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The origin of bad instruction has been Hogan's book

 Nels55 ·  
Nels55Nels55 Members  501WRX Points: 267Handicap: 6.8Posts: 501 Golden Tee
Joined:  in Hogan's Heroes Swing Forum #1

Quote of Brandel Chamblee:

Thoughts?

Posted:

Driver Mizuno ST190 9.5* / Paderson Ballistic KG70-D40. Hybrids: 3 and 4 Rogue / Steelfiber HLS980. Irons 5 through Wedge PXG 0311 / Steelfiber i110. Wedges 50*, 56*, 62* MacDaddy 4 / Steelfiber i110.

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  • farmerfarmer Members  8893WRX Points: 1,327Posts: 8,893 Titanium Tees
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    When I was young, everyone seemed to go through a Hogan phase. I fought it for a year, read the words off the page, and all I got was a big slice. I did not, however, buy the cap or pleated pants.

    Posted:
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  • molecularmanmolecularman Joplin, MOMembers  220WRX Points: 137Posts: 220 Fairways
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    I get where he is coming from. You can read what Hogan wrote and take it as an authoritative guide and how one should swing the golf club. We know Hogan didn't do some of the things he wrote about. We know certain swing ideas don't fit certain body types.


    Being a bit younger, I'd say McLean's X-Factor has been the single worst concept in golf instruction

    Posted:
  • Nels55Nels55 Members  501WRX Points: 267Handicap: 6.8Posts: 501 Golden Tee
    Joined:  edited Jul 31, 2020 2:29am #4

    I think that Chamblee is pretty much wrong. First Hogan's book describes Hogan's swing pretty well imho. Secondly the book has not been a major focus for tour swings for most of my lifetime anyway. When I was young everyone swung like Jack Nicklaus and it was not until Hank Haney started coaching Mark O'Meara to 'swing on a flat plane' that the I remember a lot of mention of Hogan's book. I would say that Jimmy Ballard and as @molecularman mentions Jim McLean were more responsible for the things that Chamblee rails against then 'Five Lessons'.

    Chamblee is interesting to listen to but he does seem to come up with some crazy stuff!

    Posted:
    Post edited by Nels55 on

    Driver Mizuno ST190 9.5* / Paderson Ballistic KG70-D40. Hybrids: 3 and 4 Rogue / Steelfiber HLS980. Irons 5 through Wedge PXG 0311 / Steelfiber i110. Wedges 50*, 56*, 62* MacDaddy 4 / Steelfiber i110.

  • jholzjholz Members  1955WRX Points: 631Handicap: 7.4Posts: 1,955 Platinum Tees
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    Chamblee is prone to hyperbole, for sure.

    As far as "5 Lessons" is concerned, I found it to be very helpful as a means of understanding the basics of the golf swing. I came to the book in the middle of my 40 year history of playing golf, when I was in my late 20's and getting reintroduced to the game after taking several years off during college, etc.

    Before reading the book, I never thought much about the golf swing, how it works, or how it should work. I went out and hit the ball. After reading that book, I knew the concepts, the vocabulary, the positions, etc. to rebuild my game, understand my results, and competently talk about the golf swing with a professional. That is what you should get out of "5 Lessons," IMHO. Not a whole lot more.

    The instant that Chamblee starts to describe everything that is wrong with Hogan, he departs from "fundamentals" and gets lost in the weeds. For my own part, the only thing that I retain of "5 Lessons" is stance (slightly flared left foot) and ball position. The book should be a starting point. The journey, from there out, is on your own.

    Posted:
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  • LobbyLobby Members  125WRX Points: 110Posts: 125 Fairways
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    ****, I still don't know what pronate or supinate mean.

    Posted:
  • Nels55Nels55 Members  501WRX Points: 267Handicap: 6.8Posts: 501 Golden Tee
    Joined:  edited Jul 29, 2020 5:36pm #7

    I used to know those definitions and when I want to remember I google:

    Paul Bertholy had a way to remember supinate and pronate by saying 'sup is up' meaning when you arm supinates the palm is facing up.

    Posted:

    Driver Mizuno ST190 9.5* / Paderson Ballistic KG70-D40. Hybrids: 3 and 4 Rogue / Steelfiber HLS980. Irons 5 through Wedge PXG 0311 / Steelfiber i110. Wedges 50*, 56*, 62* MacDaddy 4 / Steelfiber i110.

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  • molecularmanmolecularman Joplin, MOMembers  220WRX Points: 137Posts: 220 Fairways
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    The way I always remember it from school... you have to supinate to hold a bowl of soup.

    Posted:
  • JeselnikJeselnik Members  24WRX Points: 10Posts: 24 Bunkers
    Joined:  edited Jul 30, 2020 2:02pm #9

    JNIK

    Posted:
    Post edited by Jeselnik on
  • uitar9uitar9 Members  475WRX Points: 130Handicap: LOLPosts: 475 Greens
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    I like reading both of the Hogan books: They speak to me. I don't understand most modern instruction unless it uses thing like "plain English". Yes, I'm old and haven't a clue about any modern hitting devices. I appreciate the old timey illustrations/ pictures. The books are straight forward. No wonder Chamblee doesn't like them. They never mention him.

    Posted:
    KZG OS11 12 degree driver
    Calloway 16 5-wood
    Calloway 20.5 heavenwood
    Cobra 24.5 9-wood
    KZG 5-PW irons
    KZG 52 and 56 and cobra 60 wedges
    TM Spider mallet
  • KMeloneyKMeloney Members  5091WRX Points: 346Handicap:[email protected] 7Posts: 5,091 Titanium Tees
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    OP -- That was a very interesting video. Thanks for posting it. There will be folks who don't watch it who will just malign BC because they don't like him, but I now understand exactly where he (and the two others) stand on the use of technology in teaching (and the fact that technology has been able to confirm or deny what players have said they do in their own swings).

    To your topic header, it's a bit of an oversimplification of the matter, but, yes, 5 Lessons appears to be ground-zero from which a lot of "incorrect" or "unhelpful" swing ideas went viral, according to BC. I cam certainly see his point after watching the video.

    Posted:
  • uitar9uitar9 Members  475WRX Points: 130Handicap: LOLPosts: 475 Greens
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    Was reading the beginning of the last chapter today, interesting how Hogan says ...its based on what he has learned over 25 years...and that in 25 years more will be learned...now its an algorithm. I would love to see the time when the next code writer tells us how track man had bad code.

    I'm going golfing tomorrow...not gone play golf swing,,,not gonna play golf algo....

    Posted:
    KZG OS11 12 degree driver
    Calloway 16 5-wood
    Calloway 20.5 heavenwood
    Cobra 24.5 9-wood
    KZG 5-PW irons
    KZG 52 and 56 and cobra 60 wedges
    TM Spider mallet
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
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  • JeselnikJeselnik Members  24WRX Points: 10Posts: 24 Bunkers
    Joined:  edited Today @ 2:09am #13

    5 Lessons would have been more effective if it taught basic motion via chipping and the idea of educated hands & pivot training.

    Hogan is the pinnacle of educated hands.


    JNIK


    Posted:
    Post edited by Jeselnik at

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