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Low right miss. Shaft issue? LM numbers


wareagle12

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Hey wrx,
I have not been able to play much this year but have been trying to get back into the game after a year off. I was playing nippon spb x in ping s56 heads but wanted to go back to mizuno. I bought some jpx900 tours this year and shafted them with modus 120 in x. I like the feel of both of the shafts and the dispersion has been good with the modus. BUT, the launch is not. While I was building the mizunos, I played an old set with s300s and hit a ton of greens but couldn't get the long irons off the ground. Same story with mizunos. @Howard_Jones has said many times (hope I am remembering correctly) shaft is feel and dispersion and loft is for launch, so it has me thinking I need to add loft in the long irons but I have never done this and wanted some advice.
Club: jpx900 tour 7 iron. Loft 34 deg. Need to verify loft and lie.
Avg: B.spd 138, LA 11.0, Desc ang 41, spin 5500, carry 202
Club: jpx900 tour 5 iron. Loft 27 deg. Need to verify loft and lie
Avg: B.spd 144, LA 8.2, Desc ang 35, spin 5000, carry 210
I do miss the irons slightly towards the toe and shots can go way right. They're consistently fades which is my preferred ball flight, but I have sliced these things more than any irons I've had on misses. I don't know if it could be too flat of lie coupled with me trying to help the trajectory up for the right miss. Im willing to try anything but need to get the gaps correct on that end so I am thinking of adding 1 deg to 8 and 7, and then 2 deg to the 3-5 and get the lies checked when doing this. Should I look for different heads and shafts? Trying not to sink a ton of money into another set so just looking for some opinions. Getting fit likely isn't an option soon for me.

Driver- PING G400 VC 6.1 X
5 wood- Bridgestone J33 VS Proto
3-PW JPX 900 Tour SPR X
52,56,60 Ping Glide
Putter - Scotty Cameron TEi3 Newport

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Before you do anything definitely get the lofts checked. Or just go ahead and change the lofts until you get the gapping / carry you want. That's what I did when I fine tuned my Z785s.

Ping G430 LST 10.5* : Ventus Red TR 7S

Titleist TSR2 4W : Tensei 1K Black 85-S

Mizuno CLK 19*: Ventus Blue HB-8S

Srixon ZX Utility #4: Nippon Modus3 125-S

Wilson Staff CB 5-PW : Nippon Modus3 125-S

Cleveland Zipcore 50, 54, 58: Nippon Modus3 125-S 

Piretti Potenza 370g : Breakthrough Technology Stability Shaft - 34"

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Interesting data. Do you have any club data as well, are you just delivering super low dynamic loft with a shallow AoA or something? That's also fairly low spin for your speed and that static loft so I'd wonder whether if you just come in really shallow and lean the shaft heavily. Definitely get lofts checked and make sure they're not bent strong somehow, but assuming they're in line increasing them a degree or two might help, at least if you can't get fit right now it's certainly the easiest short-term "solution" (it may not actually solve the issue, but it will definitely help somewhat).

Driver: Ping G425 LST 9º (at 8º) Accra TZ5 65 M5

3 Wood: Taylormade SIM Ti 15º Accra TZ5 75 M5

3i/4i: Srixon Z785 Nippon Modus 120X (4i 1º weak)

5i-PW: Srixon Z-Forged Modus 120X

50º/54º/60º: Cleveland RTX 4 (Mid Bounce) Modus 120X (50º/54º) & DG TI S400 (60º)

Putter: Scotty Cameron Special Select Squareback 2 (33.75", 70º lie, 2.5º loft)

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If you liked the Nippon SPB, the Modus 125 is going to be a better fit than the Modus 120. Without getting on a launch monitor with club head data, it's hard to say what is happening, but there could be some more droop in the shaft causing the toe strike. Shaft can change launch/spin, not directly, but as a result of how that shaft causes you to deliver the club. I would first get the irons spec'd out and see if there are any outliers and get them bent/weighted correctly if needed, then go from there.

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Doesn't sound like a loft issue. Your delivery is basically hitting stingers with every club. If those ball speed numbers are accurate (insanely fast) you would be hitting that 7 iron 150 feet in the air with a neutral strike. One possibility is that the clubs are too long for you and you might improve delivery by choking up on the club. For example, I always choke up .5-1 inch on my driving iron from the fairway because I can launch it almost twice as high.

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I have an accusport vector pro. It's old, but the distances are pretty spot on and playing with the flightscope optimizer I would say they're very close. I don't trust the club data because it is so dependent on alignment with the LM.

This sounds likely like the problem.... I would guess somehow I'm swinging shallow but with tons of lag from the inside with open face. My pw is 15-19 deg launch angle depending on the day.

For spin- I naturally spin the ball fairly low. I don't really struggle with spin on the driver. What would be ideal with a 5 iron?

Driver- PING G400 VC 6.1 X
5 wood- Bridgestone J33 VS Proto
3-PW JPX 900 Tour SPR X
52,56,60 Ping Glide
Putter - Scotty Cameron TEi3 Newport

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This is interesting. Im 6'4 and have always played 1/2-1 inch over standard. These are playing off a 38.5 5 iron. I will try choking up and see what that does.

Driver- PING G400 VC 6.1 X
5 wood- Bridgestone J33 VS Proto
3-PW JPX 900 Tour SPR X
52,56,60 Ping Glide
Putter - Scotty Cameron TEi3 Newport

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I just tried this. No luck. Actually lowered launch a little. I can't really get a 7 iron higher than a 12 deg launch or so. I'm leaning towards a swing issue coupled with the shaft droop leading to a little toe impact and right miss.

 

Any other tips to try? Thanks for all the feedback so far!!!

Driver- PING G400 VC 6.1 X
5 wood- Bridgestone J33 VS Proto
3-PW JPX 900 Tour SPR X
52,56,60 Ping Glide
Putter - Scotty Cameron TEi3 Newport

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Awesome that you tried it out! Next thing to check is lie angles. Lie angles that are too flat lead to lower launch because you will subconsciously counter the face pointing right (flat) by hooding the face down in order to start the ball on line. Hooding the face drastically reduces the loft and will launch much lower and lie angles that are too flat generally promote a right miss. Most likely as a tall guy you need more upright clubs to begin with and if you are playing standard or even flat clubs it would lead to the issues you are seeing.

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So I just did the marker line test and they're definitely too flat. The impact with the wedge is about 1/4" towards the toe on five consecutive swings with the line tilted towards the heel. The impact in the 7 and 5 was less consistent but typically more centered on solid strikes and clearly also tilted towards the heel. If looking at a clock, I'd guess around 1-1:30. Any guess as to how much to start bending?

Driver- PING G400 VC 6.1 X
5 wood- Bridgestone J33 VS Proto
3-PW JPX 900 Tour SPR X
52,56,60 Ping Glide
Putter - Scotty Cameron TEi3 Newport

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Update: Got them bent 2 deg up from Mizuno standard. Hit on the range after and everything is still low and right. Is the tip stiff shaft making me deliver the head like this? Im about to sell them or pull the shafts....

Driver- PING G400 VC 6.1 X
5 wood- Bridgestone J33 VS Proto
3-PW JPX 900 Tour SPR X
52,56,60 Ping Glide
Putter - Scotty Cameron TEi3 Newport

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I don't think there is anything equipment wise that can cause someone to launch a 5-iron that insanely low. If you've been off for a year then something has likely just gone wonky in your mechanics/delivery to be producing launch conditions like that. Shafts are only going to be responsible for a couple degrees launch and a few hundred RPM of spin in either direction.

Titleist TSi3 9* Tensei AV White 65TX 2.0 // Taylormade SIM 9* Ventus TR Blue 6TX
Taylormade Stealth+ 16.5* Ventus Black 8x // Taylormade SIM Ti V2 16.5* Ventus TR Blue 7X
Callaway Apex UW 19* Ventus Black 8x // Srixon ZX Utility MKII 18* Graphite Design AD-IZ 95X
Callaway X-Forged Single Diamond 22* Nippon GOST Hybrid Tour X 
Bridgestone 
J40 DPC 4i-7i 24*- 35* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Bridgestone J40 CB 8i-PW 39*- 48* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0

Taylormade Milled Grind Raw 54* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey SM6 58* Oil Can Low Bounce K-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Scotty Cameron Newport Tour Red Dot || Taylormade Spider X Navy Slant

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I agree that the shaft isn't really causing the low launch, but I'm thinking it's causing me to deliver the club like this. Its definitely swing mechanics but i'm thinking the shaft is contributing to it. I usually see drastic changes in flight with shaft changes. I hit whiteboard type driver shafts just like this in the past....

Driver- PING G400 VC 6.1 X
5 wood- Bridgestone J33 VS Proto
3-PW JPX 900 Tour SPR X
52,56,60 Ping Glide
Putter - Scotty Cameron TEi3 Newport

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Did you start missing it left after bending the clubs upright? If so you are still hooding the face at impact which is reducing the loft. I have a similar miss low left with my 3wood and the fix is to keep the hands very passive through impact.

All that said it wouldn't hurt to try another setup. Different shafts can influence how you swing pretty significantly. For what it's worth I'm also a high speed player and tested Modus 120 T-X, X100s, and PX 6.5s with my blades. I could barely even get the club on the ball with the Modus while flushing both the X100 and PX 6.5s. With the Modus the feel was sooo bad and I couldn't even put a smooth swing on a wedge because it loads and kicks so weird. I'm talking low, thin, off center mishits on every swing with the Modus and flush center contact with the other 2 shafts.

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Yes went through all clubs and set 2 degrees upright from mizuno std. They weren't super consistent but werent terribly off. Lofts std. Didn't check swing weights but I'd guess d4-6 or so at plus 1/2".

 

I'm leaning swing issue but want to blame the shafts for causing it?

Driver- PING G400 VC 6.1 X
5 wood- Bridgestone J33 VS Proto
3-PW JPX 900 Tour SPR X
52,56,60 Ping Glide
Putter - Scotty Cameron TEi3 Newport

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@wareagle12 both the S300 and SPB are heavier than the 120X. That might be throwing off you timing / delivery.

Ping G430 LST 10.5* : Ventus Red TR 7S

Titleist TSR2 4W : Tensei 1K Black 85-S

Mizuno CLK 19*: Ventus Blue HB-8S

Srixon ZX Utility #4: Nippon Modus3 125-S

Wilson Staff CB 5-PW : Nippon Modus3 125-S

Cleveland Zipcore 50, 54, 58: Nippon Modus3 125-S 

Piretti Potenza 370g : Breakthrough Technology Stability Shaft - 34"

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I hit the s300 low as well. I hit the SPB probably with twice the peak trajectory in the mid irons if not more... the only reason I swapped was I wanted something slightly lighter so I wouldn't get as tired swinging them at the end of a round. Seems like I just made a mistake. Now I'm not sure what to try next as my SPB are gone and they're hard to come by. I'd still like something that swings a little easier.

As for the swing- I actually think I'm stabbing the club too steep either due to the weight like you said or due to the balance with the tip stiff. I think the steepness is actually doing it. I manipulated my swing what felt super flat and the launch jumped and so did spin but it was so unnatural to my normal swing. I hate to swap again... I have had good results with spb, px flighted, pxi, don't hate c taper but don't want to use them because of tip bending. Based on what I've read here, I probably should've went with the modus 130 if I wanted to stay with Nippon and I think Mark tried to tell me that... I'll see if my course has one to demo... oh well live and learn I guess.

Driver- PING G400 VC 6.1 X
5 wood- Bridgestone J33 VS Proto
3-PW JPX 900 Tour SPR X
52,56,60 Ping Glide
Putter - Scotty Cameron TEi3 Newport

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I think you're right. The shaft is a noodle towards my hands and I think it's causing me to deloft somehow and with the stiff tip it's not adding any dynamic loft with the way im delivering it. Like I said, with the spb literally right before I started hitting these, the peak height was at least double with the mid irons. My cousin has 919t with px so I will try to hit them as well. The course I just joined has a trackman so I'll see if I can get on it soon and compare with different shafts to see if the shaft is causing the swing issue or if it's independent. With these shafts I can put the ball on my left foot and still hit a stinger.....

Driver- PING G400 VC 6.1 X
5 wood- Bridgestone J33 VS Proto
3-PW JPX 900 Tour SPR X
52,56,60 Ping Glide
Putter - Scotty Cameron TEi3 Newport

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Have you hit the spb? I'm fine with the weight but it just felt like I needed to get after it with the blue so they kind of wore me out because of the break I guess. If the 130 swings 'easier' the weight will likely help me shallow out. I might try the 130 in stiff since I don't really have high spin issues.

Driver- PING G400 VC 6.1 X
5 wood- Bridgestone J33 VS Proto
3-PW JPX 900 Tour SPR X
52,56,60 Ping Glide
Putter - Scotty Cameron TEi3 Newport

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im late to the party, but it seems to be a weight / balance issue.

You have gone down on shaft weight (loosing SW), and toe side impact is you mishit now (head weight is too low), and probably to much forward shaft lean (balance, head, shaft grip) , but you have not checked SW values......i think the last is where you can dial in to make it work.

Get a roll of lead tape and add a stripe at the time, try to sense the club head at the bottom of the swing, see if impact moves more constant to the center, and look at ball flight...

Just tune with lead tape until the feel is right and impact pattern tighter. (go a bit over and beyond and dial back)

 

 

DO NOT SEND PMs WITH CLUB TECH QUESTIONS - USE THE PUBLIC FORUM.

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Thanks Howard! I'm going to the range tomorrow to try the 919t with a project x to see if ballflight changes. I'll take a roll of lead tape and try this as well. If I can't get this combo to work, I'll look at a different profile and get back into the 130g weight class.

Driver- PING G400 VC 6.1 X
5 wood- Bridgestone J33 VS Proto
3-PW JPX 900 Tour SPR X
52,56,60 Ping Glide
Putter - Scotty Cameron TEi3 Newport

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Im not as fast as you, my 35 degree 7 iron is 125ish bs, 180ish carry. Ive hit the 130 x and stiff, but not the Spb. The x is definitely stiffer but is no means a telephone pole. The stiff loads nicely for me. I didnt notice any difference in trajectory between the two, and they both produced a nice high trajecteory with low/mid spin. Big fan of modus line, great products.

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