Cheating

Read an article on GolfDigest.com about cheating on the tour and in recreational golf. Made me think about myself. In general, I don’t play competitively - I don’t bet, I don’t post scores for a handicap, I don’t compete in tournaments, heck sometimes I don’t even keep my score, I just play for fun with friends and fresh air. That being said, because of that I generally don’t think anything of doing things that would be classified as cheating in any competitive situation - mulligans, moving the ball off a particularly tough lie in the rough/sand (not closer to the hole though), not dropping in proper places, not taking stroke and distance for lost balls, etc.

So, with all that out there, would you consider me a golf cheat? My thinking has always been that if I’m not competing, or even keeping score, then it doesn’t matter. But maybe I’m wrong.

In my opinion, there has to be some nefarious purpose, or intent, behind an action for it to be cheating. If you are just out there having a good time and there are no stakes, you lack the requisite intent to be labeled a cheater, IMHO.

Who cares if you go out and have fun and enjoy a good game of golf. As you admit you don’t post scores or even keep score and if your friends do the same who cares.

Agreed completely - you worded it perfectly. I like to play 9 after work when daylight lasts enough. I play like 95% of those rounds by myself to unwind. If I slice a drive into the woods, in my mind I’m not taking the stroke - just reload and go again at the tee shot.

If there’s nothing to gain, then what’s the difference. It’s the intent and gaining something from it that makes it cheating. Otherwise it’s just enjoying a round without stress.

I guess my question/thought would be, if you don't care if you do this and have no expectation other than fun, why would you care what any one of us would think of you? I imagine if push came to shove you would be able to play "correctly" if the situation required it (e.g. tournament play).

Just go and continue to enjoy yourself.

In a bounce game cheating is questionable at best. In competitive matches it is criminal. Golf has integrity in most people's eyes. Let's keep it that way.

I tend to agree with most on here. Hey if you are just out there having fun do your own thing. I do that a lot when playing by myself in my vintage rounds. If someone asks me what I shot because some are curious around here as what I shoot with vintage equipment. I just tell them I honestly do not know. Have to sit around and think because score is secondary to me on that. But like the OP I do not play comps or big money matches any more I just play for kicks and giggles. Back in the day I was a stickler for the rules. But to the OP have fun and do it however you want to

If you are not turning the round in for a handicap (obviously this hurts only you but I still feel it’s important), or playing in a way that effects someone else who cares? If I go walk a few holes after work I think nothing of doing whatever I want. When I play with my wife (she shoots about 120) she improves her lie every shot. I don’t bat an eye or think she is cheating because she is playing only for herself with me. If I play with my buddy for even a small bet then cheating is cheating...I make sure we are really clear about what we are doing and as long as we are in agreement then it’s fine imho. I will say it sucks to shoot a great round, that counts for nothing as I don’t even maintain a handicap, and telling someone about it and then say something like “well on 17 I did more a ball of a root, I think I had a shot but didn’t want to break my club” and in my head the score isn’t “real”. That said, I’m not hitting a ball that might cause injury to me or equipment if I’m not playing for money or something...guess I should just take a shot or suck it up and hit the shot but I guess I’m willing to bend the rules in a non tournament (and I don’t play any tournaments) situation.

I think there's a fine line in some situations, and it would be too easy to get comfortable with lax rules, and one might find it hard to return to normal for regular matches. That being said, do whatever you want, just so long as you respect the course and other people playing, and are able to keep proper pace. The only thing that might ruffle feathers is someone claiming a great scores/rounds this way; if you bend the rules, score goes out the window, good or bad.

well you can't keep a legit score if you are giving yourself preferred lies and others. Just say you are having a practice round.

Play however you want, no big deal.

But you aren’t playing golf.

Golf is like any other sport. I played basketball and football growing up too, it is like asking if playing 3 on 3 at the park with different foul rules is "cheating". It's like being on the court alone and travelling before a layup and asking if you're cheating LOL

To "cheat", you have to be cheating someone. You are playing for fun and i gather you don't play in any tournaments or money games with handicap.

Guys like that, i say play however you want, because you are contributing to the game and to local economy. As Hawkeye says you aren't playing by the rules of golf, but no more than local pickup players aren't playing by the official rules of basketball. As long as you aren't cheating anyone else (which you aren't) than you are not "cheating"

I'm not sure I understand. 'Cheating' to me is only if you are doing things illegally (against golf rules) AND keeping score. And what you do with that score has different degrees of cheating.... are you submitting that score for GHIN record? Or unofficially to mention to friends?

If not keeping score (like I sometimes do when I haven't played in 2 weeks, I just go out as a 'practice round', not keeping score, maybe even drop a ball and hit a shot again; there is no cheating involved; it's kind of like shooting hoops alone as opposed to playing a basketball game against someone.

You're not a cheat in the circumstances you describe

When I'm playing competitive golf I follow the rules to the absolute best of my knowledge, using the rule book if necessary. Anything less would be cheating

When I'm playing friendly golf with my family or practice rounds it makes no sense to follow golf to the letter of the law. I make sure I know what I would do in competition but ultimately I'm there to have fun & maintain a decent pace of play - I won't be running back to the tee to play my third following an unexpected loss of ball

Don't let anybody tell you you're "not playing golf". That's a tired expression that needs to go away.

To me, that's sort of like saying when I'm driving my car at 6mph over the speed limit, I'm not driving.

Wrong. If you're not playing by the rules, you're not playing golf. You're just hitting a golf ball around a golf course, which is perfectly fine as long as you keep pace, care for the course, and not claim you scored anything because you really didn't.

Golf is played with a golf ball and golf club (usually)...almost always there is a hole and green surface (mini golf, top golf). You can play with any rules you want...just make sure if you're competing your competitors know what rules you're playing.

The same people who think golf is only played with USGA or R&A rules probably also think 3 v 3 basketball, or 6 inning baseball isn't real either.

Some stuffed shirts (Mike Davis) aren't going to tell me how to play the game...thank you very much.

Unfortunately yes you are cheating yourself of a real score and measurement of how your game is. Am I gonna fault you for it. No. Ive seen it many a times when players I play with bump the ball on a regular basis. Even when you play with your buddies and you improve your lie, it is creating an advantage. So stop it. Haaaa haaaa haaaaa. There I said it. Now go on with your day, you are still a decent golfer. Now lets see how many out there will jump on their soap box to express their morals and how you are a bad person and relate it to everything in your life.

Or kind of not.

It’s a distinction worth being mindful of, IMO.

Maybe a better way to put it is playing golf by ROG and playing golf however you want.

Rules aren’t hard to follow, most kids and adult beginners I’ve encountered actually want to follow them and learn them.

Do I follow 100%? No. I am given putts in rounds with friends - that’s how they play, not rocking the boat and not a hypocrite about it.

But I think people are selling themselves short by not trying to play by the rules - you really don’t need to master very many.

I suppose it's semantics mostly but I think you are still playing golf.. you are just not playing by the rules of golf. If a group of guys are playing basketball half court and are shoving, pushing, charging, and violating many of the rules of basketball, would you say they are not playing basketball? Or would say they are just not playing by the rules? I think the latter is the more accurate statement regardless of the sport.

If you don't put cheese on a ham and cheese sandwich.....is that cheating.?

And OP you are not cheating. Just having what seems to be a lot of fun. Continue on.

"Maybe a better way to put it is playing golf by ROG and playing golf however you want."

I think this is a fair distinction, I might phrase it "proper golf" and "fun golf". For the OP, if you're not competing against anyone, and not posting a score, you're not cheating. Heck, even if you're competing, you're not cheating of all of you have agreed to do certain things outside the rules. That's not to suggest that breaking the rules and still posting scores for handicap is the right thing to do, its not.

For me, I'm generally following the Rules to the best of my knowledge and ability, because I play for small amounts of money, or in club tournaments, and that's the right thing to do in those circumstances. Its good to be in the habit of doing things properly, there's no change for me when I get into a little more serious competition. And for me, "proper golf" really is FUN golf too.

For the OP, if you're not competing against anyone, and not posting a score, you're not cheating. Heck, even if you're competing, you're not cheating of all of you have agreed to do certain things outside the rules.

davep043 sums up my thoughts on this exactly.......if you are out to just relax and enjoy yourself, please explain how making a double par on a hole is enjoyment......toss another ball out, relax & hit it

There's a whole world of money matches in golf, some of it real money. I knew quite a few future tour pros who played in some of these matches in Florida in the 70's. One guy was called "Ball Bearings" because he had ball bearings for ankles, always rolling his ball over in the rough with his feet. Famous guy with a couple of majors.

I'm going to use this next time my wife asks me if I'm playing golf this weekend. Nope, definitely not playing golf.

Haha, you are welcome!

Its different, if its a non-competitive round, someone isnt a serious golfer, or a new golfer. I dont care what they do according to the rules. Ive gotten my mother to tee her ball up in the fairway, she doesnt play any serious golf. Ive gone out and practiced and drew lines in the sand to help get my bunker game dialed in. Use your rounds to practice, if that means breaking rules to work on something then go for it. I dont care if you blast a ball OB then drop at the 100 yard marker. I dont care if you move your ball away from a root or a rock. It has nothing to do with my enjoyment of the round.

Now if its a tournament, competitive, match. or serious handicap round. Then the rules need to apply. Even then, Ill be pretty generous if im just playing someone in a match. Ive told guys to move the ball out of some seriously messed up and filled divots. I personally dont care, I feel if he hit the fairway and is somehow in a diviot that has a 1inch deep front and his ball is sitting in that, no one reasonably should be expected to deal with that.

Without getting too philosophical: do what you want in your fun rounds, it’s for FUN. I just find it hard to get rid of a habit like that come tournament time.

That’s why I never improve my lie and count every shot, except maybe when my 2nd tee shot goes OB and I want to move on to keep pace. I’m still unsure how to score those holes, usually write down double par and 3 putts to kind of punish myself and keep it realistic, but we play Stableford anyway here so that’s close to what would happen in a tournament.

I play in tournaments regularly and thus try and be as honest as possible to avoid disappointment.

One of my buddies doesn’t play competitively and is not too sure about some of the rules, and of course we let him do his thing and are not condescending about it or anything. If we have a match, we just let him know when he wants to take the distance drop after an OB ball that he’s out of the hole. Works for all of us.

I’m not as pedantic as it sounds, I’m just super competitive and want to stay on top of my game at all times, so I know what to expect in a tournament round.

Anyone that says they are not pedantic is, in fact, pedantic. ?

Well, I’m just very German. Hard to deny this.