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Ideal launch and spin numbers for iron custom fitting


Trap Junior

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Ok. As a player I never really took much interest in custom fitting and left that up to the fitter. However I am now in a position where I would like to know what a custom fitter looks for in terms of fitting a player. I know a lot more about spin and launch etc for driver custom fitting than irons but would like to know where my windows should be for an iron fitting on Trackman.

I have a swing speed with 6 iron of rougly 88-93 mph depending on how tired or energized I'm feeling. Hit down the usual 3 or 4 degrees. Dynamic loft from previous sessions tends to be 18-22 depending on my hand action on the day.

I see the tour average is 12 launch and 6200 spin for 6 iron off grass with a tour ball. All testing facilities in my neck of the woods have Trackman off a range mat either into a net with pro v1s.

As range mats launch higher and spin less what numbers should I be looking for off a RANGE MAT with Pro V1 so that it translates into ideal launch and spin and distance off grass once ont he course?

 

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First of all, a true driver fitting is about much more than just launch and spin. Unfortunately, the word fitting is used commercially in contexts that it really shouldn't.

For a driver, the main goal at looking at launch and spin is to optimize distance - well within the limitations of a swing and equipment choices that also gives the desired amount of control and consistency. It's a completely objective evaluation so optimizing is fairly straight forward.

With iron fitting it's not about optimizing distance so one has to look at spin and launch differently. There are no optimum or ideal numbers. Forget those tour averages, that's all they are, averages for tour players. There are plenty of tour players that are both above and below for all those numbers. What it really is about is finding the right balance between several things. The two main being a balance between distance and distance control. You can always gain more distance with an iron, but the cost is less spin and a shallower angle of decent - which means more roll out on the green and less control over the distance. Too much spin and you have to worry about ballooning potentially causing inconsistent distances and control. On top of that you need to find a set makeup that gives distance gaps between clubs that work with the players game.

So finding the right numbers for irons (or hybrids and fairways) is a lot more subjective than it is with a driver.

But back to my first statement. Fitting all clubs is about a lot more than just tweaking the launch/spin numbers. That's actually the last and probably least important aspect (although that's arguable). IF you really want to learn about fitting, this is probably the best place to start. Here is the first in a series of 10 articles about all the aspects of a proper fitting. Wishon: What length should your clubs be?

This is an interesting article as well: Custom Fitting: What I learned from Tom Wishon

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Thanks for your post and I read the article. I have read Tom's book. I just am a very black and white person. I don't like greys. I suppose what I am getting at it I feel iron custom fitting seems very vague compared to driver fitting.

For example:

90mph Speed = you are looking at these flexes generally

Tempo/Transition= slow could do with more flex, harsh =stiffer possibly

etc...

I suppose I want to know what numbers to aim for regards launch, spin, angle of descent to get your optimum maximised carry, with the straightest trajectory. Obviously consistency. That goes without saying I would have thought. I have always played blades or semi cavity forged irons for that reason to control the distance compared to a chunky callaway titanium head 26 degree 6 iron etc. I want to know even if my iron shafts might feel good to me they may be not the best out there for me and I can get better performance with something else.

In the Wishon article he doesn't mention what he looked for on the launch monitor when doing the irons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Wishon most likely doesn't cover it because it is so subjective.

Don't mis-understand I know exactly what you're asking for. And that's what I'm trying to tell you doesn't really exist. But let me try again. You said "I suppose I want to know what numbers to aim for regards launch, spin, angle of descent to get your optimum maximised carry"

Define "optimum". In the case of the driver, optimum is maximum distance (and even that could mean either max carry or maximum distance after roll out - so even that is not completely black and white But I hope you see that isn't enough for irons. You could maximize carry distance on all your irons but they'd likely end up with maybe a 1* loft gap between each iron (if that), and end up with distance gaps of only a 2-3 yard between each club in your set. I don't know anyone who would actually want that So yes, you do want to consider the balance between distance and the amount of roll out you'd get on the greens. But the problem is that there is no ideal balance. Or rather there is no one single ideal balance. Someone who plays softer greens may want more distance. Someone with really harder greens may want to lean on the side of less distance and more spin. A generally low spin player may not really care much about stopping power and only want certain distances and distance gaps in the set. One player may want the ball to land to stop with no roll (back or out) with the 8 iron, another player may want that with the 7i or 9i.

I do understand that you may not like the idea but you have make a choice to get the right answer for you. As you are playing, look at any of the clubs in your set and ask yourself this question. Do I want more distance, and if I do, am I willing to accept more roll out on the green to get that extra carry distance. And after that, you also have to ask yourself if you're willing to accept the resulting distance gaps in the set. Some people may want to work from the wedges up, other's might want to work down from the driver.

 

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Surely there must be an ideal launch and spin for me and the way I want an iron to perform that I could save for future reference to base all new clubs against? Tbh I dont know why anyone would want an iron to do anything but maximise carry if it can be done with good consistency and stops within a yard or two on normal firmness greens. Why would anyone want an iron to run upon landing on a green? Surely theres a 'standard launch and spin' for every individual and if they want something out of the ordinary trajectory wise they can add or reduce launch/spin from 'standard flight'? E.g should say a Rory McIlroy want super high irons for Shinnecock Hillsin a US OPEN then that is an abnormal flight he is seeking for 1 week in the year and launch and spin can be increased from 'standard' to give higher apex and spin?

 

To get properly fit the way I'd like requires good quality fairway like turf and a trackman and endless supply of proper pro v1 quality golf balls and endless shaft/head combos and hours to do it but that's not going to happen (for me anyway).

I've built myself 2 demo Mizuno 6 irons to test against my current set. Mizuno irons with same length, loft and lies, grips and swingweights, all 6 irons wirh my normal Rifle 6.5, Modus 120x, C Taper S flex. The head models are slightly different but all semi cavity. Not 100% ideal but close enough. I will go out on the course and see how they compare. That's as good as its going to get for me by the looks of it. I would just like to know what my ideal numbers are Trackman for each iron. I think there should be anyway. Then again as pinhigh said there are differences between mats in launch and spin so cant even know that a mat spins 1000rpms less and launches 6 degrees higher. One mat might but another manufacturers might be totally different.

 

 

If there is no answer to that then maybe custom fitting irons is pointless the way its done as said in the article. Maybe the way I am doing it is the best way. Old school. Build demos , go on the course hit them and see. No launch monitors.

 

 

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I think there are two problems with this line of thinking that may be what Stuart is getting at. First:"Tbh I dont know why anyone would want an iron to do anything but maximise carry if it can be done with good consistency and stops within a yard or two on normal firmness greens"

There is a contradiction in there, because maximizing carry involves a few components that would be at direct odds with the other two, hence why it isn't really considered. To maximize carry, you would maximize ball speed and launch while minimizing spin as much as possible. Basically treating your irons like a driver. Obviously this isn't how you go about it, and I don't think this is necessarily what you are suggesting, but in considering maximizing your carry at ALL, you will run in to problems.

The point is that the perfect set of optimized numbers exists only within the confines of your ability, your speed, and your natural tendencies, hence why it isn't just a set of numbers published for you to reference.

Second, the idea of Rory, or anyone for that matter, would seek a change like you are describing with equipment. I think that is an overarching problem with your entire approach here is that you trying to "optimize" your way into an imaginary standard that doesn't exist, as Stuart pointed out. The equipment is fit to you as the player to allow you to do what you need based on the situation, not as a magic bullet to create the exact shot you want on its own. If Rory wants a higher ball flight, he hits the ball higher. If wants a lower flight, he hits it lower. He doesn't go change shafts or lofts to achieve this, he changes delivery. You are basically trying to fit yourself as though you are an Iron Byron, but in reality you will change slightly every single time you go out there. You could obsess over finding this imaginary standard only to take a month or two off and come back to it being all out of whack again. We are always changing, so the best we can do is figure out what feels good in terms of weight and shot feedback both off the face and through the turf, what looks good in terms of shape, size, lie angle, and overall aesthetics, and what within those criteria produce numbers that add up to what you want. We all launch and spin the ball a little differently based on delivery and shot shape, so there is no sense in saying that your launch should be X and your spin should be X because those will always be changing.

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The maximum carry that you can stop. There's no contradiction in that.

All in all I think iron fitting must be completely worthless unless done off fairway quality grass with proper tour quality golf balls and even then its limited. Since you say there is no ideal launch or spin what is the point in using launch monitors for an iron fitting? To determine distance? The thing you say is not a priority in irons.

But 99% of custom fitters including Mizuno themselves in Europe determine launch and spin off range mats with range balls which is a waste of time. And has been mentioned you cant calibrate a mat to grass as every mat provides different spin and launch to the next brand of mat so its not a question of 'mats spin 1000rpms less than grass' as it applies to one brand but a different mat might spin 400rpms less than grass and launch differently . So the iron fitting business is simply a matter of determining length of shaft and lie. Since you cant tell anything from a mat and launch monitor I don't see how you can mess around with loft since the carry distances are meaningless.

The upshot of all this being that custom fitting irons is for show and a pointless exercise since during it you are not using the actual golf ball you play with nor hitting off a surface you actually play off.

 

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Trap - I think you would benefit from watching TXG videos on youtube. This would definitely help you gain a better understanding of what indoor iron fittings are trying to accomplish. It's important not to get caught up in "absolute" numbers and instead focus on the relative measurements and how they compare as you modify the "variables (shafts, heads, lofts, etc.).

Of course the numbers won't be exactly the same depending on the conditions, but they will be "relatively" the same; important things like gapping do stay consistent whether you're inside or outside. Focus on descent angle and spin to achieve the stopping power you need (based on your peak height and trajectory). You will gain experience in how your indoor numbers relate to what you see when you're on the course. Good luck.

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Tour level, and many better players overall, tend to deloft their irons. 12 degree launch with a 6 iron is still low though, and would question whether it only represents tee shots.

Different iron sets will target different levels of launch angle and spin to achieve their intended gapping sequences. Generally, you wouldn’t expect the greatest/biggest Bertha’s to have anywhere near the same spin rate as a blade or pseudo-blade, so there is no single golden number set for all golfers.

At your swing speed, with a ‘player’s type 6 iron’ off mats though, and a typical spin window would be 4500-6000 rpms with a launch angle of around 16 degrees. Peak height, descent angle, dispersion in both axis, and attack angle are some other metrics that the fitter should consider.

This is a good example IMO -

Driver - SIM2 MAX / Ventus Blue 5S

FW - SIM2 MAX / Ventus Blue 6S

Hybrid - SIM2 MAX / Ventus Blue 7S

Irons - ZX5 / C-Taper Lite S

Wedges - SM9 50/08 56/10 60/04

Putter - Odyssey Ai-One Milled #7 T

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The contradiction is not in your desire. What you’re asking is not unreasonable, just very difficult to achieve.

88-93 is quite a range if you want consistent launch numbers? If you have access to a LM, take it on course and focus on the most comfortable swing speed that will allow you more consistency with your irons? If you’re always maximising distance, then you might not hit and stick a lot of greens?

Look at not “going after” anything under a driver.

Other than on the driving range, I almost never put in what feels like more than 80% effort especially with an iron.

The other posts here are quite good responses for a difficult problem.

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Txg is not good about realizing their own limitations. Any time you’re fitting someone irons or wedges on mats the data is gonna be sketchy. I don’t care if it’s TXG , Titleists best fitter or whoever. Garbage in, garbage out .

spin and descent angle aren’t going to be accurate at all. Turf interaction also not accurate.

tbh indoor fittings are pretty much a joke in general . I’ve talked to numerous people who had indoor fittings and then completely hate the clubs. Because golf isn’t played on a launch monitor into a projector screen , it’s played on a course .

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@pinhigh27 said tbh indoor fittings are pretty much a joke in general . I’ve talked to numerous people who had indoor fittings and then completely hate the clubs. Because golf isn’t played on a launch monitor into a projector screen , it’s played on a course .
Fitting is full of imperfections. So anyone expecting perfection from any a fitting is leaving themselves open to disappointment. Sure artificial turf can be a limitation but then so can outdoor range balls or even junky turf on a 3rd rate range - or an outdoor range that only allows you to hit off of mats. And for most people, how much of a limitation is fairly minor compared to all the other things that can get in the way of a good fitting result. Most of the time it's a self proclaimed fitter that doesn't really know what they are doing. On top of that, the mentality of the player can be another big problem. There are tons of people who can't take their range game to the course or that swing differently under the scrutiny of the fitter or just after seeing numbers on an LM. And none of that has anything to do with being indoors or outdoors. Tour level fitting facilities are few and far between.
So all we can really do here is try and help people make the most out of whatever opportunities they happen to have available to them.
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Fitting and fitting can be many different things, but what we do indoor without any problems is to find correct grip size, Length, Total weight and club balance and the shaft that feels the best, and all that is needed to get the best possible impact, so thats where it starts. When we are there, we can now do a apple to apple compare to what you got, and look for changes to both launch, spin, apex and descent angle, and it does not matter what surface thats done from, we dont look for absolute numbers, but differences and dispersion.

But sure, it "should have been" done outdoor, using the gamer ball you are using, but be strait now, tell me what you would be willing to pay EXTRA for that?.

You the customer is the one paying, there is no free lunches here, so if you demand "real life conditions", be prepared to pay for it.

I took ALL my professional players out to play, not a full round, and often just the local 6 hole par-3 course if it was IRONS or Wedges only (190 meters as the longest hole - 209 yards) so they could try off the final candidate (#6 iron) from actual turf, but even turf is different from the tee, via the fairway, and from fairway to fairway so we hardly ever have the same surface to play the ball from outdoor, thats a large misjudgment if anyone think so.

Indoor we have removed the variables, and variables to temp and wind, and that makes it easier to make a apple to apple compare of what you got, to what changes can be made, and thats really what its all about.

Those places who use range balls indoor, is far out, but i doubt any of them offer a real fitting anyway, but the standard trial and error, so you get what you are willing to pay for.

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The surface matters though in determining launch spin and descent. If you are spinning a 7 iron 4500 off a mat then the natural reaction is going to be to move towards more loft and higher spinning clubhead/shaft combos. If you have no idea what the club is actually spinning it’s going to be impossible to fit the player into somewhere near the ideal range from a launch , spin and descent perspective.

 

hitting off mats results in different contact too, it’s way easier to make good impact on a mats so it could steer a player into thinking they are doing well with one head when they really might not be off actual grass. how do I know this grip size and lie angle and club weight actually result in me hitting the ball better when the surface isn’t close to what I will actually be hitting the ball off of?

 

 

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Ok maybe i should have expressed myself better....i have mostly been working with "better players", and they all KNOW if their launch is too high or too low, or if spin values is too high or too low, so when we compare the clubs they got with another club, we have a difference, and that difference is rather constant no matter surface we hit the ball from.

As average, the players i had should expect a difference of 800 rpms and 1.0* on launch angle using a #6 iron from the mat i was using in my studio to the tee places on my local course, but again, the surface itself is hardly ever the same out there, so if you brought a Trackman behind you a full round, you would be surprised to see how this numbers vary, there is NO constants here, so what we really look at is the direction of change, and if dispersion is good.

Here is one example of a Gap and dispersion tweak i always made on irons sets before delivery (the payer hits them). His average CS with the #6 iron is 89 mph plus. A set like this one "SHOULD" be tweaked 2* strong, since his launch of the mats is to the higher end, (even if we sub 1* and adds 800 rpms), and his descent is also to the steeper end, but as you can see, his dispersion as carry is good all the way up to the PW, that club is to short, so when the other gets a loft tweak of 2* who is considered to be the max...that PW needs some attention to improve it and 2* stronger lofts want make it, since we have changed all the others by 2*.

My notes in this players map say we changed the PW head to a "wedge" PW head. (Scratch SB1 to Scratch 1018). This is issues we CANT see when a fitting using the #6 iron is the basis for the set, but we knew lofts should be stronger, and they was made average 1.5* stronger to get gaps right. (10 meters average carry from iron to iron, 0 roll for PW, max 2 meters for the #9, 4 meters for the #8, 6 meters for the #7, 8 meters for the #6, 10 meters for the #5 and 12 meters for the #4 iron as roll out. less then 1% of you have a iron set that plays like that, but this is how most Danish PGA professionals prefer it for the European Tour.

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Hardly any of you have ever had such attention to your clubs like this players gets, and what you are asking for is something you most likely want pay for, so it aint hard to tell "how it should be done", but if you think indoor is useless,...then you dont know what the target for fitting is, and thats NOT a certain number, but "changes to what you got", with improved feel & dispersion, thats what matters for irons, not spin and launch numbers themselves.

The actual player has a very shallow AOA, -1-2 with his #6, and that makes the mats influence lower than a player with -3-4*, so we have no fixed conversions for anything, not even from turf since they vary too, both the turf itself, and the players AOA and compression of the ball, the ball he plays...i could go on forever with "exceptions" and variables, because thats mostly what we have, so its not the numbers isolated we look at or have as target, but the changes we can make to what they got.

Those of you who have seen PGA average numbers would notice we are way higher on launch here, but that only tell that "PGA Average" is just that...average, they are NOT ideal numbers,. and that will vary with playing conditions and play style (target or links style golf, hard vs soft greens, and normal wind conditions).

So, there aint no "ideal" numbers for irons, we mostly look at dispersion and stopping power/roll out, and try to prevent spin levels that causes problems into the wind.

 

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Picking up on a fat shot off of a mat really isn't that hard. The bigger problem is that some players will intentionally or unintentionally shallow out there swing and change the delivery when hitting off a poor quality mat, or any hard surface. The solution is usually just to find someone with a better quality matt - but as Howard already mentioned, that may add to the cost.

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Thats all true Stuart, but i really think way to many think that this is all about "the numbers", just like we way to often see with SW values..."it has to be D3 for my clubs"...and the places they go for a fitting dont even take care of the basic specs like Total weight and SW, they dont even offer a fitting using the players grip size and grip preference, and if its outdoor, its still with range balls, but they still want "ideal launch and spin numbers"...realism is lacking, so is knowledge of what we actually look at, and thats the changes and differences.

Most grooved WRX forum users know that not even launch monitors returns the same numbers from one model to another, but not even that matters, since its still "the apple to apple" compare of the difference we look at, we never look at the numbers themselves as "absolutes and constants or facts" and if we do, we are fooling our self and has our focus the wrong place.

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Im aware of that, but stuff like that is no issue really. First of all, a good club fitting starts by talking to the player about his game, his weak and strong sides, and how much turf he normally takes, his common mishits etc..., Wear and tear on the irons he plays also tells about how they are played.

So, its rather easy to see if his AOA becomes shallow from the mat, but i cant say i ever saw that, but mine was rather "thick" with good dampening, so if it had any issues, it would be like you wrote with other words, it "covers up" fat shots and dont punish him like they would have done out on the course.

Players with fat shot tendencies is those who has a steep AOA, and for them we should be extra careful with both choice of heads (leading edge and sole properties), but also total weight, so in the end, indoor vs out door is not where we find the difference, the difference between a good or bad club fitting is a question of the club fitters knowledge, and how good he is able to communicate with the player.

No club fitters is "wizards", so the player himself is a large part of the success or failure. He has to be a ACTIVE part of it all with clear feedback of his experience when we change club specs, we CANT rely on numbers alone, that want make it right, so club fitting is kind of a "team work" to get the changes the player seek. If he dont know what he seek and is able to tell it...its hard to help out and make it right for him. Maybe my customers was "the easy ones" to handle, they was all well aware of their strong and weak sides and what improvements they was looking for. Irons is Dispersion, Dispersion and Dispersion, and the clubs should feel good too, and dont cause issues to stop the ball or balloon into the wind, thats the short version, and what matters, not spin and launch values isolated. Ideal launch and spin will always vary from playing conditions to playing conditions and what we want out of the actual stroke. A good fitted set of irons has clubs we both can shot shape as we like, and either stop the ball "on the dime" or use "bump and roll" when that approach to the flag or the wanted lay up is better.

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I guess you're unaware that all mats are not created equal. There are high-end surfaces available from numerous manufacturers that are much better at providing similar launch conditions to what you will experience hitting off real grass. But in the end, I guess you will have to come to your own conclusions on what provides value to you. Millions of golfers use indoor fittings that provide much more benefit than trying to control the variables when outdoors to derive a trusted comparison of equipment (including usually dealing with crappy range balls).

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One of my personal experience working with players for over a decade is that when the players get too particulars during a fitting session, usually it will not end up well. This is such a mental (and mind) game. Thus, if you worry about all the details, you will likely to forget to enjoy the game. This is a game of imperfections.

True, you wanna get the best out of the money you spent on us fitters. But as @Stuart_G and @Howard_Jones often point out: hope you are willing to pay for our time to accommodate all of your requests. Personally, to me, sometimes I get the feeling that the players don't trust our judgment enough in doing what we do for a living. This is one of the reason why lately I tend to refuse to work with some people. Not because we are not capable of doing our job and helping the players...

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And what did you learn? did you see "ideal launch and spin numbers" you could print out? NOPE...like i said above, this players KNOWs if the clubs they play has too little or to much, so they want a tweak in the right direction for them, NOT because there is a magic or ideal number in a chart they wants to match.

After all those years you have been playing and building with your own clubs, you should have a pretty good idea of how your clubs works for you, and if you want more or less spin, or higher or lower launch, and thats what a side by side compare of your clubs vs options can do for you, there aint no "ideal numbers" we can trace here, but we can change spin and launch in the direction YOU want it to go, compared to what you play now, so "ideal" is what YOU want of a change, not the number values themselves."Too much spin can be a distance killer when it comes to the irons. .... Too little spin tends to lead to poor launch conditions and control issues."

So IDEAL is somewhere between " too little or too much", thats the most exact "numbers" for "ideal" you can get.

Now ask yourself, do you have too little or too much? you should know from playing your clubs....ballooning? stop the ball on the green issues? launch or dispersion issues? when you can answer that, you know the direction of change wanted for you, to get into your "ideal numbers" who is either higher or lower vs what you got, or maybe they are just perfect, but you think its more to get but dont know what?

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It mentioned his ideal spin so was wondering what that is. I would like to be able to put numbers on my ideal ball flight so I can have for future reference. Maybe this is not possibe.

I have always liked my iron shafts (6.5 Rifle) in my mizunos. I have played them in 4 sets now ((2 sets of MP57 and 2 sets of MP52). I would get the heads and hand ream them to .370 and transfer them over.

Why do I want to change? Curiosity that there is something better out there for me. I am not the longest and my 6 iron speed is more or less 90mph. I would like the get even 5 more yards if possible.

I was on a Trackman maybe 3 ago and the guy said he thought those shafts spin too much for me. I remembered him saying it but didnt think much of it at the time.

At the time I didn't know what a good spin number was and still dont so maybe they spin too much or they are fine. I've been using these shafts since 2008 after Mizuno fit me for them.

I have also been thinking about going back to full blades which I was using at my best maybe 17 yrs ago (Mizuno MP 33) but putting the Rifles into them. I have been using a sort of semi cavity forged model since 2008. I built a MP 64 6 iron with Modus 120x which is almost a full blade and the turf interaction due to the narrower sole was better than my MP 57 and a bit of a lightbulb went off in my head. This is what I used to feel and thought I had lost something in my swing. I also built a MP52 6 iron with the KBS C Taper S. I tried them all into the wind yesterday ont he course and the C taper and Rifle went the furthest and they both went the same distance.

So I am now going to put a Rifle into the MP64 and try that against my current M57 with 6.5 Rifle and see how they go. I am hoping the feel of the rifle shaft will go well with the better turf interaction of the MP64 and I will have the perfect match. But only if they give me the same distance as my current set. I dont want to give up yardage.

 

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Your thinking is right, turf interaction is part of it all, and if you dont have issues into the wind, or to hold greens as it is now, you dont "need" lower spin (or higher), but about the same as you have now, so simply go by "feel and dispersion", for what heads to use.

The article you linked to is using a "stupid" language and gives the impression that there was a specific NUMBER they was tracing, but when you read between the lines you can see its not. They try off their clubs "real life" to see if the direction of change is what they want, like M. Wolf who wanted a bit more spin on partials. That also tells he had "room" for more spin on full shots too (still no risk of ballooning), so he simply had to low spin, not necessarily "too low" on full shots, but it was still a margin higher up, before he would be in problems, thats why he could make the change to improve spin levels on partials....so its ALL relative to what we have and what we want, within the limits for "too much or too little".

We cant raise spin on partials only, added dynamic loft will be added dynamic loft both on partials and full swings with irons. Its ONLY for wedges we can add spin without adding launch, how crazy that might sound, but thats due to the limits for SPIN LOFT where the curve for spin and launch have a breaking point at 45* where launch still goes up and spin goes down, so by reducing SPIN loft (stiffer shaft simply), we can add spin but keep launch down or even reduce it. Irons dont work like that, since we are below 45* as spin loft on all clubs, so both spin and launch follow each other, all the way up to a spin loft of 45*.

Sometimes the ball we play is the key to improvements, since balls reacts a bit different depending on what club we use, and our club speed and ball compression, so there is balls that has low spin with the driver and high spin with wedges, so be open minded about a possible ball change if its a specific part of your game you want a change, end change of equipment alone dont seems to get you there or or is hard to get for some reason.

As long as the ball feels good and works as it should, who cares what the name of the ball is?, thats where some players is to rigid, they demand to play THAT ball for some reasons, even if it dont work good for them "over all" like a ball should. Ball fitting is a offer we dont see very often, but it should have been just as "normal" as club fitting since the ball is "equipment" too and a silly important part of it all, so its plain out crazy that range balls is used for club fitting...just saying.

i had about 30 different gamer ball models in my studio, so all testing was done with real gamer balls, and i often suggested another model than the player was using, and he got to try them off to see what changes that could make for everything from putting to the driver. Another 10-12 yards with the driver from the ball alone is not only possible but quite normal if the ball the player is using dont work good for him on that club. Keep that in mind if a certain part of your game needs a little tweak.

DO NOT SEND PMs WITH CLUB TECH QUESTIONS - USE THE PUBLIC FORUM.

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