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Club Fitting Shaft Question

 hespeler ·  
hespelerhespeler Members  12WRX Points: 13Posts: 12 Bunkers
Joined:  in WRX Club Techs #1

Question for all the gear junkies/experienced club fitters out there.

A bit about me...

I'm about an 11 HC right now.  Ball striking is generally very good, it's my play around the greens and driving holes where I lose a lot of strokes.  I've always played stiff shafts.  Always a better iron player than woods.  Driver swing speed can be anywhere from 98-104 mph but generally falls around 100-101 mph.

Last year at Club Champion I was fit into a Ping G410 LST 10.5 degrees with an Accra TZ5.  At the time I was fighting a hook and the fitter set the driver to fade. 

My results since playing this thing are all over the place.  There are times where I'm hitting consistently 275 and even 300 if I catch a downhill but most times I'm consistently hitting it 245-255.  The main issue though is I can't get it to launch high most of the times.  A lot of my shots are low line drives that are just not getting enough carry.  I'd say I get one or two drives a round with a boring mid-trajectory and a few that launch too low.  I definitely don't hook it though.  Most of my shots have a bit of a fade with my big miss being a push or push fade and sometimes a low slice.

I took a look at the build sheet and noticed the fitter put me in a M5 flex which it looks like is a x-stiff.  The set up is low launch, low spin and  I'm wondering if I'm playing a shaft too stiff.  I think it's definitely upped my backswing tempo.

I don't usually play courses that long and only tee off from the blues every once in a while so I don't really need to take driver off the tee that often.  I usually tee off with my 2 or 3 hybrid or an iron depending on the hole.  When I was fit for the driver I was also fit for the PXG Gen 2 hybrid with a KBS Tour Graphite in stiff flex.

I guess I'm wondering if a player with my SS could play a x-stiff shaft and to try to determine what the fitter may have been thinking.

Also, I'm getting the urge to tinker and was going to have a G410 lst 3 wood built up with an Accra TZ5 because I do like the feel of the shaft very much and I've hit 3 woods 250-255 so it may be a better option than driver for me but now I'm also thinking of getting the driver reshafted to a TZ5 stiff flex instead.

Thoughts?

Posted:
1

Comments

  • MyherobobhopeMyherobobhope hey there, blimpy boy. Flying through the sky so fancy free. Members  3220WRX Points: 831Handicap: 6Posts: 3,220 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #2

    Sounds like the shaft isn’t a good fit... definitely tinker. Plenty of good options out there, but dropping to stiff might fix the issue.

    Posted:

    As of 6/5/20
    9.5 Cobra LTD Pro with Aldila Silver 110 X
    13 Degree Adams Speedline with Aldila Alpha X
    18 Degree Adams A12 with Proforce X
    6-PW Adams CMB with Project X 6.0
    5 iron Sub70 639 CB with S400
    4 iron / utility Sub 70 699 with Proforce 85 gram X
    50, 54, 60 Vokeys
    Tank Counter Balance #7
    Driver and Putter are set for now. Wedges are safe for time being.

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  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SCMembers  3858WRX Points: 1,048Handicap: 3.9Posts: 3,858 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jun 30, 2020 5:12pm #3

    In my experience, flex doesn't really matter when it comes to launch data and ball-flight. I could play an R, S or X and hardly notice the difference and my SS is 110+. Flex is nearly inconsequential, especially when every OEM uses their own flex ratings. Flex is more about feel than actual ball-flight.

    If you're worried about ball-flight, you want to pay attention to a shaft's weight. That's far and away the most important variable. 10 or 20 grams of weight may not sound like much but you'll notice it and it can mean A LOT when it comes to one shaft feeling comfortable and performing in a friendly manner and the next fighting you every step of the way. Weight is a critical variable in trajectory.

    A lighter weight X-flex can still easily launch higher than a heavy R-flex. Plus, a guy who prefers a 60g shaft is never going to get along with an 80g shaft no matter the flavor. Likewise, people who prefer heavier shafts never like the lighter weight options. And flex ratings don't fix that. So again, use flex to dial in feel. Use weight to address ball-flight.


    As as example, I've got a 60-TX version of the Tensei Orange in my driver. I've hit both the 70-TX and 80-TX versions as well and they are entirely different animals, especially that 80g version. That's a BEAST. When you see guys on tour like Rory hitting 80- and 90-gram versions of these shafts that's an indicator of just how much they're loading the shaft during the swing. By comparison, the 60-TX is a much more friendly version that someone like me can hit well. Put me in an 80-TX version though and that puppy ain't getting very high.


    All that being said, you probably need to look at your driver swing though. If you can't get the ball up in the air that's partly to do with how you're hitting it. A shaft may help, but it probably isn't the only thing. In fact, your own swing is probably more than 50% the issue. That goes without saying. But you might not want to tweak that? That's your call. If a shaft change fixes the issue, you might be 100% fine with that.

    Posted:
    Driver: M3 w. Tensei CK Pro Org.
    Fairway: M6 (3w)
    Dr-Iron: 718 T-MB (2)
    Irons: 716 CB (3-Pw)
    Wedges: SM6 52-F / 56-F / 60-S
    Putter: Newport 2 Select
  • ChipNRunChipNRun Members  2404WRX Points: 591Posts: 2,404 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #4

    Before you tinker with shafts, re-set the head to 11.5° and see if this helps. Clubhead loft is a primary determinant of launch angle; shaft is used for fine-tuning. This would close the clubface slightly, possibly encouraging a draw, so you may have to slide some head weights to tweak shot shape.

    Also, Trajectory Tuning would allow you to flatten lie if needed. This would lessen chance of left error if needed.

    Posted:
    What's In The Bag *...

    Driver: Calla XR16 Pro 10.5° (set open) / Fuji Evolution II TS Speeder 665 R-flex 63 gr.
    FWs: Tour Edge XRail 4W + 7W / GraphiteDesign G60 R-flex 60 gr.
    or Calla Alpha 815, set 16° + 20° / Fuji Motore Speeder 665 R-flex 62 gr.
    Hybrid: Cobra FlyZ 3H 19° + 4H 22° / Matrix VLCT Altus Lite flex 73 gr.
    Irons: Tour Edge CB Pro Tungsten 4i - PW** / KBS Tour 90 R-flex 101 gr.
           4i refitted with SteelFiber 780 HLS Hybrid shaft R Flex 75 gr.
    Wedge: Calla MD3 48°/8.SS + 54°/12.WS + MD.PM 60°/10  | KBS Tour R-flex 110 gr.  | Note: MD4 58°/8.C-grind may replace MD/PM
    Putter: Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced) / 34" w. Ping Pistol PP60 grip (stock)
    Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag
    Ball: Calla SuperHot - orange
    * Either 7W or 3H left out, depending on course and season.
    ** Wedges: 46°and 48°are competing for bag space.
  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SCMembers  3858WRX Points: 1,048Handicap: 3.9Posts: 3,858 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #5

    Good point @ChipNRun

    Almost goes without saying!

    Posted:
    Driver: M3 w. Tensei CK Pro Org.
    Fairway: M6 (3w)
    Dr-Iron: 718 T-MB (2)
    Irons: 716 CB (3-Pw)
    Wedges: SM6 52-F / 56-F / 60-S
    Putter: Newport 2 Select
  • hespelerhespeler Members  12WRX Points: 13Posts: 12 Bunkers
    Joined:  edited Jun 30, 2020 7:43pm #6

    This is a good point, thanks.  I must say that even though I'm in pretty good shape and athletic, this is probably the heaviest club I've hit.  The G410 head is pretty heavy and the TZ5 has a stiff tip which makes it feel heavier.

    Admittedly, driving is a weak area for me.  I've found it hard to consistently release the club.  I'd say every four or five rounds I've got it working and I crush it but can't seem to reach the same level of consistency as my other clubs.  FWIW, I've taken a bunch of lessons but most of my success has been the result of reading and studying Jim Hardy's One Plane Swing which naturally launches the ball lower.  I never had a problem launching drivers before; even had a Callaway Diablo 9 degree which I launched just fine.  In fairness to Club Champion I wasn't using this swing when I went in for the fitting.

    I do have a Ping G LST with a Velyx 553 Alpina which is counterbalanced.  Maybe I'll game that for a couple of rounds and consider switching that shaft to the 410.  I was hitting that club fine but at the time felt like an upgrade.  The counterbalance may just um, counterbalance the heavier G410 head.

    Posted:
    Post edited by hespeler on
  • hespelerhespeler Members  12WRX Points: 13Posts: 12 Bunkers
    Joined:  #7

    I'll double check but I think Club Champion gave me a 9 and set it to 10.5 so I'm not sure I can set it to 11.5.  :( Also I've changed the bias to draw as I haven't hooked a ball in a while.

    Posted:
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  • cfmgolfcfmgolf Members  692WRX Points: 130Handicap: 5-9Posts: 692 Golden Tee
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    If you are close to Club Champion, I would also recommend going back and having them retrieve your fitting data and compare to what is happening now. This might give you a point of reference, and they might have some ideas for you also.

    Posted:
    Cobra Speedzone 9* w/ HZRDUS Yellow
    Cobra F9 3/4W w/ Tensei Blue 1/2" Short 
    Callaway Rouge 3H & 4H
    Ping G710 5-P w/ KBS Tour 120
    Cleveland CBX 2 48*
    Cleveland CBX 2 52*
    Cleveland CBX Full Face 56*
    TM Spider X 34" blue
  • PepperturboPepperturbo Midwest and SouthwestMembers  16879WRX Points: 1,030Handicap: 4-5Posts: 16,879 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jun 30, 2020 9:21pm #9

    @hespeler - I play to 4-5 index, a low of 2. For many years I teed the ball lower, played a much heavier shaft and saw nice drives but not always ideal consistency, though low dispersion. Never been a big hitter, 275+ was back when. Recently, I read a John Daley excerpt where he said tee the ball up high and tilt it back a touch. I thought nothing could be that simple, but went with it, barely sticking 3.25" tee in the turf and tilled back, also griping down 1.5" on handle. The first time I used that technique off the 1st tee, hit it nearly 25yds further. Was where my 50 something buddy puts his ball. That happened all day and ever since. Sunday, I was on a long-uphill Par4 and smacked the ball. I was nearly 25yds longer in the middle than prior times playing that hole. I continue to be amazed. Been using that tee setup and Ventus shaft, I B happy camper, and I am older than you and many on here.

    And "YES" a player with your SS, depending on shaft profile, can play X-Stiff shaft. Whether or not you'll have better results that with stiff remains to be seen. Most adjustable driver sleeves have 2* of adjustment. My TS2 is 9.5 and it's set to 10.2*.

    The TZ5 shaft may be fine however, its weight may be affecting consistency. I missed your shaft weight? Even at my age, I can still play some X-Flex shafts but they have to be either 5 or 6 series, 7 is now too heavy for driver but Ventus 7 (71g) works fine in my 4wd.

    Posted:
    Titleist TS2 9.5, Ventus 5 "S"
    Titleist TS2 16.5*, Ventus 7 "S"
    Titleist 718 T-MB 17* 2i, Steelfiber i110 "S"
    Titleist 620 CB/MB 3i-PW, Steelfiber i110/i125 "S"
    SM6 F-52/8, Steelfiber i125 "S"
    SM6 M-58/8, DG-S200
    SC California Monterey
    ProV1 & AVX



  • hespelerhespeler Members  12WRX Points: 13Posts: 12 Bunkers
    Joined:  #10

    Funny you mention this. Ever since gaming this driver I find I tee it higher and higher but I haven’t tried the tilting it back trick. Gonna have to try that, hopefully, I can keep it on the tee!

    So I was playing a Ping G with a Veylix Alpina 575 which is 53 grams. According to JD’s Clubs the Accra is 70 grams. I don’t carry a 3 wood anymore but that’s typically around the weight of a stock 3 wood if I’m not mistaken.

    Dont get me wrong, I’ve hit some real bombs with this thing when everything is clicking but most of the time, I don’t feel like I’m getting the most out of it. I feel like I can just hit my 2 hybrid or put a 3 wood back in the bag and get similar results.

    I’m not going to do anything right away but if I decide to pick up a 3 wood I may take the Veylix out of the Ping G and put it in the G410 driver and the Accra in the new 3 wood.

    Question: I’m not into club making so just want to make sure, if I decide to put the Accra in a 3 wood they (pga superstore) can cut it down to the playing size of a 3 wood and install it, right?

    Posted:
  • hespelerhespeler Members  12WRX Points: 13Posts: 12 Bunkers
    Joined:  #11

    I am close and am thinking about it but it’s potentially going to be a very expensive experiment. I do realize I’m not obligated to buy anything.

    Posted:
  • mootrailmootrail Members  615WRX Points: 121Posts: 615 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #12

    Head first, shaft second, that's the law.

    Posted:
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  • PepperturboPepperturbo Midwest and SouthwestMembers  16879WRX Points: 1,030Handicap: 4-5Posts: 16,879 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jul 1, 2020 5:31pm #13

    @hespeler - Depends on the tee you use but Epoch 3.25" tees lean just enough. Gripping down the handle and a good swing, most of the time tee stays in the ground. Yes, they can cut to desired playing length. Best to not cut too much off as you can always cut more. I don't like to use graphite extenders to add length but that is an option if you take too much off. Stock 3wds tend to be 43" and 4wds 42.75." Shaft weights vary but 65 has fast become common; that's just too lite for me. Years past standard 3wd shaft weight was 75-76grams.

    I carry a TS2 16.5 4wd set to 15.5* combined with 71g Ventus stiff, cut to 42.75" it gets me close on long Par 5's. Course that's all I can ask for at my age... 😂 Good luck

    Posted:
    Titleist TS2 9.5, Ventus 5 "S"
    Titleist TS2 16.5*, Ventus 7 "S"
    Titleist 718 T-MB 17* 2i, Steelfiber i110 "S"
    Titleist 620 CB/MB 3i-PW, Steelfiber i110/i125 "S"
    SM6 F-52/8, Steelfiber i125 "S"
    SM6 M-58/8, DG-S200
    SC California Monterey
    ProV1 & AVX



  • hespelerhespeler Members  12WRX Points: 13Posts: 12 Bunkers
    Joined:  #14

    Thanks I'll also try gripping down.  I never really do that with driver but I bet it'll take very little if any yards off.

    Posted:
  • PepperturboPepperturbo Midwest and SouthwestMembers  16879WRX Points: 1,030Handicap: 4-5Posts: 16,879 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #15

    I never gripped down, it still takes a conscious effort. Never teed the ball really high either, partly because in CA, AZ, TX and Maui where I play golf it gets windy at times. Keeping the ball low-mid is important. Turns out both techniques allow me to still hit low-mid boring shots or high. I smack the ball harder too. Not sure if it's these techniques, a new $$$ shaft at 44.75" or both, but I am hitting the ball further and have greater directional control with nearly 0-dispersion. Course I am not hitting crazy high, make it rain 300+yarders. Anyhow, good Luck.

    Posted:
    Titleist TS2 9.5, Ventus 5 "S"
    Titleist TS2 16.5*, Ventus 7 "S"
    Titleist 718 T-MB 17* 2i, Steelfiber i110 "S"
    Titleist 620 CB/MB 3i-PW, Steelfiber i110/i125 "S"
    SM6 F-52/8, Steelfiber i125 "S"
    SM6 M-58/8, DG-S200
    SC California Monterey
    ProV1 & AVX



  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user FloridaMembers  7146WRX Points: 1,373Handicap: 3.9-9.3-7.7 (Health issue)Posts: 7,146 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #16

    Don't you have launch data from C.C. ? Didn't you try the club there after you got it and do the launch data again ?

    You're not giving swing speed, ball speed, launch angle and spin rates so it's hard to tell what the issue is.

    You're probably in the Stiff range but as another poster mention X shouldn't be a big deal. As he said, weight is usually more important. Get some data and post it.

    Posted:

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