I'm willing to bet that the right bias comes from the driver being really forgiving.
Here's my hypothesis...
The SIM MAX is very forgiving. This allows you to get more confident in swinging harder. Swinging harder leads to bad transitions, over the top moves, steep attack angle, open face...right miss.
Now, the driver likely has a fade biased CoG. Every TM driver the last 4 years has. However, the hard right misses aren't because the CoG is 2mm toe side...
I know this is a SIM forum but I am looking at the a SIM or a M5 or M5 Tour. I don't know how credible it is but I heard The M5 provides about everything the M5 Tour does but it's a little more forgiving. I am a decent player and am just looking to pick up distance and continue with my accuracy. Not sure my swing speed but I would say my average drive is 270-275 with the Titleist 913 D3 and obviously it's lost a bit of its pop.
A lot of people, me included, have noted that m5 is slow compared to sim.
I’ve played the Max and been fit for a standard and have not noticed a right bias compared to the G400 Max I played previously. I miss right when I transition too fast and stay behind the ball too much, but when putting a good swing on, these go straight with a little movement either way based on strike location. Have a standard Sim on the way and am excited to get out on the course with it. The lower trajectory is huge for me.
I played the M5 can say the SIM is better overall for me. Sound/feel are identical to me, but I feel the SIM is just slightly more consistent. Having said that the M5 is still a phenomenal driver.
When the SIM came out I was fully expecting to make the switch, reading about all the hype - but found nothing in it personally. Here's a thread on it below.
My Issue is I'm low launch /low spin guy and M5 lofted up from 9* doesn't launch nearly as high as SIM 10.5* yet spin is very similar.....I've enjoyed the peak height with SIM ....M5 10.5* was like using a Ping driver.....
I will concede that my M5 took quite a while to get the settings "dialed in" for my swing and it may not be as much a universal fit for everyone. I do believe the TXG guys noted the SIM line was easier to fit people to than the M5/M6 line. My personal experience proved that my properly set-up M5 was every bit as good as the SIM.
People also forget that just last year it won top driver in the **** list for High Swing Speeds - beating the likes of the 410LST, F9, and Epic line - all very fast in ball speed. So the narrative that M5 is "slow" is also a bit misleading. Think where people are finding it was slow or "slower" for them than the SIM line just means it wasn't a great fit and not so much that the M5 is a slow driver from a ballspeed standpoint.
I tend to be more consistent with the SIM than the Max. No clue as to why, it has the same shaft and same settings.
I didn't swing it any different, the fitter didn't tell me what driver I was hitting at what point. He just gave me a new combination every few shots for me to try. (Tried Ventus, HZDRUS Geen in 60 and 70 grams with both the SIM and the Max)
For me the Sim spinned about 300-400 less, launch and thus flight lower. Only missed right, while the Max was left and right.
I never spoke on ballspeed......my concern was launch/spin......M5 is a solid head, just the loft I need just spun too much.....it's almost like TM added loft to the stated loft .....so the 9* really plays like a 10* if you get my drift
I agree they launch high to loft. I had to loft mine down quite a bit to get it to where I needed it. Kinda supports the notion that the SIM is a bit easier to fit out of the box.
We both M3 and M5(solid heads I've LOVED) I couldn't look at the 10.5* loft ......twist face implication maybe? Whatever TM did to square the face up but still keep that great feature has been a blessing.....I'll get my 2nd round with SIM and it can be that make or break moment......
Look again at the carry and total with that spin, it’s not too low. Maybe he could go slightly up in loft to launch just a touch higher, but saying spin is too low looking at the carry and total is silly and old school
Well, considering sub 2000 spin is just looking for knuckle balls that fall wildly out of the sky, yeah, all is good. You know, because carry numbers are all that matters.
Considering that launch monitors have really only been mainstream for about 10 years, yeah...old school thinking. Who doesn't remember talking about sub 2000 spin in 1996?
no, sub 2000 spin can be ideal for some players, when matched with the right launch angle and speed. The ball flight (carry and roll) is clearly displayed and all calculated, both numbers are big for the ballspeed. 1600 will NOT fall out of the sky when launched at 165mph+ at 14+ degrees, sorry, it’s just physics, it doesn’t. In fact it would be about 112 feet high at the peak.
heres’s the flight scope optimizer tool, go ahead and try to figure out a reason more spin in his case would be better, cause I don’t see it:
Since he followed up with other swings in the 2200-2500 range, the one at 1650 is ok. But at his ballspeed, living in the 1650 range would not be good. He would be much more erratic at 1650 than at 2200. If he's constantly around 1650 then he would need to loft up a bit to add spin...or live in the rough, trees, and hazards.
So, the 1 good reason to not live at 1650...? Control
Based on what? That’s BACKSPIN, not sidespin. You can hit 1600 rpm straight all day long, low backspin doesn’t generate sidespin.
Oi. Have fun dude.
Respectfully, I think you might be trying to say this:
In your experience, you have found low spin drivers hard to control, and you hit them left and right. They require you to hit the center. There IS some merit to that statement, because in order to make a club spin less, you move weight toward the lower front of the face. That does tend to make a club far more punishing on miss-hits, and you will find it imparts more movement and more punishment when you miss-hit it (left,right, lower ball speeds). And there are clubs out that let you simply adjust “spin” by moving weight back and forward, SIM is not one.
So, that’s not the situation here. This is a club that doesn’t really allow much change in weight front to back on the head (granted, less a bit of fiddling with the left to right slider being behind the ball). So it “is what it is” in terms of MOI forgiveness and front/rear weight. So you will not really change the forgiveness of the head by “adding” spin, since there’s no weight you can slide back to simply add spin, you can only add spin by adding loft. He’s already launching at 14 degrees, so adding loft back will add not just spin, but launch angle as well. And in his case, you probably don’t want to add those things because he would drop distance, for no real forgiveness gain.
Again, the 1600 is fine/good. If he could get it every time, I’m sure the results would make him very happy. Launching higher with more spin, Who knows, that might make him happier too, it would be a shorter walk from the tee box.
I think your followup post started to touch on this, but I think the whole thing that @getitdaily was arguing was related to the overall dynamic range you can expect when it comes to spin and mishits. If you were to "optimize" a setup to achieve 1,600 spin on center strikes then that would be dangerous. Axis tilt is what creates flight curvature and the less spin you have, the less axis tilt is necessary to send the ball left/right. A driver spinning 1,600 out of the center will easily drop 500+ rpm in a hurry if the strike strays towards the toe, and that is violent duck hook territory. This is why low spin is considered unstable. Not just because the spin is low, but because a "low spin environment" in terms of driver setup becomes more volatile on mishits.
The guy posting his screenshots however seemed to be spinning it around 2,200 on center strikes, which is great. The 1,600 spin with 13* launch was likely a high strike, so it wouldn't dip much lower than that and thus nothing really needs to be done to get that number up.
Six over and 4 over......making nothing on the greens......But SIM has giving me confidence and consistency without massive distance gains.....less fluctuations of distance; more predictable distance......tee height has some determination on flight but I'm seeing easier launch......need more time with this club.....for research
Adding to this thread.......I'm truly blown away with "toe strikes" .......I feel it out there but flight doesn't give it away......not sure why a slower CHS guy is success with the least forgiving head.....not knocking the results!
Finally got my Sim dialed in and decided to really give it a go at the range. I’ve had so much inconstancy off the tee that I have subconsciously slowed my swing down. I swing my 6 iron around 90 mph and my SS with driver probably hovers a hair over 100 lately. That’s a problem. Decided to try to give a few a ride today and I feel like I hit the ball so much better. Easing up, I tend to miss to the right because I leave the face open. Hit much more of a draw going after it. Playing tomorrow and have already earmarked a couple holes to let loose on. Just an awesome driver.
Playing Sim 8 in upright, weight neutral, stock diamana s+ 60x. Hit it straight and can shape both ways. Coming from a g410+ tour 65x I gained 15 yards from lowering the spin with the sim, also plays much better into the wind. Tried a ventus black 6x and when I go after it the feel is incredible and performs well. My fairway finding swing just wants to go right as I feel like the ventus black 6x plays stiffer than other xstiff I've had success with. Might try to sell the 6x and find a 6s.
Taylormade SIM Driver 8* / Fujikura Ventus Black 6x
Taylormade SIM Rocket 3w 14* / Fujikura Ventus Blue 6s
Taylormade SIM 5w 19* / Diamana S+ 75s
Callaway Apex CF19 Irons 4-AW / Dynamic Gold TI x100
CBX2 Wedges 54*, 60* / Dynamic Gold TI s400
Scotty Cameron 2012 Select Newport / Matador Grip (blacked out)
Crossline Oversize - Woods / Tour Velvet Midsize - Irons & Wedges
SIM 9° with Tensei Pro Orange has been great. Head came in at 197 so added an extra 8g weight a little toward the toe side and my strikes have been much more consistent. Not sure if it’s longer than my SIM Max 10.5° with DI. I hit both of them similarly high which I thought was weird.
SIM 9 / Tensei Pro Orange 60 TX
SIM 3/5 Woods / Tensei Pro Blue 70/80 TX
Tour Issue Adams Pro Mini 23 / AD DI 95x
Ping Blueprints 5-P / Steelfiber i110S
Ping Glide Forged 50-54-60 / Steelfiber i125S
Byron Morgan DH89
Could PO and Xtra weight cause the increase in launch/trajectory?
THEME SONG WHEN HEADCOVER COMES OFF!
How many g's is the Sim track weight and what weight are the M5 ones, which people say fit the Sim head.
I have the SIM 9.0 and if it wasn't for the prototype shaft having a TM tip I would not have bought it.
It has been the most consistent driver I've had maybe ever. I can fade it or draw it with ease. Its been surprisingly forgiving on less than perfe t contact as well. My driving average is up almost 7 yards mainly because they are straight or actually where im aiming.
I have the weight closer to the heel and the adapter set at 9.0 standard.
How much of this combo is the head or the shaft i don't know but I could care less.
It take me 2 months from Sim Max to Sim, diamante to pro 2.0. Now the Sim 10.5 lower to 9.75 with custom weight, 6 gram heavier than stock slightly on the toe side is finally dialed in, it is longer and straighter than my TS2 and still able to move it both way.
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