Push Draw , how do you exactly open de club face ?

Hello ,

My tipical shot was a push draw , now is gone . Most of my shots are the ball starting straight to the target ( even left of the target ) and curving left , ending way left of the target.

I understand the new golf flight laws . My club face must be a few degress closed to my swing patch. Example : swing patch 4 degress in to out and club face 2 degress closed to swing patch . That would mean , 2 degress open to the target line.

My question is , how do you open exactly de club face? I have tried the follow things , and everything worked to some degree , but im afraid they might cause future issues :

1- Setup with everything square to the target line and open de club face a bit, ( regriping required ) . Does not feel very well.

2- Making a little press forward in a way i open the face a little bit. ( the swing feels a bit better than the previous i described )

3- Just aiming to the right of the target and everything square to that "secondary target" . That would mean my face is open to the "real" target ( flag ) , but actually the face is square to my secondary target ( right side of the flag ) . This is not the definition of an open club face for me , is just picking a target more to the right with square club face .

4- Everything square and forcing a more exaggerated in to out path , like im trying to throw my club to the right side of the target . Does not fell very well either, too much manipulation imo and too much curving.

Sorry for my english and thx in advance .

I used to have an excessive draw.... and more often a nasty pull hook.

Previous instrutors had pointed out my clubface setup at address closed to the target line - even though that appears neutral to my left eye dominant self (swinging right handed).

Finally got the best advice - the only real change to move to push draw was to hold the clubface more open in my grip - I grip before putting the club down behind the ball.

It is NOT a stronger grip itself - from face on, my knuckles visible are the same... just hold the club n my hand more open - this means it looks quite open at address to me even if it's more or less neutral.

This is far, far easier to do consistently if you have a rib/reminder in your grips. Mine are ribs installed under Bestgrip Microperfs grips, with the rib on top (not on the bottom of the shaft as is more common)... and i even have the grip put on upside down, so the stitching is on top also and fits in the V of my left hand.

Hello coops , thx for answer .

Basically that would be the "method" number 1 i described. Grip it slighty open . I had good results with It, but just didnt look well to me at address . It will be a matter of getting used to.

I had the same issue and didn't have any luck with a grip change. It just felt too awkward and I couldn't put any speed into it. What fixed the problem was learning how to swing hard with passive hands. Before I used to really snap my hands at the bottom (rolling them over) in an effort to generate more speed but obviously I couldn't control the closed club face at impact. Now I use my same comfortable grip (strongish) and swing hard through the ball while feeling loose, relaxed wrists and hands. The best drill I found was taking my 8iron and hitting little 100yd shots with it using only my body and not my hands over and over.

If you are swinging to the right your brain will automatically roll over tour hands causing a draw and sometimes a low left hook into hazard. This is not very accurate, bc you are doing last minute correction, your miss can be straight push, or left hook (not good for low scores). push/draw is not what u want to get inside 10ft of pin consistently. You should really play with setup, move the ball back, then forward, open stance, close stance. Line up one way, but aim left or right. Seriously if you do that you will begin to understand some key info on swinging. Doing this will give you some flatter and steeper swings, with shut and open faces, some combo will work great for you.

The best way to hit a push draw is to practice hitting the biggest inside out hook that can hit. Also practice hitting massive pull slices with the same grip and setup. Learn how to control your path and face angle.

I will try tomorrow your advices , all of them .

You gave me some things to work on .

Thank you very much !

Setting up square is your biggest problem. You're trying to manipulate the path or the face when aiming more right will cover a lot of it. Sounds pretty basic, but aim is still the biggest determinant of path.

If you've ever seen Patrick Reed or Kenny Perry in person, those dudes will aim out to right field. Pretty easy to hit a draw from there.

Hello again ,

I have been working on all your advices , i tried everything you guys told me and a bit more :)

I found that i was Overrotating ( flipping ? ) my arms/hands so at impact i was already closing the face. Using the feel of dead hands didnt work too well , i was still overrotating, looks like my right hand is very dominant . Aiming right and all was ok, but the ball was curving too much, i didnt like it.

I worked on more body rotation , with some left hand drills and that helped with a nice straight/little draw ball flight , but i dont feel very well with a left hand swing and i was lossing some distance ( 20 yards 7 iron ) .

So i started working on my grip looking for a way to stop my right hand from rotating so early in the downswing , and i found that a left hand neutral or very little strong and right hand weak , gave me more distance ( i was releasing at full speed with no fear of hooks , no tension ) , more consistency, and very little draw with some straight shots here and there . I even started working on a fade and i was able to get some pretty fades. It has been impossible for me to fade a ball for a year . After 200 balls, i had no back pain ..and i always end with back pain.

full swing, half swings, chipping, everything worked better than ever. I just have to pay attention , because with this grip i found that my right wrist like to be cupped at the top of the backswing . Didnt test yet if is better to let it go cupped or better to keep it straight. We will see.

After the range session i searched a bit about this and i found this Monte's article , is exactly what im doing with my grip.

I am rethinking the prevailing thoughts on grip. · Rebellion Golf

Most instruction I've read tells me to use the bigger muscles as they are much more stable and reliable. That eliminates trying to roll the wrists a certain amount to have the ball draw to the target.
The best advice (IMO) that I have reads about curving the golf ball is to change your grip just a tiny bit weak (for fade) and a tiny bit strong (for draw) and do everything else the same. Lord knows it's hard enough to keep repeating the same swing without bringing other factors (like wrist roll) into the equation.

Anyway, what is this "push draw" stuff anyway ? Push, or its twin cousin, pull, in my mind, are both negative results of a less than perfect swing. Why would I even try/tell myself to hit a "negative" shot ?
Net-net, totally agree with @gators78 . Instead of pushing the ball out to the right of where you're aligned (& your brain is telling you to hit it) and trying to draw it back to the left using wrist rotation, you simplify by aligning yourself right and drawing it gently to the left with 1 small "change" (slightly stronger grip). Add to that your grip doesn't change during the swing; your wrists, in the first (rotating) example, DO.
More moving parts, more room for error. 
Do you see ANY Tour Pros try to hit a "push draw" ? Nope. As gators pointed out they align themselves to the right.
Do NOT align square to your target, push it out right and draw it back left. Instead, ALIGN yourself those 4 degrees to the right, strengthen your grip just a tiny bit and swing normally. Instead of the face being dead square to the path/aiming line (4* right of target), with the slightly stronger grip, it'll be slightly closed to path at impact (2* right of target) and hit that little baby draw without ANY manipulation of the smaller, less stable and less reliable, wrist/finger muscles.
So you fulfill the path/clubface requirement to hit a draw but you make a normal, hopefully more repeatable, swing. No wrist manipulation(s). Want to hit a fade ? Reverse the procedure.
Do putting instructors not recommend simply rocking the shoulders and leave the rest of the body "quiet" ? Or, if not, use your more stable arms and leave the wrists/hands/etc "quiet" ? How many of them suggest using only the wrists ?
Take as many variables out of your swing as possible.

Well , i could do that , aim to the right and draw It back to the left. But still It was too much curve . Not easy to control . Sometimes is a draw , most of the times is an overdraw/hook .

I dont use wrist in my swing , at least consciously .I try to use dead hands/wrist. The arms "Rolling" excessively is what cause my hooks and the more relaxed I am the more I hook

Look this video starting at min 1:50. Thats what I'm doing more less . Tried more body rotation and more square setup , still my arms rotation cause the hooks , untill I weakened my right hand.

#3 is the closest description to what I do. I pick an alternate target to start the ball at so that the curve will take it back to where I want it to land. I know my club path's relation to my body aim line and use that to get the proper open/closed face angle for curved shots. I set my grip to make the ball curve a certain amount and then aim my body so the club will start the ball on the proper line. The clubface is ALWAYS aimed to a point closer to the landing point than my body. You have to train your eyes to accept the look of setup. Once you have that, you're good to go.

Lastly, I don't change anything with my swing. I swing the same to draw the ball as I do to fade the ball. The changes are all in the setup.

BT

nsxguy -

"Anyway, what is this "push draw" stuff anyway ? Push, or its twin cousin, pull, in my mind, are both negative results of a less than perfect swing. Why would I even try/tell myself to hit a "negative" shot ?"

The "push draw" stuff came from Trackman terminology. You and I grew up hitting draws and fades without having to add the push/pull because it was a given. If you didn't start a draw out right of the flag, it didn't work out too well. Same with starting a fade out left of the flag. It just didn't have to be said. But, Trackman only understands one target and that's the flag. Any launch line that starts right of the flag is considered a push. If it then curves, you get the push draw or push fade.

DISCLAIMER: All of the above info relates to a right handed golfer.

BT

The part of the video you asked me to look at deals with over rotation but here you say you don't use your wrists. If your wrist stay relatively stable you shouldn't be over rotating. So which is it ? Do you or don't you ? Perhaps you are over rotating without realizing it. We are often our own worst instructors.

That said, remember what instructors, books, and videos teach us about a "proper" grip. The V's created by each thumb and forefinger can point from the chin to the back shoulder. That's a fair bit of room for your grip to be "proper".

If you're swinging well and drawing the ball too much the fix MAY be as simple as weakening the grip a touch. All other things equal the ball should draw less. Too much fade ? Reverse it. Strengthen the grip slightly.

These small adjustments, while all golfers can use them of course, work mainly for better players as their swings are more consistent. They're mainly for "fine tuning".

You're an 18. Pretty much by definition your swing almost has to be inconsistent. So on one swing you over rotate and hook the ball too much. So on your next swing you might come "over the top" and pull hook it where the grip made zero difference. The small grip adjustment wasn't the problem of course, you just made a bad swing.

Point is, you really need to work on your swing mechanics and start striking the ball more consistently before "little tweaks" help

I understand wrist action as extension/flexion and ulnar/radial deviation .

And the movement I do is pronation/supination and that is a forearm rotation .

That's why I said I was using dead wrist . I'm not trying to do anything with them, and even the forearm rotation come mostly from the movement of the rest of my body . I try to keep arms very relaxed and work with my core movement.