Gained Distance but lost accuracy with irons

Hey guys I got fit for a set of irons last year, and I think I might have gotten to caught up with trying to get longer. I am a solid scratch golfer, I drive it straight and have a good short game and putt well. Irons have always been the issue. When I am on I can go low, but more times than not if I am going to play bad its going to be because of the irons. It might not be a horrible round but I just don't hit it close or miss greens I shouldn't

I went to a fitting at Club Champion last summer looking to get a new set of irons and gain a little bit of distance. I hit a lot of different irons and shafts, it came down to Mizuno MP20 HMB and Ping i210. For shafts the 2 best were Steelfiber 110Cw and Project X LZ 6.5. I ended up going from a set of Ping Ie1s standard length and loft, orange dot with Dynamic Gold s300 to a set of Ping i210s standard length, Power Spec loft, brown dot with Steelfiber 110CW stiff shaft

Here is the problem, the ball is moving a lot more than it ever has with my irons. I will think I hit it well and look up to see the ball turning left a lot more than I thought it should be. Even the slight mishits move more than I expect them to. I find myself aiming more to the right than I feel like I should have to. I went back and looked at my trackman numbers for the set I ended up getting and they are very similar to the numbers I am getting off my Skytrak. Here are the trackman #s from my fitting:

Ball Speed: 122mph

Launch angle: 18.7*

Spin Rate: 4568 (obviously this is off a mat, I know that lowers spin but is this still too low?)

Carry: 180

Attack Angle: -1.3

Club Path: 6.2

Face Angle: 1.35

Please let me know what you think, did I get too caught up in the distance gain? I gained about a half club throughout my irons

Is the lack of backspin the cause for lack of accuracy / control?

Holding greens isn't a big issue because my descent angle is fairly steep (45* off skytrak). I am just struggling with the lack of control on my irons

It looks like you dropped 20g of static weight with the shaft change and also cranked your lofts down which will be robbing you of some stabilizing spin. If your miss is left then that sounds like classic "too light" which would fit with the shaft change, and the low spin is only going to make the curvature more pronounced.

I would do some testing with lead tape, either put some strips down the back of the shaft below the grip and/or add some weight to the head. Experiment with that and see if it straightens your flight out a bit, or at least flies the way you expect. The lighter static weight is probably messing with your release/face closure so its just a matter of tinkering to get that back under control.

Edit: Also if that "6.2" for the club path is suggesting that you're pretty in to out then that means you are likely a draw player unless that number is an aberration. If your normal release was grooved with a heavier club, it can easily speed up with a lighter one leading to lower spin and more draw/hook.

Since you have a SkyTrak LM to tinker with, as do I, I would put duct tape on my hitting mat at either the insides or outsides of my feet and hit both clubs knowing the setup and ball position was identical. Your LM laser dot will force your ball position to be identical. Every other shot switch between old and new clubs. Odds # shots hit old club, even # shots hit new club using the same number iron for each. Then look at your data and graphs to conclusive prove either there is or isn’t a difference.

I did not pay much attention to your numbers, flight description and explanation of situation says enough. Your club head is obviously more closed at impact or you are more in to out path to cause the more severe curving left draw shot. You went .75 degrees flatter on lie angle so that would not cause more left flight, it would induce more push right if anything

What is the difference in offset between of old and new heads? More offset and playing same ball position would cause more closed face I think by allowing face more time rotate closed before impact. I might have that backwards.

Being different shafts they each have there own unique bend profile and they load and unload differently despite your same swing. Shaft torque differences might be another contributor. Move the ball back or open the face a touch to see how it helps on your SkyTrak. I would try moving ball back first to keep squared up face.

If you have the SkyPro Sensor too, I’d hook it up on one of the clubs before the 40 swings so you can get swing path data. Half Way Down - Return Angle parameter is what I would look at first. If the new and old clubs are weighted differently... total weight, swing weight, club MOI you might see swing path differences causing you to swing more in to out but it will require swinging and crunching the data provided you have the SkyPro tool too.

Prior suggestion about weight and trying lead tape was a great suggestion too. You just need to tinker to find culprit and tweak to get the sweet spots back. Good Luck.

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A lot more movement of the ball means reduced control of the face into impact. The more common cause of this is a weight issue - either total weight (shaft weight) or head weight (swing weight) and with the steelfiber i110's I'd suspect a head weight issue as the most likely. So get the swing weights checked and include that in your comparison.

Even if it might be a static weight issue (shaft weight too light), sometimes increasing the swing weight can help compensate for the shaft being too light. So get some lead tape and play around with adding it incrementally while hitting, a couple grams at a time and see how the feel and the results might change as you add the weight.

Thanks guys!! I do play a draw and do have the problem of getting stuck so I know that is part of the problem. I have played around with swing weight and added about 5 grams to each club. When I first got the clubs the swing weights were all around C8-9. I have heard Steelfiber 110 have a higher balance point and that can affect the SW and assumed that is the reason for the low SW. I have added about 5 - 6 grams and brought the clubs closer to D1 were I have always played my clubs in the past. Control got better but still look up and see the ball moving more left than I would like. I will try and add more weight to the clubs and see how that goes.

I unfortunately sold the old clubs when I got the new ones so I can't do a comparison. How much have you played around with the Side Spin # on Skytrak. DO you have any good parameters it should be? I have added about 5-6 grams to each club to increase the weight, because when I received the clubs the SW was about C8-9, I attributed this to the balance point of the shaft.

PX shafts have a more stable tip(and is heavier than SF), which helps the 'left' shot. I would get that SW up and change to the PX LZ. Change the lofts back to 'standard'. More spin will help with the control/added spin. You swing fast enough you don't need help with distance/power spec.

Thank you! In the past I haven't liked PX shafts but PX LZ impressed me and felt great. The numbers were similar with both shafts but didn't realize the LZ had a more stable tip than the SteelFiber. I went Steelfiber to try something different and I am getting older.

Unless you need graphite for aches and pains or the lightness, get fit with something else. Try the Mizuno shaft optimizer, great fitting tool to find the best fit shaft for you. The PX LZ has a stable tip, but spins a bit more vs. the PX.

I am thinking adding spin wouldn't be a bad thing. My 6 iron spin during the fitting was 4600 and on my Skytrak is just a couple RPMs more, granted that is off a mat but still.

Def. get Ping to change the lofts back to standard and go try a PXLZ in the fit cart. There is a 6.0 there. Also Ping has a new Web-fit. A lot better than the old one. Might give you some insight!?

I just went and did the Ping Web fit and it came back PXLZ but 6.0. The fitting I did I was hitting 6.5, I assume that was to prevent the left miss

Unfortunately, I’m not smart enough to comment on side spin with regard to the what numbers need to be. I’m a visual and feel player.

I would suggest ignoring chasing the side spin numbers and chase the feel of the desired shot.

This might sound crazy, when your hitting on the LM, just before you start to swing close your eyes and really tune into the feel of each swing.

You’ll probably hit some bad shots but ignore those. Before you open your eyes, predict the result of the shot in your mind then look to see the result.

When you have a really good feeling swing and everything just feels right, my experience has been 9 times out of 10 the result is also amazing.

Chase that feeling and look at those numbers.

2 main issues are the 6.2 path and the Lack of spin.

Working on the path. It has always been an issue even with my old irons. What is causing lack of spin is my question

Time to go try the PXLZ in the fit cart then?! Keep me posted on your findings.

If D1 was a good swing weight with the DG's, you'll likely need it higher for the lighter static weight steel fibers. So I'd keep going with the added head weight. When the static weight changes you can't use old SW values as valid reference point.

Of course the lighter static weight could also be a contributing factor so a good approach would be to look at the two some what independently. Since you started with the head weight, I'd say keep going with just that to see what kind of results you can get. After you've found the best head weight for those shafts, you can back off the head weight and try the lead tape on the shaft to find what the best shaft weight might be.

I disagree that the LZ's have any more of a stable tip than the steelfibers. The steelfiber i-series has one of the stiffest tips you can find in iron shafts (graphite or steel). The tip of the SF i110 stiffs are pretty close in stiffness to the standard PX 6.5's (and the PX LZ's are not any stiffer than the standard PX's, if anything they're a bit softer).

Thank you @Stuart_G that is great advice. A couple questions, at what point is adding too much weight, I mean at what point do I need to think different shaft or other options? How much does the lack of spin concern you?

The only things that might determine too much lead tape is 1) feels too heavy and results start to deteriorate 2) the added weight causes the shaft to start feeling too soft (or loose) and 3) You don't like the looks.

The tape is really for testing purposes. Ideally this would have been done during the fitting so that other options could be used during the build like tip weights.

Having to add a lot of tip weight (over 10 gm) can also be a possible indication of the static weight being too light so it might be time to back down the head weight and start adding the lead tape to the shaft (3-4" below the grip).

As far as the low spin numbers go, since you are hitting off of a matt, I wouldn't worry about it until you start seeing problem outdoors actually hitting off of grass - such as the inability to hold greens you normally wouldn't have problems doing. That's really the only thing that matters as far as spin goes, distance control. The accuracy issues aren't related to spin in anything except maybe a driver.

Thank you!! I will check it out!! Appreciate the help

Thank you!! When I have down swing weight testing in the past I have always been most comfortable around D1, but that may be because I have played Pings for so long and that's their stock. Hopefully I will be able to do more testing this weekend. Like I have said I added 5 grams to the heads already, so I might start with weight on the shaft before adding more to the head.

Do you think the higher balance point of the shaft is a factor?

It was a factor in the fact that they came out to C8-9 before you added the lead tape. It also means that as 110 gm shafts they'll play more like 115 gm shafts because of the extra weight needed to get to a more normal swing weight. Other than that, as long as you compensate with the added head weight, it generally wont cause any other issues.

Just wild shots in the dark here, but that path combined with a shallow angle of attack will produce lower spin, and it doesnt help having stronger lofts. If your path gets closer to neutral and AOA gets a little steeper, the spin should come back.

One last thought before I go catch 18. Assuming you have exported data from SkyTrak for your old clubs, look at dispersion circle sizes and compare to dispersion circle sizes from your new clubs.

If you see larger dispersion circles with new clubs, Stuart hit the nail on the head with respect to his comment on clubface control. However, if the dispersion circles are just shifted more left at a similar size, your control is still good just offline. Offline can be shifted right by adjusting ball position further back.

You guys are probably right about path but I am also going to do testing on swingweight and static weight like @Stuart_G suggested

In addition to the good advice that Stuart has given you so far, I have found when dropping a similar amount of weight as you have that I needed at least 3 SW points of increase to get back into the right realm in terms of feel. So if you're tuned in to D1 with a 130g shaft, I would be looking for at least D4 with a 110g shaft. As Stuart said, the swing weight number is only useful when dealing with the same setup of variables e.g. shaft weight, grip weight, balance point etc etc. Once any of those changes a meaningful amount, and I consider 20g of shaft weight to be pretty meaningful, a swing weight "reset" is needed because your old reference number no longer applies.

Great points. Thank you. I will be doing some testing tomorrow for sure!

Ok guys I had time and did some serious testing, I started to by doing some drills working on my path (like I think I said its something I am always working on). I took 2 irons, my 6 & 7 irons, they are always reliable and goto clubs for me. First thing I took my 7 iron and did some SW testing, I went from D2-D5, honestly nothing felt like it made a hug difference but the most comfortable / best results was D3. I tried each SW a couple times to make sure I just didn't get a groove with one. On my 6 iron I added about 20 grams of lead tape to the shaft about 3" below the grip and it had a SW of D1. Theoretically similar to my old clubs that had DG s300. I then tasted the 7 iron with D3 against the 6 iron with the added 20 grams. Overall I was hitting it pretty good, the ball wasn't overly hooking which tells me my path was good today.

The results, the 6 iron from the get go just felt more comfortable and flew straighter according to my SkyTrak (its cold and rainy in northern Michigan today!). The thing that got me was I could hit the 7 iron a couple times and pick up the 6 iron, go through my pre shot routine and hit it great. However if I hit the 6 iron a couple times, pick up the 7 iron and go through my pre shot routine, and the 1st swing always felt a little weird, the next would be fine but never the first.

Does this mean a re-shaft is likely? IF so do I go back to the Dynamic Gold S300 or do I go to the PX LZ 6.5 I also hit in my fitting and liked?

I do appreciate all the help you guys have given me!!