The Unofficial Persimmon Era Ball Thread

I've seen more talk here lately in different threads about which type of ball persimmon players use or what type new players to the classic persimmon game should be using. I thought we could start a thread that could serve as a database or reference for players to discuss which balls work well or not so well with persimmon woods.

Personally, I've tried nearly every type of ball I could find with my persimmon woods. $20 a double dozen Wilson Zips to $50 a dozen Pro V1's. 100 compression, 90 compression, low compression, no compression. Urethane, Surlyn, and Balata covered. Wound and solid. I've tried a ton. Now, my methods are not scientific. I've just tried a lot of different types of balls and have observed which works and which one don't. So what is the best ball for persimmon?

First, it's best to look to back at the balls that were actually played back when persimmon and laminate woods were the only woods in the game. Balata covered wound balls were the ball of choice for any serious golfer. Balata balls had a very soft feel and very high spin rates. A slice was made even more pronounced by the spin of a balata ball. That same spin is needed to keep the ball airborne with a persimmon driver. The biggest change in equipment in the past 25 years have been the small 200 cc driver to the 460cc behemoth and from the wound balata ball to the urethane covered solid ball. The solid urethane ball is perfect for oversized modern driver as they are lower spinning. The launch of the Pro V1 pretty much had every other manufacturer following with low spinning, solid core urethane balls.

Here is an interesting article from 20 years ago about the way the Pro V1 changed the game. The Best Golf Ball Ever?

A 1986 article discusses how Titleist's change of the dimple pattern modernized the ball to that point.

IN PURSUIT OF THE PERFECT GOLF BALL

So if we are looking for a high spinning, soft feeling ball, what are the modern persimmon players options? Well, you can buy New Old Stock balata's off eBay but they are quite pricey. Another consideration is how much performance has a wound ball lost after sitting for 20, 30, even 40 years? So how about a modern low compression urethane ball? Well, one thing I've realized is that while a balata ball has a soft feel at impact, it is actually a high compression ball, usually either 90 or 100 compression. It's the cover that gives the soft feel, while the soft feel of a modern ball is the lower compression. I've had my longest persimmon drives with higher compression balls, namely the Vice Pro Plus and Titleist Pro V1. The feel of these balls off the face of a persimmon is not as nice as nice as a low compression ball though, and while I had my longest drives with them they aren't a very consistent flyer with persimmon as they are lower spinning. If these balls were high spinning off the driver they would be perfect for us persimmon junkies.

The Wilson Zip with its zero compression seems to spin pretty good off the persimmon face but doesn't seem to want to fly as far. The higher compression always flies farther. So were is that Goldilocks ball? The ball that is just right? Personally, I think wound balls are the way to go. Yes, the newest ones are 20 years old now but the spin really helps with distance off the persimmon head. And it doesn't have to be balata, I've tried many of the early 2000 balls that were in that transition period, urethane cover, wound core, and have had great success. Balls like the Titleist DT Wound, Professional 90 and 100, Maxfli A10, Slazenger 420, etc, all seem to play really well.

So, some balls I've had good luck with and would recommended persimmon players try

Pro V1 and Pro V1x- high compression but low spin

Vice Pro Plus- high compression but low spin

Bridgestone Tour B X

Wilson Zip -low compression but higher spin

NOS Balata's - high spin, high compression, soft feel

NOS surlyn or urethane wound balls - high spin, high compression, feel dependent on cover

And some that Ive had no luck with at all

Callaway Chrome Soft

Top Flite Gamer Urethane

Kirkland Signature 3-piece

Bridgestone RXS

Please respond with the balls that have worked for you and the ones that haven't. Id love to get a list going were we can compare notes with each other regarding ball performance with our persimmon woods.

The NOS balatas can be a mixed bag depending on what they are and how they were stored. I've had some that are dead off the club and out of round after one hit and I used a Maxfli HT100 recently and it was as good as the day it was made. A few weeks back I saw the end result of the current Mid Am champ hitting an old Slazenger B51 with driver and the ball was flat on one side after that one hit. Of the current balls I haven't found anything that comes close to the spin of a balata off the tee or with wedges. Let's be honest, the current crop of premium balls have the spin characteristics of a 1995 Pinnacle with driver. End results differ between players as well. My son uses a ProV1 with one of my Mac 653 drivers and kills it with a great ball flight, I don't have enough clubhead speed to get that flight. Friend of mine played with a guy Friday who was using a Cleveland Classic and bombing it, he tried the driver out and couldn't get it in the air. He's a scratch marker who plays a lot of vintage and hickory golf so he's no mug. I've had better luck with the earlier solid balls as they don't degrade like the old rubber bands in a wound ball do. I tried an old Tour Edition the other day, that was fun with the wedges.

All the low compression balls are ok, TM Project A, Super Softs and I find the Wilson Duo's pretty good, not a lot of spin with the irons but softer feel off the driver. I keep thinking that there are so many different balls out there that surely there is a market for a spinner ball that people who like to play older gear would buy. I'd trade a few yards off the tee for a bit more spin. Evidently there is a Mizuno ball that is very spinny but I haven't tried it.

Sounds like balls that spin are good to use with Persimmon. I have not been hitting any of my persimmon, so I can't suggest a ball that is better than others.

It also may depend if you are a high or low ball hitter.

I think Balata balls will be too dead to be fun and they are shorter even if made today. It would be fun to compare though.

When I used to play with persimmon, I was using balata or surlyn wound balls. As far as hurting the driver, I never saw that, even with range balls. Maybe I was hitting the faceplate

most of the timer. I also have some custom made persimmons that have poured epoxy faceplates, that are solid, plus the wood is very good.

Of the modern crop, the Titleist DT TruSoft are pretty good. Going back in time the Maxfli HT (90 comp for me) is a great balata ball, but the Titleist Professional (wound, with elastomer cover) might be my favourite ball ever.

Relevant and fun. I have often wondered how the rubber is wound into such a near-spherical shape. Alas these winding machines move too fast...

Remember everyone's swing speed and AOA are different. What I am saying in this case everyone hits up on the ball at a different angle of the arc. DJ and myself had a discussion a while back about golf balls with persimmon. I did not think my SS was that great but it must be better than I think. I have absolutely no problem launching Pro Vs or Pro V 1s or any of the Snell balls for that matter with persimmon. Now this is where it gets tricky and shows everyone is different. With persimmon and modern metals too I get more distance with the softer balls than I do the Pro V series. What I think it is for me is the softer balls compress more and stay on the face longer. Now I will issue one warning about hitting modern balls with the pressed fiber faced drivers. Some of them can destroy the face. I have several Izette drivers and FW woods I refuse to hit any modern ball with because they have the pressed fiber inserts. Now my beloved Mac Velocitized I will hit anything with because somewhere in it's life the insert has been replaced with a hard plastic one. And that old driver is one solid piece of persimmon.

As far as balls go my all time favorite hands down was the Balata HT-100 my second was the balata Slazengers ( US sized)

Modern balls for me are the Srixon Soft Feels , The Dunlop Soft Fli and believe it or not TM Project A. Duos and Wilson 50s I can take or leave

The sleeper ball that I found by accident is the Lady Bridgestone the one with the blue writing

Another new ball I have found that shows potential are believe this or not are the Spalding True Soft sold at Wal Mart and on line. A friend of mine has been playing them and gave me a sleeve yesterday. They are quite a bit longer off my metal driver and I spin them real good. Outstanding feel off the irons and putter. I was hoping to play a vintage round today to test today but we have had a bunch of storms in fact it is storming now so I guess it is a wash out

There are golf balls sold in the US under the Spalding brand? I had no idea. Can you link me a way to buy them? I tried looking on the Walmart site and couldn't find any.

They evidently just started selling them because I have not heard of them until the other day--- FWIW I could not find them on the Wally Mart site myself but found them on Rock Bottom Golf. Sorry I do not know how to do that fancy link up stuff

Thanks for starting this thread Deejaid. I'm a newbie to persimmon woods, as you know, so I'll be using this thread as a resource for sure.

I played my first round with my Macgregor Velocitized persimmon woods yesterday. I used Chrome Soft balls, and they seemed to do okay. However, it was my first round so I have nothing to compare to yet. I'll be experimenting with various models also and share my results with you guys.

Take care fellas,

Hit em good

Chrome Softs were my ball of choice with my modern clubs so they were the first ball I tried with my classic woods as well. In my experience a low compression ball with a soft cover doesn’t fly as well as with a low compression ball with a had surlyn cover or a high compression ball with a soft urethane cover like a Pro V1.

Today I played my first Persimmon wood retro round ...Since the mid 80's I have had high modulus carbon or metal heads in my bags....

I used a TM project (a) . Felt o.k off the woods , but flight was low. I chalked it up to old age , loss of speed. Luckily our fairways have finally firmed up , and it was windy...low with roll was a good thing....

I have 2 sealed five gallon plastic paint buckets full balatas and wound balls .... Left overs from the 90"s ...All in good condition. but probably a little stale... Back in the day I read somewhere those balls started loosing their pop after just a couple months on the shelf, and just days soaking in water....I will experiment with them in my future rounds.....

Glad I kept my roundness gauge, divot tool combo from yesteryear.....

I have hundreds of slightly-imperfect balatas in my two shag bags, and for new balatas I have about one dozen dozen, mostly Titleist Tour Balata 100, 90 and Professionals. I only use them on special occasions when I tee it up with persimmon. Otherwise, for casual persimmon play I use balls from my shag bag, and they work just fine. Don't forget that if you play balatas, you must have with you a ball rounding tool to check if the ball is round.

When I started playing golf, I wanted to give persimmon a shot. I was in the pro shop at Davis GC near Sacramento and the pro was Mark Hodges. I had a talk with him on using persimmon woods and I asked him which balls to use. He advised me in the strongest terms that I should use three-piece wound balls, and that I have to know the balls on an individual basis. Titleist tour balatas, yes. Pinnacle Gold, no way, Royal Maxfli, yes. Top Flite XL, no way. Titleist DT, yes. Slazenger balatas, yes. Slazenger distance, no. Nothing Top Flite. Molitor, no. Maxfli HT, yes. Those of you who played golf in 1990 know exactly what I mean. He told me that a two-piece ball will have more likelihood to damage the face of a persimmon wood because the compression is too hard against wood, especially when missed off center.

I'm old school. If you play persimmon, you play with balata. You might be a club shorter, but so what? Use an extra club. The feel of chipping and putting with balata is heavenly, let alone striking them on the middle of forged musclebacks or on the screws with persimmon. Nothing feels better.

Good topic, one close to my heart

Just to answer your initial list with my own experiences:

So, some balls I've had good luck with and would recommended persimmon players try

Pro V1 and Pro V1x- high compression but low spin → Agreed. These are OK with persimmon.

Vice Pro Plus- high compression but low spin → Never tried

Bridgestone Tour B X → Works OK with persimmon. Bit hard feeling. I found the Tour BS to be slightly better

Wilson Zip -low compression but higher spin → Never tried.

NOS Balata's - high spin, high compression, soft feel → condition can vary, but great if they are in good condition

NOS surlyn or urethane wound balls - high spin, high compression, feel dependent on cover → Agreed

And some that Ive had no luck with at all

Callaway Chrome Soft → Me too. Felt like a rock

Top Flite Gamer Urethane → never tried

Kirkland Signature 3-piece → never tried

Bridgestone RXS → never tried

I have also used a ball called a Titleist Tour Soft, which I found on the course, and that was not too bad. I've also used Wilson DX2 Softs quite a bit, which are low compression. They feel OK off persimmon, but I don't think they go that far.

Went out tonight for a twilight 9 (actually played 10) with my Ping Karsten 1 irons and woods and I decided to play some NOS balata’s I had. On many holes I also hit a modern Wilson Zip off the tee to see the difference in distance, and really those old balata’s weren’t too much shorter, perhaps 10 yards or so. The real eye opener for me was the gear effect of the bulge and roll of the woods combined with the high spin balata ball. A ball would start out right and come back towards the middle a bit, while the modern ball started out right and stayed right.

It was my first time hitting the Ping woods, never even hit them at the range before so wasn’t sure what to expect. Hit everything very high. I think if I play the balata’s with one of my classic set of woods the results would be better.

I’d be reluctant to trust the performance of the wound balata balls. Generally, they were last manufactured twenty to twenty five years ago. The natural cover and windings are susceptible to degradation, specifically hardening and becoming less supple and more brittle. I imagine the windings would come apart from being struck less than perfectly.

Oh, I definitely agree that a 30 year old ball is going to have some degradation to its windings but how much I’m not sure. The flight characteristics of the wound balls is what I’m interested in as well as the feel. The sensation of hitting a balata on the screws, even an old one, is something that I haven’t found with any modern ball.

I hope to go out tomorrow evening again but this time with my front line set of Mac TA irons and Stan Thompson woods. I think with the less game improvement aspects of those clubs like weight higher in the iron head etc the balata’s will perform better than they did with the Ping’s.

You guys are talking all the $1.00 And $1.25 Titleists and Maxflies. Only played those when I found one generally with a smiley face. When I could afford a new ball I bought an Acushnet Club Special for 35 cents.

When I take my persimmon drivers out for a spin I usually have a few of these in the bag just for them.

Very nice RobotDoctor!

Well I got out for 6 holes tonight with the late 50’s Stan Thompson’s and ‘55 Mac Tommy Armour Colokrom’s and it was a much better match for the balata’s. The ball wasn’t ballooning like it was with the Ping Karstens and had a much more penetrating ball flight, but it still was shorter than my modern persimmon ball the Wilson Zip.

I had a much better day driving the ball too with the Stan Thompson’s. I started on 16 and played 17 and 18 as warm up holes since the range is closed and felt loosened up by the time I got to #1.

Our #1 is a 460 yard par 5 that is uphill all the way, about 70 feet of elevation change. I hit the Zip first a bombed it right down the middle. Then the balata and hit it perfect as well. Both were right in the middle of the fairway but the balata was a good 15 yards short of the Zip which was 10 yards from reaching the 200 marker. So a poke of 235 for the balata and 250 for the Zip.

While I’ve reached this green in two with a modern titanium driver and hybrid, I’ve never even attempted it with a persimmon. After that 250 drive I figured why not give it a try so I pulled out the 4 wood and laced it high and long ending up on the green 20 feet away. Missed the putt but got the birdie.

I felt like I would have no problem driving the creek on #2 which is 228 to carry. I was all amped up and of course I push it off to the right and didn’t even reach the creek. ?

On 3, another par 5 this one 515 yards, I hit two nice straight drives again, both right down the middle, but again the Zip was 15 yards longer than the balata. But ended up parring the hole with the balata due to a better 9-iron shot into the green as the balata definitely spun more and held the green better but did need a club more than the Zip.

So is the modern ball longer, yes. Is the balata a viable option, yes. You are giving up yards but if you take an extra club you’ll get to experience the balata’ performance characteristics around the green.

Recalling our round last summer, getting on in two with persimmons at the first is a very tough assignment. The bunkers everywhere plus drop-off. Well done. Is your club open? Im not sure how California is right now. Finnish courses are open, almost as if nothing was going on.

Back to the subject of balls, I remember teeing up a Spalding Top-flite of 70's vintage against a B330 and got the same out of each with modern clubs. I feel one could have an authentic persimmon experience searching for a ball that plays like the syrlin balls (top flite, durable Titleist, etc.) and sacrifice little distance. Certainly not a balata type of ball, but still 'authentic', especially when everyone here talks about how the never played balata back then because of cost.

Thanks James. Yeah, I never even contemplated going for that green in two with persimmon before. It is a tough hole. I’ve been working on some things to relax the tension in my swing in order to swing freely and increase clubhead speed and it’s been working. I got a little cocky and thought for sure I’d carry the creek on #2, but it wasn’t even close. ?

Our Club is pretty much closed. No gym, no tennis, no pool. Golf is limited. No driving range, no guests, only private carts, no raking sand traps, no removing the flag, foam stuck in the cup so the ball doesn’t go down in. Our county has shelter in place orders in effect until mid May but you can go outside for exercise. I live right in the course also so I just go out back and chip or play a hole or two.

DJ, what is your or others here experience with laminated clubs as opposed to solid persimmon?

I have very little experience with laminate woods so I couldn’t compare the two. I am actually looking to add more laminate woods to my collection though.

I do have a set of Ping Karsten woods and have played them once. I like the head shape and the feel was no different than my persimmons, but the shafts are super stiff. Nothing else in my collection comes close to how stiff the Ping’s are on the deflection board.

I’m hoping to track down a set of Zing woods with the JZ stiff shafts as I’ve had great luck with that shaft in ISI irons I played.

I’ve played ping equipment since 1971 when I got my first set of KARSTEN I, no dots. I don know whenn Ping started puttinG any other flex other than stiff. I bust had a set if K II s reshafted with TT EP95 double soft stepped and I don’t hit them any further or higher than a set o K I! KIII, and original eye. I do hit my ISI about 15 yards further than any of my pings. Of course a don’t hit any club very far anymore. I think I might have to change my focus of not playing anything made after 1980. I’ve played every ball up to E6s but not goi g to pay pro v prices. For my old mans game, Bridgestone Precepts play just fine and you can’t beat 20 for 2 dozen. I long for the 35 cent Acushnet Club special of days gone by and 5.00 green fees

Many years ago Ralph Maltby conducted an experiment with both persimmon and laminated woods. His quest was to see if golfers could distinguish between the two in terms of playability and feel. Identically designed clubheads, 1 persimmon, 1 laminated were built using exact specs, and were shafted and gripped alike. Both heads were painted black with the exception of the soleplates and inserts. To the subjects testing the theory, the clubs were unrecognizable in terms of "looks". Actual test results concluded that the difference in playability and feel again were indiscernable.

But I for one have concluded that there can be a difference. I believe there can be a noticeable difference in sound. To me, laminated maple has a more muted note than the crack of a solid block of '50s persimmon.

I've been playing the 2014 Bridgestone B330 RX-S with my persimmon Hogan Apex Driver and 3 wood and a Cobra Baffler 4 wood for the last few months. Two rounds ago I put a Honma "High Powered" persimmon driver in the bag. I have never enjoyed driving the ball more in my life. I had been playing the RX-S already so that's where I started testing balls and that about where I stopped. I had some older E6's laying around and hit those with good results. The RX-S cover is really great around the greens anyway and it seems to spin well off the driver. I need to get on a launch monitor with these clubs because I am hitting them not nearly as short as I had thought when I first put them in play. I would imagine the new version of the Bridgestone spinnier balls will play great on persimmon.