Jack Nicklaus on Today's players

Jack Nicklaus: Some PGA Tour players 'don't want to work as hard as Tiger Woods worked'

Hard to argue with this and today's that's quite apparent.

eh, not exactly a revelation there ...

Some don't, but some always will regardless of how much money they have. And this isn't new to just today's players, even back then some guys just didn't work as hard even if they needed the money more.

Jack didn't mention that Bruce Lietzky didn't work very hard at the game, and made a fine living while not playing in as many tournaments as most of his peers.

I'd be in the same boat if I could. Making millions and enjoying life and playing golf for a living. Call me Briny and I'm buying the first round.

Tiger made golf lucrative for even the average tour pro. But for some guys, they treat it just like a job. They would obviously like to win, but not all guys have that extra 'drive' to be the best. Some are perfectly comfortable making a nice living, travelling and being with family. Nothing wrong with either.

Nothing new. That's the way of the world in any profession. Back in Jack's day, some of his tour peers could make more money hustling locals or playing calcuttas before a tournament.

One thing that is almost certain, no one, unless Tiger makes a final run, is going to threaten his major record. Ever.

Back in the day, Butch Baird worked as hard as anyone. When I went tournaments live, I would be leaving at the end of the day, and there would be Butch, still beating balls. He wanted to win, tried to win, he just wasn't good enough. The last tournament I went to, there were guys on the range all the time. Guys work hard, but they are not as innately talented as Jack and Tiger, so they cannot do what Jack and Tiger have done as a routine matter.

Firing shots at Fowler and Finau.

It's the way of the world. Happened in football, baseball, and basketball too. I think most players would prefer to win but there's a lot of competition out there and guys get hot for a week on fairly easy setups and start making a bunch of birdies. It doesn't mean they don't work hard at it. It's just a different time, there's more competition, and they are fortunate that the Tour has been a money making machine for all of them. The Majors are still the great separator. You don't luck your way into winning those and usually the guys that do have worked hard to get there.

I believe I heard that Al Kaline (Mr. Detroit Tiger) made $100k, the last year he played. That's gambling $$ now days. The evolution of sports thru TV has allowed the players of all sports to make considerable more money than their predecessors.

All of today's golfers can really thank Tiger though because he made it considerably more popular and exciting which drew TV markets and their $$.

Unless you're Danny Willett.

Those shots landed somewhere either in the lawn of Fowler's 15,000 mansion or in Tony's in Scottsdale.

That's Jack's whole point. Guys make so much now they don't need to win a lot or finish that high often to be filthy rich.

And my point is that they make so much money they could care less about Jack's [veiled] criticism. Basically, give him the, "OK Boomer," treatment and go back to their indoor basketball courts or olympic sized jacuzzis filled with Fillico water.

I don't blame them, it's a moment for an 'Ok Bear'

Not sure what really his point is.

Seems like old Jack wants to take the players back to the good old days by rolling back the ball. If he succeed, the players income will drop dramatically. Golf has evolved where as more player can live comfortably and that's a good thing.

I would be utterly shocked if today's players weren't working as hard, or even harder, than yesterday's. What a crock.

I've always said that Jack is the smartest golfer who ever lived. Here he proves it again by seeming to compliment Tiger, when what he's really doing is saying he had tougher competition than Tiger.

The truth is that most players today work much harder than most players of the 60's, who rarely saw the inside of a gym, and who rolled their eyes at Hogan, one of the very few who spent as much time on the range as the average pro today.

This is almost exactly the 55th anniversary of a Mark McCormack (the agent for Jack, Arnie, and Gary) article in Sports Illustrated, July 26, 1965, page 16. In it, he lamented how PGA golfers in 1965 didn't need to win anymore, because they could earn a good living from endorsements and top 25 money. He quotes Arnie expressing the same sentiments.

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"I have been privileged to see what pro golf is like in many other countries, and some conclusions can be drawn. For one thing, foreign players work at their games harder than we do. They have to. It takes them longer to reach the peak of their profession, because in order to make a good living they have to become the best in their country. They cannot earn a good living, let alone be financially comfortable, by being the 25th leading money winner, or even the fifth, on their tour. Because it takes longer to succeed, the foreigners turn pro younger—Player and Crampton at 17—so they get an earlier start working at their livelihood. Their attitude, of necessity, is one of hard work.

This is not always true of America's young pros, many of whom have financial backing on the tour. Palmer summed it up well recently when he was quoted as follows: 'I don't think it's a good idea for our young players to compete without any real financial incentive, which is what happens when you have a sponsor. These kids don't know what it is like to have to win in order to survive. They know they don't need to win to make a lot of money—more money than they ever dreamed of.'

Palmer and Nicklaus have a competitive attitude that is more the exception than the rule among Americans. All along, their main desire has been to win, win, win, regarding the money as a byproduct. Money was never the driving force that made them the best. One cannot help but wonder how truly great some of our best-known pros might have been if they had only had more of this killer instinct, this win-or-else approach. For a lot of our best-known American pros the challenge seems to be winning enough money to live comfortably. After that, they don't seem to care what happens."

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I wish I had a nickel for every time somebody in a Tiger vs Jack debate told me that the pros in the 60's and 70's were a lot hungrier than the pros today, because they needed to win to feed their families. Even if the quote above didn't prove that false, it seems obvious to me that if you need prize money to feed your family, then you are LESS likely to go for a risky shot to win when you are in second place, knowing that if you miss, you may fall to tenth and barely earn enough to pay your caddy. Players today will be multimillionaires with consistent top ten finishes, so there is no reason not to go for the win.

My only issue with Jack's statement is that he seems to think guys can just coast along and keep their cards. Outside of the very top guys, I just don't think that is the case.

It's a very fine line between making a great living and getting delegated back to the Korn Ferry tour.

Jack's right, players don't need to win in order to have a nice check, add it up over a year, the money made is very good. Consistently finish in the top 15 at every tournament they play, very lucrative.

That's the facts.

-Jack

Seem like a classic case of the "Back in my days". A lot of posters along with Jack thinks everything was harder and better when they were coming up. To equate work ethic with financial stability is ridiculous. Golf payouts are finally trying to catch up with other major sports therefore getting better athletes. They're still hungry, it just that they now can afford to fly to a tournament instead of driving across country. with all the money on the PGATOUR, I would think that the competition to get there is rather furious...

Why do you think that distance and money are linked so?

"To equate work ethic with financial stability is ridiculous."

There's a lot to ponder in that statement.

Some guys win a lot of money, and don't want to be the physical wreck that Tiger Woods is.

I think people forget what exactly "professional" means. It's a profession. A way to earn a living. If guys are living the life they want, and making the money they need, so be it.

I usually agree with Nicklaus on things, but not this. After seeing up close how athletes are treated in all sports by those who control the purse strings, I won't criticize a player for making their own decision on their career. It's a nice thing to say that "guys should work harder" or whatever, but this is a job, not a game. It makes it a tougher sell to the paying public, but people would do well to remember that it's a job. Quite a good one, sure, but a job nonetheless. Be away from your family as much as these guys and see what you think.

No different than Matt Stafford in Detroit (NFL). I heard an argument the other day that the guy has "elite qb skills" but since he is in Detroit he will never be considered elite due to not winning. I think you can argue Barry Sanders was one of, if not the greatest running back ever from a talent standpoint but the winning is lacking. I'd be willing to bet both made/are making good incomes however.

I think in golf there are guys who have the talent to put themselves in a position to win and when things line up they do win. Then there is a group of guys with the talent to go out and take a win. It's a different level of talent that working hard or not really doesn't impact. You reach a point of diminishing returns with practice and you hit a "talent ceiling." You work to be the best you can be. If that means perennial major winner or regular top 15 guy you should accept it and work with what you have. Get the most out of your natural talent, that's all you can really ask.

So does JN think Rickie and Finau are not doing that? I guess he does. I don't think Finau is intentionally flaking out in the final round. He just hasn't developed his talent (mental fortitude included as a talent) to the point it needs to be to be on level with his physical talent. It's hard for me to tell whether a guy is spending enough time on the mental side of the game. Maybe Jack can? How does he know that Rickie needs two hours of range time working on knockdown wedge shots and that one hour is not enough for Rickie to feel good with where he is?

Security makes you complacent. I guess in JN's view the only way you hone that "winning instinct" is to be hand to mouth money-wise?

Why do you think that distance and money are linked so?

and Rolling back the ball will reduce players incomes.

I'd like to hear that explanation as well. LOL

Makes no sense. People will still watch golf and that’s why the players make money not like there a bonus check for long drivers only.

They definitely are. How many players back then employed personal chefs/nutritionists, a personal trainer, swing coach, sports psychologists, etc? It's so competitive now that those things are essential for many players just to even maintain a tour card year after year let alone ever reaching top 10 in OWGR. I don't even think it's so much the not putting in the work that is holding some players back as much as it is managing the distractions of life in the 21st century (sponsorships, social media, branding, etc).