to right slider being behind the ball).  So it “is what it is” in terms of MOI forgiveness and front/rear weight.  So you will not really change the forgiveness of the head by “adding” spin, since there’s no weight you can slide back to simply add spin, you can only add spin by adding loft. He’s already launching at 14 degrees, so adding loft back will add not just spin, but launch angle as well.  And in his case, you probably don’t want to add those things because he would drop distance, for no real forgiveness gain.

    Again, the 1600 is fine/good. If he could get it every time, I’m sure the results would make him very happy. Launching higher with more spin, Who knows, that might make him happier too, it would be a shorter walk from the tee box.

    Posted:
  • ValtielValtiel Konica-Minolta Bizhub Members  3741WRX Points: 1,769Handicap: 1.7Posts: 3,741 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #261

    I think your followup post started to touch on this, but I think the whole thing that @getitdaily was arguing was related to the overall dynamic range you can expect when it comes to spin and mishits. If you were to "optimize" a setup to achieve 1,600 spin on center strikes then that would be dangerous. Axis tilt is what creates flight curvature and the less spin you have, the less axis tilt is necessary to send the ball left/right. A driver spinning 1,600 out of the center will easily drop 500+ rpm in a hurry if the strike strays towards the toe, and that is violent duck hook territory. This is why low spin is considered unstable. Not just because the spin is low, but because a "low spin environment" in terms of driver setup becomes more volatile on mishits.

    The guy posting his screenshots however seemed to be spinning it around 2,200 on center strikes, which is great. The 1,600 spin with 13* launch was likely a high strike, so it wouldn't dip much lower than that and thus nothing really needs to be done to get that number up.

    Posted:
    Mizuno ST190 9.5* Diamana X'17 70XX || Taylormade M1 430 8.5* Tensei Pro Orange V2 70TX
    Titleist 915FD 15* Kuro Kage 80XTS || Taylormade RSI UDI 16* Fujikura Motore Speeder HB 9.8 Tour-Spec X
    Titleist 915FD 18* Kuro Kage 90XTS || Titleist 818H1 18.25* Diamana Kai'li s103x Prototype 
    Callaway X-Forged UT 20* Kuro Kage XT 100TX Hybrid
    Callaway X-Forged UT 23* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
    Bridgestone J40 DPC 5i-7i 27*- 35* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
    Bridgestone J40 CB 8i-PW 39*- 48* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
    Vokey Mild Raw 8620 54* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
    Vokey SM6 58* Oil Can Low Bounce K-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
    Vokey Special 61* Black Oxide V-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
    Scotty Cameron Newport Tour Red Dot

    WITB Thread
  •  SwooshLT SwooshLT Members  7408WRX Points: 429Handicap: 5Posts: 7,408 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #262

    Six over and 4 over......making nothing on the greens......But SIM has giving me confidence and consistency without massive distance gains.....less fluctuations of distance; more predictable distance......tee height has some determination on flight but I'm seeing easier launch......need more time with this club.....for research 


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  •  SwooshLT SwooshLT Members  7408WRX Points: 429Handicap: 5Posts: 7,408 Titanium Tees
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    Adding to this thread.......I'm truly blown away with "toe strikes" .......I feel it out there but flight doesn't give it away......not sure why a slower CHS guy is success with the least forgiving head.....not knocking the results!

    Posted:
  • OknowsOknows Members  1295WRX Points: 123Posts: 1,295 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #264

    Finally got my Sim dialed in and decided to really give it a go at the range. I’ve had so much inconstancy off the tee that I have subconsciously slowed my swing down. I swing my 6 iron around 90 mph and my SS with driver probably hovers a hair over 100 lately. That’s a problem. Decided to try to give a few a ride today and I feel like I hit the ball so much better. Easing up, I tend to miss to the right because I leave the face open. Hit much more of a draw going after it. Playing tomorrow and have already earmarked a couple holes to let loose on. Just an awesome driver.

    Posted:
    Taylormade SIM 9* w/ Diamana W 70
    Taylormade M6 15 w/ Proforce V2 8F5
    Taylormade M6 4H w/ KBS Hybrid
    Mizuno MP 18 MMC 5-PW w/ Nippon Modus 125x
    Mizuno S18 50* w/ Nippon Modus 125x
    Cleveland CBX 2.0 54* w/ DG TI s400
    Callaway MD4 58* w/ DG TI s400
    Cleveland Huntington Beach SOFT #11
    Taylormade TP5
  • enfuegoenfuego Members  163WRX Points: 79Posts: 163 Fairways
    Joined:  #265

    Playing Sim 8 in upright, weight neutral, stock diamana s+ 60x. Hit it straight and can shape both ways. Coming from a g410+ tour 65x I gained 15 yards from lowering the spin with the sim, also plays much better into the wind. Tried a ventus black 6x and when I go after it the feel is incredible and performs well. My fairway finding swing just wants to go right as I feel like the ventus black 6x plays stiffer than other xstiff I've had success with. Might try to sell the 6x and find a 6s.

    Posted:

    Taylormade SIM Driver 8* / Fujikura Ventus Black 6x

    Taylormade SIM Rocket 3w 14* / Fujikura Ventus Blue 6s

    Taylormade SIM 5w 19* / Diamana S+ 75s

    Callaway Apex CF19 Irons 4-AW / Dynamic Gold TI x100

    CBX2 Wedges 54*, 60* / Dynamic Gold TI s400

    Scotty Cameron 2012 Select Newport / Matador Grip (blacked out)

    Taylormade TP5x


    Crossline Oversize - Woods / Tour Velvet Midsize - Irons & Wedges

  • gambitgambit Members  4464WRX Points: 267Posts: 4,464 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #266

    SIM 9° with Tensei Pro Orange has been great. Head came in at 197 so added an extra 8g weight a little toward the toe side and my strikes have been much more consistent. Not sure if it’s longer than my SIM Max 10.5° with DI. I hit both of them similarly high which I thought was weird.

    Posted:

    SIM 9 / Tensei Pro Orange 60 TX

    SIM 3/5 Woods / Tensei Pro Blue 70/80 TX

    Tour Issue Adams Pro Mini 23 / AD DI 95x

    Ping Blueprints 5-P / Steelfiber i110S

    Ping Glide Forged 50-54-60 / Steelfiber i125S

    Byron Morgan DH89

    Titleist Linksmaster

  •  SwooshLT SwooshLT Members  7408WRX Points: 429Handicap: 5Posts: 7,408 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #267

    Could PO and Xtra weight cause the increase in launch/trajectory?

    Posted:
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  •  SwooshLT SwooshLT Members  7408WRX Points: 429Handicap: 5Posts: 7,408 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #268

    THEME SONG WHEN HEADCOVER COMES OFF!



    https://youtu.be/gEaqNTu283w

    Posted:
  • MalcMalc Members  301WRX Points: 75Posts: 301 Greens
    Joined:  #269

    How many g's is the Sim track weight and what weight are the M5 ones, which people say fit the Sim head.

    Posted:
  • Popeye64Popeye64 Members  1178WRX Points: 321Handicap: .2Posts: 1,178 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #270

    I have the SIM 9.0 and if it wasn't for the prototype shaft having a TM tip I would not have bought it.

    It has been the most consistent driver I've had maybe ever. I can fade it or draw it with ease. Its been surprisingly forgiving on less than perfe t contact as well. My driving average is up almost 7 yards mainly because they are straight or actually where im aiming.

    I have the weight closer to the heel and the adapter set at 9.0 standard.

    How much of this combo is the head or the shaft i don't know but I could care less.


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  • shaolingolfershaolingolfer Members  201WRX Points: 112Posts: 201 Fairways
    Joined:  #271

    It take me 2 months from Sim Max to Sim, diamante to pro 2.0. Now the Sim 10.5 lower to 9.75 with custom weight, 6 gram heavier than stock slightly on the toe side is finally dialed in, it is longer and straighter than my TS2 and still able to move it both way.

    Posted:
    TM Sim Max 12, Diamana Stiff
    Titleist 16.5 TS2, GD AD TP 6S
    Callaway Apex 19 5 Hybrid Project X Cataylst 70 6.0
    Callaway Mavrik 5 Hybrid Project X Cataylst 70 6.0
    Callaway Mavrik 3 Hybrid Project X Cataylst 70 6.0
    Srixon Z765, Modus 120 stiff.
    Taylor Made 50, 56  Fe2O3
    Callaway 60 PM Grind Tour Grey.
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