Wow....instructor drama! Chuck Quinton at it again....

There was a thread on golfwrx years ago that went ad nauseum about Chuck basically being a bozo, but sadly he seemingly has reached new lows. Some instructors have been using "shelter in" to do awesome stuff on IG. But not Chuck; he's busy playing tough guy and legal threats. Sad.

And wow, not every day you see someone of Langer's stature chiming in for his buddy Kaplan. That's cool...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ef5MTc9yHY

Teaser.

Wow...that was quick...The video did have a lot of clips from Rotary Golf. The website it still up. I cannot believe these guys have this much time on their hands...

Here is what I got in email...

Chuck Quinton of Rotary Swing threatened to sue me for millions. Turns out, he was mistaken. Read the truth (which includes a can’t-miss twist) below. On behalf of my company and myself, thank you for sharing this and your trust and support in AXYS Golf.Watch the video below for the full story:SPOILER 1: A note for Chuck Quinton, from Bernhard LangerSPOILER 2: Chuck starts crying at 4:30

Click Here To Watch The VideoVisit RotaryTruth.com to learn more…Chucks Threats: 

On March 23, 2020, Chuck Quinton of Rotary Swing sent me a series of vicious emails and meritless threats against me and my family, even warning me that he knew where I lived.Chuck claimed that I ‘stole’ his ‘copyrighted’ instructional ideas by subscribing to his website in 2018 (ideas I have been working on with 5 different Major Champions, including Bernhard Langer, Since 2014).Chuck sent an email to 300,000 people calling me a fraud, even saying I lied about my father having Parkinson’s disease to gain sympathy from people Chuck asked 3,000 people on his private facebook page to comment defamatory remarks all over my Facebook/Youtube pages… even promising he’d rent out Pebble Beach for everyone after he took every dollar I and my young family had.Visit RotaryTruth.com to learn more…

The truth about Chuck Quinton’s vicious and meritless threats against Top PGA Tour coach Eric Kaplan…Chuck’s ridiculous claims that Eric Kaplan had watched Chuck’s videos in 2018 and stolen his ‘copyrighted’ instructional ideas…HERE’S THE TWIST: Chuck’s methods actually came from one of the experts Eric Kaplan learned from, Alison Thietje (Chuck signed contract with Alison in 2008 which gave him permission to use her research, in exchange for a 10% royalty… which he never paid).Chuck wrote a book in 2007 called ‘The Rotary Swing’ where he teaches THE OPPOSITE fundamentals he claims Eric stole. Please share this email and the truth. Thank you for taking a stand against Chuck’s vicious behavior, which has no place in the game of golf.

Your friend and coach,Eric Kaplan

Golf swing theory is intellectual property lol?

Interesting stuff! I got Chuck's emails for a number of years until I finally got tired of his marketing methods and canceled out in March. Looks like I missed all the drama! I had heard in the past that Chuck had possibly learned his teaching method from Alison Thietje. Allison's claims make Chuck look less then scrupulous in his dealings with her. Also his 2007 book is rather damming evidence as the countless thousands of hours developing his teaching seems to have happened in a rather short time time frame from when he published his book to when he started with his current method?

As far as intellectual property goes if someone copies someone else's published work and claims it as their own and uses it for gain then I believe that there would be basis for a law suit. Of course I am not a lawyer! If Chuck can prove that Eric Kaplan copied his teaching and published it after becoming a member of RST then I think that he would have a case. I kind of doubt that this will ever end up in court though. On the other hand if what Eric says is true then I would think that he would have a case to sue Chuck for defamation of character or slander or the like. Or possibly Eric's lawyer could cause Chuck to publish a retraction. It will be interesting to see if anything further comes of all of this.

"Top PGA Tour Coach Eric Kaplan"......please stop.

This is pretty eye opening

It's pretty simple, you might get a lawyer to work on a contingency fee if they feel they are going to get paid by the losing party with deep pockets. Clearly that rarely exists in the golf community. The other option is Chuck or Eric pay the retainer, which would be substantial, and likely far more cash out of pocket either one of them wants to risk.

So what's the alternative? Take it to YouTube!

Chuck better call Saul.

this stuffs too funny. never heard of this kaplan guy, and theres certainly not a ton of info about him online, though he does appear in a golf channel video with langer talking about putting, so he at least is partially telling the truth about being a teaching pro to top players. quinton on the other hand has never been able to reveal any of these 'countless professional golfers' that come to him for instruction. I used to be a member of rotary swing and while I deifnitely think chuck quinton has a nice golf swing, theres nothing revolutionary about that that he's doing differently than anyone else. and to me that you can swing a club so perfectly that youll never hurt yourself, is the biggest load of malarkey someone could peddle. his entire method of teaching is a way to get maximum money from members, before they realize theyre not getting any better. The truth is, most people who are passionate about rotaryswing and are in love with chuck are lost souls who can't even move their bodies correctly in the mirror, let alone swing a club. i must just need more reps theyll think, and chuck will continue to answer every question by telling you to do the 9-3 drill 5000 more times. how are people doing the 'dead drill' with a straight face and not realizing theyre doing a movement that has been around for ever and ever. putting your arms across your chest and turning your body is nothing special

Man I feel like I have a lot to say about this and rotary swing but will keep it short as I'm still conflicted about it and haven't made up my mind what is really going on.

First of all, it certainly is one of those things where your opinion will likely polarise depending on if you are a member of Axys Golf (Eric Kaplan) or Rotary Swing (RS; Chuck Quinton). However, I'm somewhat on the fence. I've been a member at RS for a while but also followed both on YouTube prior to this. I only saw some stuff about putting and bunker play from Axys Golf, which was completely different to what RS teaches. Then all of a sudden numerous videos popped up in a short space of time about the full swing which was using the same teaching style, methods, and even wording as Chuck did with RS. At first glance it seemed Axys Golf was copy & pasting the material from RS. According to Chuck Quinton, they even copied the layout, structure and prices from RS. A Facebook group also popped up just like RS had.

With that said, I watched all the videos and read the website that Axys Golf posted about RS. Alison Theitje's role is pivitol in the argument. She has been vocal about Chuck Quinton stealing her work in the past. Originally they had some kind of agreement where she would receive a percentage of the profits and RS would use her work. There is old footage available of her talks and she covers all the methods used on RS long before RS used them. I have no doubt this was her work, not Chuck Quintons. But what I don't know is what agreements were in place, to what extent Chuck Quinton developed the work, and why the deal fell through. It is unsettling that Chuck Quinton has not addressed that publicly, although it is known fact they did work together. And it leaves me feeling very suspicious and uneasy about RS when I hear him talking about his "years of research". What I do believe is this. Erik Kaplan from Axys Golf has been very open about his working relationship with Alison Theitje. He is working with her and her ideas and has built a teaching program around it. This is why it is so similar to RS. Because they have both used the same source materials. That said, I also suspect Axys Golf has indeed used the RS setup to copy the structure and to inform his practices and delivery.

In regards to RS itself, my impression is that it's a good program for the full swing. Even Alison Theitje has said so. She would, as she explains, it was her research that brought it about. The real plus points from RS is that it is a program from start to finish. Most others out there are a collection of tips and trial and error. But the dead drill program keeps you on track. The results are good for many people relatively quickly. For others its a long slog. Its surprising that something so seemingly simple can be done so incorrectly. But that's golf, and not specific to RS. The benefit of RS is that it forces you to keep going and to get basic things right before you move on, instead of running to the next quick fix. Its the antidote to moving from tip to tip and YouTuber to YouTuber. Whilst I agree somewhat with the poster above, there really is nothing new in golf, I do believe RS (or maybe via Theitje) has unique elements, such as pulling vs pushing, retraining the left side to reduce right side dominance, and getting the hips, body and arms to sequence correctly. Its the focus on these things that offer a 'package', which is a major selling point.

Everything else on RS (ie the driver course, putting course etc) is more marketing than anything else. And the whole marketing side of RS and Chuck Quinton just oozes sliminess. But I also understand that marketing is necessary. He uses all the tricks in the book and does work. Case in point, I signed up!

It will be interesting to see the outcome of RS vs Axys Golf, mainly because I want to see the truth come out about everything. Chuck comes across as a really nice guy. He speaks very well and he genuinely does understand the golf swing. It's just such a shame to have this ethical subplot running underneath it all. If it turns out he did rip Alison Theitje off then I would not renew any membership. If it turns out he is an innocent party then I will have nothing but good things to say about him and RS.

Based on the following, the judge denied restraining orders for both sides: QUINTON HOLDINGS LLC v. A | Civil Action No. 20... | 20200715f39| Leagle.com

I appreciate the efforts of all three, Chuck, Alison and Eric. Alison is the brains, Chuck & Eric are entrepreneurs. In the process of building a business, Chuck ripped off Alison, welcome to the real world. If Alison has chosen to partner with a different teaching pro, that is her prerogative. Eric and Alison appear to make a good team, Chuck will likely lose business to them. I just watched Chuck's beware/scam/fraud video, that is a reaction similar to a scared sociopath.

JNIK

Seems like if anyone has grounds for a lawsuit, it would be Alison.

I found the judge mentioning that both sides acted unprofessionally interesting. Looks like a tempest in teapot?

I don't know, I never heard of Axys Golf or Eric Kaplan before all of this. After reading both sides, I unsubscribed from everything on Rotary Swing and I doubt I'll buy anything from Axys or Kaplan. They both come off poorly and unprofessional.

When I read your post an HBO series I've been watching called The Vow came to mind. It's about the NXIVM cult and its creepy leader Keith Raniere. They used the court system and intimidation tactics to harass members who left the cult. One lady who left had 40+ civil suits filed against her by Raniere and the NXIVM. 

Wow, this whole story is completely crazy. As a largely uninterested 3rd party, I don't know who is telling the truth here and I don't have a side in the argument, but I hope that justice will prevail. 

Here's Quinton's take. What a crazy story: https://www.rotaryswing.com/golf-lessons-blog/erik-kaplan-of-axys-golf-reverses-story-admits-to-using-rotaryswing-for-own-benefit/

From the above link: "When Quinton suggested legal action would be the next step if Kaplan didn’t take the content back offline, that he was reportedly profiting from to the tune of $700,000 a year, Kaplan didn’t respond and forced Quinton to take legal action to protect his registered copyrighted material. "

Wow! Who knew you could profit over $700K/year in golf instruction! 

1 hour ago, Obee said:

Here's Quinton's take. What a crazy story: https://www.rotaryswing.com/golf-lessons-blog/erik-kaplan-of-axys-golf-reverses-story-admits-to-using-rotaryswing-for-own-benefit/

 

Quintion's story does not seem to jibe with the Judge's decision does it?  Here is the info again as first posted by @EdStraker:

https://www.leagle.com/decision/infdco20200715f39

Definitely soap opera stuff!

2 hours ago, Obee said:

Here's Quinton's take. What a crazy story: https://www.rotaryswing.com/golf-lessons-blog/erik-kaplan-of-axys-golf-reverses-story-admits-to-using-rotaryswing-for-own-benefit/

 

Who wrote this? Talk about a passive/aggressive melodramatic hit piece. FTA; "The marriage lasted just one month before Crawford called Quinton to let him know he had filed for divorce as he couldn't deal with her constant mood swings any longer and understood why Quinton had to terminate the agreement."

10 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

 

Who wrote this? Talk about a passive/aggressive melodramatic hit piece. FTA; "The marriage lasted just one month before Crawford called Quinton to let him know he had filed for divorce as he couldn't deal with her constant mood swings any longer and understood why Quinton had to terminate the agreement."

 

 

Pretty sure that was Quinton writing it himself. LOL

Pretty sure Quinton and Kaplan have recently had the same conversation with their respective attorneys.

Quinton/Kaplan to Atty: So how did the case go?

Attorney: Motions were denied.

Quinton/Kaplan to Atty: I don't understand, did we win or lose?

Attorney: It is a minor setback (while thinking it is a loss sucker), normal procedure.

Quinton/Kaplan to Atty: What is the next step?

Attorney: We can proceed with discovery, file a new motion, and if need be prepare for trial.

Quinton/Kaplan to Atty: Ok, but when do we go back to court.

Attorney: There seems to be a matter of my retainer....(i.e. this is going nowhere without you paying me $20K).

7 hours ago, Nels55 said:

Quintion's story does not seem to jibe with the Judge's decision does it?  Here is the info again as first posted by @EdStraker:

https://www.leagle.com/decision/infdco20200715f39

 

Definitely soap opera stuff!

"Upon review of the Motion and the response, the Court ordered Defendants to brief whether the Court should enjoin Plaintiff's conduct because the alleged conduct of both sides appeared egregious and unprofessional."

Lol. Uh, this is all pretty nutty stuff. I can't imagine Quinton's attorney is too thrilled with his defamatory blog post, which will probably be fodder for another motion.

6 minutes ago, MaineMariner said:

 

"Upon review of the Motion and the response, the Court ordered Defendants to brief whether the Court should enjoin Plaintiff's conduct because the alleged conduct of both sides appeared egregious and unprofessional."

 

Lol. Uh, this is all pretty nutty stuff. I can't imagine Quinton's attorney is too thrilled with his defamatory blog post, which will probably be fodder for another motion.

Yes, Quinton's post does seem like a lot of what they call it 'hearsay' I think?  Defamation of character for sure.  If I was a lawyer that might be a juicy one to go after!  Or not, I have no idea really but I can tell you that I have pretty much lost any respect that I had for Rotary Swing.  Also as mentioned above $700,000 yearly income from allegedly stealing Chuck's method?  Really?  Chuck must be making some serious bucks on the method in that case?

Whoa, soap opera drama in the golf industry. This is quite amusing to me because so many golf instructors use other golf instructors material in with their own spin. Every golf instructor learned and built their teaching methods from other mentor golf instructors before them or just from studying prior golf instructors. In this case, Quinton may have some copyrights to the material whereas the other instructors (Alison Thietje) never copyrighted their material even though they may had a major stake developing it.  However, it may hurt Quinton more from bad publicity going after other instructors teaching their spin on some of his copyrighted material.