Swing speed - average amateur ?

I recently came across this blog by Trackman, which claims that the average amateur has a swing speed of 93 mph..... PERFORMANCE OF THE AVERAGE MALE AMATEUR GOLFERThis seems to me to be arrant nonsense ( as does their claim about the average handicap ) . I work 1 day per week as Starter at my home club here in the Netherlands ( De Hooge Rotterdamsche ) and this in no way reflects what I see taking place all day long off the 1st tee. I'm not saying this just because my ego has been hurt by the fact that I'm below that number, but in the circles of average golfers I play with my humble 90mph is one of the longer ones out there. I play off a steady 10 and clubmates of a similar standard are not blasting it past me...

I know that GolfWRX'ers will regard all this as powderpuff stuff, but even you must occasionally lower your standards and play with us lesser mortals - what do you think ?

Later this year when the courses reopen here in Europe I have permission from my club to test this assumption in real time among our members - I'll post my results when they reach some statistical significance.

How do you plan to test that? Your sample size will be tiny and not mean much statistically speaking, so don't know why you'd call their approach nonsense (and I don't see an indictment of the specific methodology in your post). My limited observations of decent golfers would suggest that 93 mph isn't that far off. I play to a handicap of 6.8 and am well north of 50 years old and I'm right around 90, and have been told it is a bit higher if I put a more efficient swing on the ball (which is all that article is really trying to get at, which is true). When I was a much higher handicap and much younger my ss was MUCH higher so not sure why you think swing speed and handicap necessarily have to be correlated - lots of young guys and not so young guys with swing speeds a lot higher than mine sport handicaps a lot higher and of course it works the other way, too. I'd love to have the swing speed I had at age 20 for example and measure that and take it out for a spin - that would be fun. I don't consider my 90 "humble" but I'm not worried about what it is, never have been. At this point in my golf journey swing speed is something I let the person behind the machine worry about and rarely even ask and its rarely mentioned.

In terms of sheer distance, swing speed does limit it and while I think I hit it plenty far, when I've done some real and on the course measuring I find I don't really hit it as far as I think I do.

As for handicaps that definitely isn't nonsense at all. You may not be understanding that number comes from the pool of golfers that keep a handicap, so in that sense it is accurate. Even the USGA would concede that most don't and of course that would skew the number up quite a bit, but that number isn't nonsense, you just need to understand what it represents. So as a 10, for example, you have nothing to apologize for, 10 and under is part of a small % of all the golfers out there. Give yourself credit for being a skilled golfer.

Having said all of that, it sounds like it would be a fun thing to do if you are into that kind of thing and if you have a reliable instrument to measure it should be interesting, and even if not so reliable maybe you'll at least have relative numbers that will give you some insights.

I play with a regular group of about 12 guys. All low single digits all swing above 115. Nobody’s corner of the world is going to be representative of millions and millions of golfers.

Gotta remember, a lot of old farts play this game....don't know if they count women and kids in that study which would bring that average down.

USGA definition of a bogey golfer is one that drives the ball 200 yards, which is about a 90 or so swing speed.

90mph ss is what I have with my 7i...

Naw, A 90 mph swing speed with smash factor of 1.48 with normal launch angles will be about 230 yards total distance.

I don't doubt your numbers, but y'all must all hit it really crooked to only be low handicap and not +3 or better. I'd never shoot over 64 every time I teed it up with that swing speed. That's about a 300 yard carry.

Sounds like you need to improve your swing speed.

Dang. Now I feel bad. With my swing speed I should be at least +5. Better get to work!

All amateurs? All above 115? I'm guessing all in their 20's or 30's? 115 is no joke -- that's serious clubhead speed.

Hell, we don't have 12 guys out of a 300 member club that swings that fast.

Yeah all amateurs, all former college athletes. Most are in their 30s.

What kind of playing ability?

None of us are good enough to compete nationally. Couple of the guys probably have the physical skill to compete at a high level but tend to fold under the pressure of a $20 Nassau lol.

I’m usually around 105 now and am the short hitter in our 4 ball.

Average driver swing speed? 120. Wait, this is wrx amateurs we're talking about right? We hit it 350, hit every green, but really really it's just that damned womanly putting! Grrr...

Trackman data is based upon a sampling of people who have completed the Trackman Combine. How many average weekend golfers have ever done a Trackman Combine? The only people who would take the time to do a Trackman combine are avid golfers who play golf frequently. It isn't Joe Schmo and his wife Georgita, who play twice a year and Joe barely swings it 75 mph. I am the leader of a group that books 13 tee times every Saturday at our local course. That means 52 golfers. How many of those 52, avid golfers, who play every weekend for pretty much 52 weekends a year have done a Trackman Combine? I asked that question today. The answser: 3. Backgrounds of the 3 who have done the Trackman Combine: 1) Me - 5 time Club Champion and compete in our state's amateur; 2) 29 year old kid who was an NAIA all American at a small college in Missouri; 3) 47 year old who has finished in the Top 10 of the state amateur and state mid amateur multiple times. Do those three backgrounds represent the "average" Male golfer?

That's why statistics being spouted in articles like that are nowhere near representative of what you or anyone else see on your course every weekend. If they took Trackman, put it on the first tee of almost any muni or country club in the US to measure clubhead speed, it would be nowhere near 93 mph.

This is the truth. It has to be narrowed down by age, hdcp, and how avid the golfer is. 93 is way too high.

My thanks to the last 2 posters who I feel have the correct perspective. I know the Trackman rep in my area and I'm going to talk directly to him next week. Problem is that coming from a respected source like Trackman this kind of conclusion is immediately taken up by others and often used as a basis for decision-making - the Dutch Golf Federation for instance nonchalantly quoted this in their most recent monthly magazine - so it takes on a kind of hallowed status.

This is not an ego thing for me ( actually I'm using the virus lockdown to work on my swingspeed right now as I can't play ! ) but a part of a larger campaign to persuade people to play off the correct tees for their playing level. Here in Holland every club shares a tradition called the " Herendag " ( Men's day ) - teetimes reserved exclusively for men, usually above age 50, who play competitions amongst themselves. These are mostly retired guys as you can imagine. I started a debate a couple of years ago with this group to try and persuade them to move up a tee - as you can imagine I got the usual macho responses - so one day I carried out an experiment. The Dutch Golf Federation has issued guidelines about choosing the appropriate tee based on your driver distance - to play from yellow ( everyday tees ) they reckon you should hit 190 metres ( 210 yards ). On our 5th hole there's a fairway bunker at 190 metres from yellow so I placed a marker pole there and recorded how many of the Herendag competitors reached it - decent weather, no wind, not a huge amount of rollout ( there never is on our course ). The result - precisely I guy - a serious golfer who plays off 6. 20% of them failed to clear a water hazard at 135 metres carry from the tee !

I'm pleased to say faced with this evidence the Herendag moved up a tee with a corresponding increase in playing pleasure - some of them still thank me to this day ! What I'm now planning to do is take my little SwingSpeed radar device, plant it on the tee of hole 5 and record the results for a number of days, including some competitions which I know will include our best players, and assemble say 500 readings by handicap. I know the SSR overreads by about 6/7 mph but assuming I can't get my Trackman friend to spend several days doing this that should still give a reasonable picture.

Incidentally here in Holland you're not allowed to play without first getting a kind of golf drivers licence - for which you have to have lessons and pass an exam ! What that means is that every golfer is registered with the Federation and has a handicap certificate - guess what the average handicap is - 30 !!

Beste Meneer David,

Bedankt voor je bericht.

I agree totally with your observations and recommendations.  My swing speed with a driver is in the low 90s and I am about to turn 65.  From my club’s regular men’s tees, I’m still hitting a hybrid or sometimes a fairway wood into the par 4 holes.  I have moved up a set of tees, to our senior gold tees.  I am enjoying golf much more.  It is more fun now to have a short iron into many greens after hitting a good drive.  

I am hoping to get back to The Netherlands again sometime soon, when the lockdown ends.  I have never played golf in Holland, but I’m now a KLM Blue member that allows me to travel with my golf clubs for free.  

Any advice about playing the Dutch golf courses would be greatly appreciated, especially the famous Dutch links courses such as Kennemer.  

Ik spreek wat Nederlands maar ik ben nog niet vloeiend. 

Beste Dr Don your attitude is just what I like to hear !

Not many people realise how many great courses there are in NL. This may be because the legendary course architect Harry Colt did a lot of business here and designed some gems.

You can divide the top courses into 2 categories : 1. The 3 great links of the Kennemer, Noordwijk and Den Hague - all of them have hosted the European Tour's Dutch Open and in my experience can easily compare with the British Open rota - one famous American described the Hague as " Europe's Pine Valley " for instance. My personal favourite is the Kennemer, 18 of the 27 holes are Colt designs. 2. The inland " sand belt " courses ( all Colt ) : De Pan, Eindhoven, Hilversum, all have also hosted the Dutch open. I have never played De Pan but everyone who has raves about it. The other 2 you could imagine you were playing Sunningdale or Wentworth...

There are also some fine modern courses - if you're a KLM Blue member there maybe some arrangment with the very good International course just outside Schiphol which hosted the Dutch Open last year ( Woosnam design ). Drop me an email if you want to hook up when you arrive, my home club De Hooge Rotterdamsche is a " hidden gem " also !

"Average" swing speed numbers and distances for amateurs are virtually useless -- except to tell you what the average is.

When the spread in amateurs is 70 mph to 125+ mph, what good does it tell anyone that the "average" male golfer swings it in the low 90's?

Broken down into playing level segments, it starts to become barely useful. If, for instance, you are a competitive mid-amateur and you see that the average clubhead speed of players who make match play at the U.S. Mid-Amateur is 109, and you are swing it 98, you know where you likely need to improve if you want to compete with the best of the best. But ... you probably already know that if you're a competitive am! LOL

You need an extremely good wedge game to be +3 or better. Lots of fairways pinch at longer distances too. Not that simple. I’ve seen 125-130 mph from a 6’7 guy who hits it flush and arrow straight and can’t break 80 because of lack of distance control and short game.