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2020 Big Bad Low Spin Shaft Test

 TollBros ·  
TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test RangeSponsors  5151WRX Points: 444Posts: 5,151 Titanium Tees
Joined:  edited Jul 15, 2020 4:13am in WRX Club Techs #1


I figured it was about time to update the old thread with a newer version. It won't be as descriptive,in terms of swing types and such, but I will be posting data in both this thread, and the old thread so that you guys can access that data in one place if you choose to.


All shafts were tested with the exact same driver head.

All shafts were tested with all of the following criteria exactly the same

  • Tipping
  • Length
  • Swing weight
  • Grip
  • Face Angle
  • Head Loft

We will not be giving the details of that information out, as we use it for customer fitting purposes.

Shafts tested are as follows.

  • Aldila Tour Prototype 1
  • Tensei AV White TX
  • Tensei AV Orange TX
  • Tensei AV White 2.0
  • Secret Prototype
  • Aldila Rogue White 130
  • TPT 15 Lo
  • TPT 14 Lo
  • Fujikura Ventus Black
  • Hzrdus Smoke Black
  • Hzrdus Smoke Green


I will post one block of data every day. There will 2 blocks per player, 5 players of varying swing speeds.






Posted:
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Post edited by TollBros on
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  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range Sponsors  5151WRX Points: 444Posts: 5,151 Titanium Tees
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    Saved for data.

    Posted:
    http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/forum/608-greengrassevaluationscom/

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  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range Sponsors  5151WRX Points: 444Posts: 5,151 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jul 16, 2020 1:07am #3

    Tensei AV White TX:

    Shaft feels smoother overall than the Original Pro White. The overall load of the shaft is different from Pro White. As opposed to feeling the shaft flex in the hand area, it feels as if it more flexes below the gripping area. Just a little difference in feel overall that is noticeable on load. The overall shaft feel is stable, balance is as expected. The overall load feel is maybe a bit more linear through the bottom 2/3 than the Pro White but the tip feels just as stiff and stable. My miss with it was a little bit of an over draw and maybe even a slight pull on occasion. Overall everyone seemed to really like the way it felt more than original Pro White and found it pretty manageable for the most part. It wasn't overly stout feeling to any particular swing type or speed. It did tighten up quickly for the guys who don't put a big load on the shaft, so dialing the tipping can change feel in a hurry.


    Tensei AV Orange TX:

    Balance point was beautiful, feel was tremendously smooth. When I stood on it for extra speed, it did tend to miss right, as if maybe the shaft wasn't quite caught up. When I smoothed it, it was fantastic and the ball flight nearly perfect. I did really have to concentrate on keeping an even tempo, but when I did the results were spectacular. It unquestionably feels smoother than the original Pro Orange, however my results with the Pro Orange were more consistent and the shaft felt more stable overall under load. Smooth tempo guys were blown away with it, and the quicker guys found that they liked it tipped a bit more so we could stiffen it up. Everyone commented on how great the feel was however. Beautiful addition to the line. Stronger players are going to want to tip it more and make sure to keep weight up.


    Tensei AV White 2.0:

    Loved this shaft. Super stable, tremendous control even under full attack mode. It just feels tighter overall than the AV White non proto version. I could really tee the ball up and let it go full blast if I wanted to hit monster drives and it really held up to that. Never ballooned, never had any wild misses with it. Everything was perfect launch, super low spin, and a very flat apex on a straight rope even in a cross wind. It can take everything I wanted to give it, or let me smooth a little fade out there for control without any resistance. By far my personal favorite. Slower guys commented on how it was very stiff feeling, and made them feel like they had to work too hard at it. Definitely not for everyone, but from 108-110 up, it's a clear winner.


    Aldila Tour Proto 1.0:

    A lot of the comments I received from the group were that it feels a lot like a Kuro Kage XD or even Dual Core TX model. The flight was higher than white Tensei, as was the spin by a small margin, but the shaft felt very stable and under control unless you really stepped on it with 120+ speeds. I actually really liked the feel, although the launch was a bit high, the shaft was still playable and pretty stable. I wouldn't necessarily call the feel of it smooth, but it was not overly rigid in any way. Nice solid shaft for speeds to maybe 115 then guys tended to hit it a bit high and spin it a bit much, but overall it's solid. Players under 110 voted it the best of the lot. Over the entire 25 man test group, this is the one shaft with the consistently overall best performance in the 102-112 range. Will make a phenomenal addition to whatever lineup it ends up in.


    Secret Proto:

    Tremendously low spin, very tip stiff feeling, and overall very stable. Half of our 112 on up group preferred AV White 2.0 to this, and the other half would go with this one. The shaft did yield amazing distance numbers, but with such low spin, there were some shots that really would be trouble on the golf course. For pure distance it's this or AV White 2.0 for the higher speed crowd, but general consensus was that 2.0 was just a bit more controllable. I think this is an amazing start to a developmental part, and could release this way right now for Tour, however a bit more refinement over the summer could really produce a world beater on second iteration.


    Hzrdus Smoke Green:

    Pretty stiff feeling shaft overall and really leaves you with the feeling that you need to go after it to get anything out of it. Ball flight is very low, spin is also on the top end of low. Don't even try to get lazy with this one or it literally feels like it doesn't bend at all. Ball speeds were not high because of this. It really is a product for players with a tremendous load on the shaft or extremely high speed, 125+ at a minimum. It's one of the most niche products we have every tested.


    Hzrdus Smoke Black:

    Tip stiff, low spin, low launch profile. It is stiff feeling in the bottom half, but doesn't require the same aggressiveness as the original. The feel is a bit smoother and more manageable and we didn't have anyone comment that it was too much. It's certainly an improvement from the original.


    Ventus Black Velocore:

    Outstanding product. Fairly smooth feel but very stable feeling without getting loose under any type of swing. Very consistent and accurate. It's not the absolute longest shaft out there but it's long enough and the dispersion is outstanding. It just repeats itself swing after swing and overall delivery consistency is among the best we have tested. If total accuracy is a bit more important than 5 extra yards, give this a look. Every single tester commended on the consistency and accuracy. It's the best Fujikura shaft we have tested in the last few years. The data doesn't show the show story. Everyone was impressed with this product. It's worth noting that the stock Ventus are NOT Velocore shafts. This is the aftermarket model only.


    TPT 15 Lo:

    Very smooth shaft overall, mid launch, fairly low spin. It definitely feels heavier than previous TPT line offerings, and I suspect that is to add some wall stability to address the previous breakage issues of the line. Performance was very good, feel was excellent, and we didn;t see any quality issues or experience any problems with the shaft. Definitely the shaft for smoother guys or ball speeds under 165. As speeds went up, spin really went up and it started falling back into the lower end of the pack.


    TPT 14 Lo:

    Low torque, stiff tip feel, with a lower balance point. The lower balance makes it feel a little softer in the handle, but still stable. Dispersion is very good and stability is excellent making it easier to draw from very little droop in the tip. This is not a shaft for smooth swingers, and you must load it up or ball flights are very low. Aggressive swingers who spray the ball will really like this one. Spin is low, launch is low, and the bottom half is a stable as it gets.

    Posted:
    Post edited by TollBros on
    http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/forum/608-greengrassevaluationscom/

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  • noodle3872noodle3872 Chilliwack B.C. CanadaMembers  3338WRX Points: 640Handicap: 8.3Posts: 3,338 Titanium Tees
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    Giggity, giggity, here we go!!!

    Posted:

    Callaway Mavrik 9° driver Tensei Pro White 50 S Flex

    Callaway Mavrik 15° fairway wood Tensei Pro Blue 60 S Flex

    Callaway Mavrik 20° and 23° hybrids MMT 90 S Flex

    Mizuno JPX 919 Forged 4-PW Modus3 Tour 120 S flex

    Mizuno T20 Raw Wedges 50-07, 55-13 and 60-06 Modus3 125 Wedge

    Odyssey Stroke Lab Ten S

    Callaway Chrome Soft Triple Track

  • GehlyGehly ClubWRX  2095WRX Points: 174Posts: 2,095 ClubWRX
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    how should we be reading this data? is there certain target spin and launch you're looking for? or just look at total yards and that's the best shaft for that player?

    for me, I can look at the numbers but find the most value (think had it in the last thread) when I hear specifics on feel/dispersion from the player and which one they would choose and why

    thanks for posting!

    Posted:
  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range Sponsors  5151WRX Points: 444Posts: 5,151 Titanium Tees
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    It's not a fitting. It's simply a comparison of the products at a variety of swing speeds. This is the first block of 10. It isn't meant to determine what shaft is best for anyone of the testers here. It's just a comparison of the differences in performance between products. In our own lab we test all of these, in a variety of weights, lengths, tipping, in about 10 different heads, etc. All that data we use to fit our customers, and use in shaft selection for WRX members who choose to purchase from us. This is just a snapshot of what we do for the purposes of letting you guys see how much we do to make sure to provide the most educated and detailed recommendations. We are also limited to posting data on products that are signed off on by our customers. Unfortunately that does limit me a bit in terms of the shaft selection I can post data on, but I am not limited by such constraints when using the data for fittings.


    This is also meant to help those guys who may be on a budget and looking at used shafts from other members. Ultimately the goal is to give a tool to the community that helps them in their selection of products so that they enjoy the game more. It's the same reason we did the driver testing. Nobody pays us to do these threads. They are simply a thank you to the WRX community for supporting what we do.

    Posted:
    http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/forum/608-greengrassevaluationscom/

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  • dan040286dan040286 Members  362WRX Points: 82Posts: 362 Greens
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    Which AV white version made it to retail?

    Posted:
  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range Sponsors  5151WRX Points: 444Posts: 5,151 Titanium Tees
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    There is a standard AV white and then an AV white in TX flex, which essentially the pro version. The 2.0 is a current Tour only prototype, no retail version of this shaft.

    Posted:
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  • ObiwanForAllObiwanForAll Members  89WRX Points: 58Handicap: 7.4Posts: 89 Fairways
    Joined:  #10

    Would you be able to describe butt, mid, tip like GD does? I’ve noticed I always fit into a softer butt section with stiffer mid and tip. Great stuff!

    Posted:
    Driver - TM M5 - Fujikura Ventus 6X
    3-Wood - TM M5 - UST Lin-Q Purple 75X
    2 Iron - TM GAPR Pro - KBS Prototype Tour 85X
    4-AW - TM P790 - KBS $-Taper 125 S+ 
    Wedges - (54/58) TM MG2 Black - KBS 610 125 X
    Putter - TM Spider X - Breakthrough Stability Shaft  
  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range Sponsors  5151WRX Points: 444Posts: 5,151 Titanium Tees
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    I may do a little write up on feel and such but EI graphs and specific quandrant characteristics would be things we use for fitting purposes. If you are interested in a possible purchase just DM me and we can go through all of those details with you.

    Posted:
    http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/forum/608-greengrassevaluationscom/

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  • Brian8225Brian8225 Members  36WRX Points: 13Posts: 36 Bunkers
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    Can’t find one I love, playing ventus black cell right now, also tried smoke green/black and pro white. Curious to try AV white 80tx and whatever this secret prototype is.

    Posted:
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  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range Sponsors  5151WRX Points: 444Posts: 5,151 Titanium Tees
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    I'm happy to take a look at your data and info and have a little discussion with you about your swing and game. There's a small fee, but it's 100% applicable toward purchase.


    More data coming on Monday after the holiday weekend.

    Posted:
    http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/forum/608-greengrassevaluationscom/

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  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range Sponsors  5151WRX Points: 444Posts: 5,151 Titanium Tees
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    Second block posted. Another coming for 115mph tomorrow.

    Posted:
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  • J13J13 Dad golf MarylandMembers  16611WRX Points: 1,622Handicap: +1.6Posts: 16,611 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jul 7, 2020 2:03pm #15

    Any chance you could include the new Aldila RIPX ? The original RIP ALpha was an OG and I just grabbed a RIPX and seeing really low spin and tight dispersion. It's stout and has a lot of heft to it but it's definitely the RIP with some more feel.

    Posted:
    Driver     -     Cobra SZ Xtreme 9* w/ Aldila RIPX 75TX
    3W         -     Taylormade SIM Ti 15* w/ Aldila RIP Alpha 80X
    Hybrid   -      Callaway Mavrik Pro 20* w/ Project X evnflow black 85X
    Utility     -     Callaway Xforged 24* / Mitsubishi MMT 125TX
    Irons      -      Honma 737V / Mitsubishi MMT 125TX
    Wedges -      Callaway MD5 50S, 54S, MD4 60C
    Putter    -      Odyssey Versa 6
    Ball        -      Srixon Zstar XV

    WITB & Content - 
    https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1108083/j13s-witb-2020-irons-podcast-pics-added-pg-101/p1


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  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range Sponsors  5151WRX Points: 444Posts: 5,151 Titanium Tees
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    We are already done doing it. I do have some data on rip-x though that I can discuss if you'd like. We just try to keep these tests to higher end profiles, ie $350+. There has to be some cut off or it would just take too long.

    Posted:
    http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/forum/608-greengrassevaluationscom/

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  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range Sponsors  5151WRX Points: 444Posts: 5,151 Titanium Tees
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    Would you guys rather i post this in the older thread? Interest just doesn't seem to be there this time around so I can include it in the older thread as a footnote if there's not much interest.

    Posted:
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  • jgrove74jgrove74 Members  185WRX Points: 75Posts: 185 Fairways
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    I’m definitely following and interested in some of these new 2020 shafts. I’m just waiting on some mere mortal swing speeds. Ha!

    The AV Raw 2.0 is interesting as is the secret prototype. Seeing the 115 and 105 lots will be more of my interest as I’m between those ranges.

    As always, keep up the excellent work!

    Posted:
    Taylormade SIM 9 w/ Aldila Rouge White 130 MSI 60TX
    Taylormade SIM 15 w/ Tensei Blue AV TX 75
    Titleist 818H1 19* w/ Even Flow Black 85H 6.5
    TaylorMade P790 3 iron w/Project X 6.0
    Srixon Z785 4-PW w/Project X 6.0
    Vokey SM7 Raw 50.08F and 54.10S*. TaylorMade Raw Hi 58*. Project X 6.0
    Bettinardi Studio Stock 38 Blackout, TaylorMade Spider X, Odyssey O'Works Tour R-Ball
  • J13J13 Dad golf MarylandMembers  16611WRX Points: 1,622Handicap: +1.6Posts: 16,611 Titanium Tees
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    Gotcha. It's been very under the radar which is why i'm asking. I'd like to see the data to see how it stacks up with what i'm seeing. I'm testing on course RIPX 75TX vs Tensei Orange 70TX.

    Posted:
    Driver     -     Cobra SZ Xtreme 9* w/ Aldila RIPX 75TX
    3W         -     Taylormade SIM Ti 15* w/ Aldila RIP Alpha 80X
    Hybrid   -      Callaway Mavrik Pro 20* w/ Project X evnflow black 85X
    Utility     -     Callaway Xforged 24* / Mitsubishi MMT 125TX
    Irons      -      Honma 737V / Mitsubishi MMT 125TX
    Wedges -      Callaway MD5 50S, 54S, MD4 60C
    Putter    -      Odyssey Versa 6
    Ball        -      Srixon Zstar XV

    WITB & Content - 
    https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1108083/j13s-witb-2020-irons-podcast-pics-added-pg-101/p1


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  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range Sponsors  5151WRX Points: 444Posts: 5,151 Titanium Tees
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    It's somewhat low balance point. A lot of tester comments were that it balances similar to a Hzrdus Black. Very anti left, really can handle a big load and is very stable and accurate. Numbers wise it's going to vary on ball speed depending on what the player likes in a balance point. Launch is very similar to Tensei Pro White and spin tended to be a shade lower with the bigger load players. I'd say anyone who liked Hzrdus black, but wanted a little more feel to the shaft, but no compromise, or even a step forward in performance, would fit Rip-X perfectly. It's a shaft that a player really needs to load up to get the most out of.

    Posted:
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  • jgard320jgard320 ClubWRX  501WRX Points: 96Posts: 501 ClubWRX
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    I personally found the anecdotal notes like this to be the most valuable along with the data. Gave me a good idea of what to expect out of the shaft instead of simply chasing numbers and possibly getting a shaft that didn’t agree with my swing. I know it’s a lot to ask, but will there be general notes to go along with it?

    Posted:
  • Cruisin1966Cruisin1966 Calgary, ABClubWRX  1162WRX Points: 338Handicap: 6.9Posts: 1,162 ClubWRX
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    Please keep the data blocks here. We're reading and watching, but some of us mere mortals are waiting for the slower swing speeds. lol

    Posted:

    **Gamer Bag**
    Driver: Taylormade SIM Max @ 8º (9.5) w/ Fujikura Motore X F3 6S
    Fairway: Callaway Mavrik 4W @ 16.5º w/ ProjectX Evenflow Black 75S
    Hybrid: Titleist 818 H2 @ 20º w/ Atmos Blue HB TS 8S
    Irons: Miura 4-6 (TC-201), 7-PW (MB-101) w/ Mitsubishi MMT 105TX (ss*1)
    Wedges: Artisan Raw 51º, 56º, 61º
    Putter: Artisan 0117

    **Retro Bag**
    Driver: Ping G LS Tec 9º
    Fairway: Titleist 915F 3W 15º
    Hybrid: Cobra Baffler Pro 2H 18º
    Irons: Taylormade RAC Forged TP CB 3-PW
    Wedges: Wilson Staff FG Tour PMP 52º; Nike VR Pro Forged Brushed Oxide Raw 58º
    Putter: Cleveland Huntington Beach 1

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  • cheeeezzzcheeeezzz Members  304WRX Points: 74Posts: 304 Greens
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    Checking for updates daily. Looking forward to the rest of the data, especially the 110 range. These threads are awesome, so please keep them coming.

    Posted:
  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range Sponsors  5151WRX Points: 444Posts: 5,151 Titanium Tees
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    Yes I will add some thoughts on the products from a more general group perspective, just like above.

    Posted:
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  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range Sponsors  5151WRX Points: 444Posts: 5,151 Titanium Tees
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    Haha. No problem. The previous thread has almost 300,000 views so hopefully this one will gain some traction and start moving in that direction.

    Posted:
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  • J13J13 Dad golf MarylandMembers  16611WRX Points: 1,622Handicap: +1.6Posts: 16,611 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #26

    That's what i'm seeing. Balance point is very different compared to my Tensei Orange but it's even more anti left and has a more active feel to it. Whether or not that's a good thing has yet to be determined but it shows promise based on the 2 rounds i've played with it. Funny you mention HZRDUS Black because that shaft works well for me but doesn't have the same heft or active feel as the RIPX.


    On a side note is there a Tensei Orange AV 2 like the White?

    Posted:
    Driver     -     Cobra SZ Xtreme 9* w/ Aldila RIPX 75TX
    3W         -     Taylormade SIM Ti 15* w/ Aldila RIP Alpha 80X
    Hybrid   -      Callaway Mavrik Pro 20* w/ Project X evnflow black 85X
    Utility     -     Callaway Xforged 24* / Mitsubishi MMT 125TX
    Irons      -      Honma 737V / Mitsubishi MMT 125TX
    Wedges -      Callaway MD5 50S, 54S, MD4 60C
    Putter    -      Odyssey Versa 6
    Ball        -      Srixon Zstar XV

    WITB & Content - 
    https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1108083/j13s-witb-2020-irons-podcast-pics-added-pg-101/p1


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  • TollBrosTollBros Overseer of the Test Range Sponsors  5151WRX Points: 444Posts: 5,151 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #27

    As of right now there is no AV Orange 2.0. the 2.0 white is much like Rip-X in that it needs to be loaded up and is very low spin. It's a shaft for stronger players and can get very very stiff with incorrect tipping.

    Posted:
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  • J13J13 Dad golf MarylandMembers  16611WRX Points: 1,622Handicap: +1.6Posts: 16,611 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jul 8, 2020 1:02pm #28

    Makes sense as the orange is already pretty tip stiff. So i'm assuming Brooks is playing the AV White 2.

    Posted:
    Driver     -     Cobra SZ Xtreme 9* w/ Aldila RIPX 75TX
    3W         -     Taylormade SIM Ti 15* w/ Aldila RIP Alpha 80X
    Hybrid   -      Callaway Mavrik Pro 20* w/ Project X evnflow black 85X
    Utility     -     Callaway Xforged 24* / Mitsubishi MMT 125TX
    Irons      -      Honma 737V / Mitsubishi MMT 125TX
    Wedges -      Callaway MD5 50S, 54S, MD4 60C
    Putter    -      Odyssey Versa 6
    Ball        -      Srixon Zstar XV

    WITB & Content - 
    https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1108083/j13s-witb-2020-irons-podcast-pics-added-pg-101/p1


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  • cjpssecjpsse Members  99WRX Points: 77Posts: 99 Fairways
    Joined:  #29

    I just made the switch from the RipX to the AV White, and very, very happy - and I loved the RipX. Both are 75TX, ~45", and tipped to play similarly. I commented a few times to buddies that while the RipX was consistent, long, and accurate, it felt heavy and like a telephone pole (my SS is 120), but still had feel. The AV White, while I believe is statically a heavier shaft, feels much lighter (SW is the same). If SW is the same, and overall weight is heavier, I have no clue how it feels lighter, but it does. Doesn't feel like I need to go at it to get it to do it's thing. Ball flight seems very similar, with a consistent launch window and looooow spin. I'm playing the Mav Sub Zero 10.5, and my launch numbers are 11*, ~2000rpm. (Still working on hitting it higher on the face to increase launch) To give some perspective, before this I played an M5 with the Pro Blue and struggled to get spin rates below 3000.

    Posted:
    Callaway Mavrik Sub Zero 10.5* - MCA Tensei AV Raw White 75TX
    Taylormade SLDR 15* - MCA Tensei Pro Blue 70TX
    Cobra SpeedZone 18* - Recoil 780 SW ES F5
    Taylormade P760 - Modus 130X
    Titleist SM7 52 & 56 - DG AMT White
    Scotty GoLo 5 
  • markheardjrmarkheardjr Member 141..Oh yeah...Snap to youngin! Members  7395WRX Points: 204Handicap: 3.8Posts: 7,395 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #30

    Rogue Black TX 130MSI?

    Posted:
    NIPPON SHAFT TRIALS!! Get in on a pay-it-forward type shaft testing!
    http://www.golfwrx.c...yer-forwarding/

    TaylorMade M3 9.5° w/ Tour Issue PX Handcrafted EvenFlow Black 6.5
    TaylorMade SIM ROCKET 14.5° w/ p9003TX
    TaylorMade '08 Burner 17.5° w/ p9003TX
    Srixon ZTX-II 3-PW w/ Modus Nippon Modus Prototype ORA X (3I has an E11 Proto in Stiff)
    Cleveland 588 RTX CB 52° w/ Nippon Modus Prototype C10 S
    Srixon WG-706 56° w/ Nippon Modus Prototype C10 S
    Scotty Cameron SS Newport Beach w/ UST Frequency Filter
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
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  • schimmelschimmel Members  51WRX Points: 82Posts: 51 Bunkers
    Joined:  #31

    If it's comments you're basing interest on, there's must be a lot of guys like me who haven't commented yet and already have the intent to get at least one of these shafts.

    Posted:
7

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