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Hitting at PGASS bay: help me decipher these numbers please (Callaway MAVRIK). Club recommendations?

 RoyalMustang ·  
RoyalMustangRoyalMustang Members  86WRX Points: 32Posts: 86 Fairways
Joined:  in WRX Club Techs #1

I have been out of the game for 25 years (since I was 14 years old) but the past 3 weeks I have had 4 range sessions and 2 rounds (along with a few short game sessions). I am trying to get back into the game. All of the data available now wasn't around when I was playing as a kid and I have no idea what it means in terms to choosing a iron set.

I had to go to PGASS today to pick up a right handed glove (TX in the summer=wet and sweat). A bay was open and a nice gentleman allowed me to hit a couple of irons: TM SIM and Callaway MAVRIK. He started me off with a regular shaft and swapped out to a stiff shaft. I didn't know I was in the market for new clubs, but I found out today that my lie on my old Ping Eye 2s is off by quite a lot: I am 5 foot 9 but have **** arms and need at least an Orange lie while I currently have Black. These aren't adjustable unfortunately and I have been really struggling with the clubs.

Here is what I got from my MAVRIK session today:

Club: 7-iron

Carry distance: average 180 (range 168-186)

Dispersion: almost uniform draw, -3 to 25 yards left, average 18 yards left. In 40 balls I only went right 3 times.

Ball speed: range 118-126, average 121 mph

Spin: 5100-5900, average 5350.

What do these numbers tell me with regards to the club and stiffness? I have a very natural draw as my hips get ahead of the rest of my swing (lacking patience which I hope to develop). Clubhead speed is correct for the stiff shaft? How do I get those spin numbers up? Honestly, that is a VERY strong 7-iron for me and I would trade some spin for distance. Back as a kid when I played a lot, I was definitely smaller but was hitting the 7-iron 145 or so. I figure with modern balls and being 170lbs instead of 120 lbs, I would gain maybe 20 yards.

The next time I go back, I would like to hit different clubs. What would you recommend? The gentleman who helped me put me in those 2 clubs as I couldn't offer him any sort of guidance as to what I would need; he just said they were popular with a lot of players and very forgiving. Once he saw some numbers however, he said I may want to look at something that would enhance spin but not give up forgiveness.

Any tips for curing a draw?



  • RoyalMustangRoyalMustang Members  86WRX Points: 32Posts: 86 Fairways
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    Also, forgot to note that my average vertical launch angle was 19.1 degrees, which I was told was about right for a modern 7-iron. It was in a tight range between 18-20, except for a couple of thin shots.

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  • ValtielValtiel Konica-Minolta Bizhub Members  4015WRX Points: 2,013Handicap: 1.7Posts: 4,015 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Aug 1, 2020 12:20am #3

    As I said in the other thread, you are always going to be limited by "as I couldn't offer him any sort of guidance as to what I would need".

    That said though, the Mavrik 7-iron is 1.5* degrees STRONGER than your old Ping Eye2 5-iron, hence the distance and spin numbers. You were hitting a strong 5, not a 7 based on what you're used to. Bending lofts weaker then is the easiest way to add spin, but most big box stores won't do that for you, you'd need to order them that way.

    Regarding shafts, stiffness is a function of feel, not a function of numbers, which in this case don't really tell us anything. Speed wise, you're in a fine range for a standard stiff flex, but that will vary greatly by the type and weight of shaft, which you did not mention.

    Regarding your draw, there are a dozen different things that could be causing it which at minimum would require full swing video for anyone to give you suggestions. Don't listen to anyone that tries to make them without at least that. It is also not the worst thing in the world if it is consistent, as you can play for that.

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  • ProphetLogicProphetLogic Members  625WRX Points: 194Posts: 625 Golden Tee
    Joined:  edited Aug 1, 2020 2:25am #4

    The ball will also spin less off a mat than grass, so given the loft of those irons your spin numbers might be pretty good.

  • Jeff58Jeff58 Bend OregonMembers  357WRX Points: 234Posts: 357 Greens
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    As you’ve seen, lofts on newer iron sets can be substantially stronger than traditional models. To some extent, that’s correct and appropriate, as their center of gravity has been moved back and down, such that they naturally launch higher, and the stronger lofts are merely counteracting that effect.

    Some models, the Mavrik and Sim being perhaps the two most glaring examples, have taken loft jacking to a new level of abstraction. There is a price to pay, which is typically the loss of spin, as well as distance precision. IMO consider something like the Ping i210, which is about as close to a current incarnation of the Eye2 as currently exists.

  • gdb99gdb99 Members  2020WRX Points: 286Handicap: 5.6Posts: 2,020 Platinum Tees
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    You could send your Pings back to the factory to have the lie angle bent.

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  • RoyalMustangRoyalMustang Members  86WRX Points: 32Posts: 86 Fairways
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    Ah, I didn't realize that was an option. I thought they didn't bend well and therefore introduced the "dot" system.

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  • RoyalMustangRoyalMustang Members  86WRX Points: 32Posts: 86 Fairways
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    Yeah, now that I see the specs on these, I realize the trade-offs! I thought they were maybe a club stronger, not 2. I suppose someone like me walks in to a store, sees they are hitting really well (distance-wise) and doesn't realize it is the club spec and not the swing. I will see if they have the i210 to try out, and I will look for clubs with bigger lofts (not sure if that is stronger or weaker in golf parlance-it seems that a strong loft should be a higher-bigger loft as the loft's goal is to create vertical distance over a short horizontal distance and a stronger loft (45 instead of 40) does exactly that. A weaker loft should be lower (like the Mavrik), right?)

  • CJ17CJ17 Members  39WRX Points: 20Posts: 39 Bunkers
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    Nah you have it backwards. When people say “strong lofts” they mean lower lofts then normal, like a 30 degree 7 iron instead of a 34. This means that the club will launch a little lower with less spin and more distance. Lofts themselves dont matter if you have distance control with each club. The problem most have with stronger lofts though is that these are coupled with “hot” faces on some irons, which in turns means you can get some random strikes that you pure but they go 10 yards further than you wanted, which totally defeats the purpose of the iron.

    Best bet is to find whatever iron feels good enough and has the best dispersion, both with distance and offline shots. Better to have your irons perhaps not go quite as far as some others but be able to hit a certain number every time as opposed to guessing.

  • RoyalMustangRoyalMustang Members  86WRX Points: 32Posts: 86 Fairways
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    Ah, got it! That is how I have been hitting my current Ping Eye 2s: if I get a really solid strike the ball just flies (too far!): on my last round I flew 3 Par-3 holes that were between 155-175 as I struck the ball too well each time and flew the green by 15 yards. I would like to tighten up that dispersion; that sounds like it should be the goal of trying new clubs and what to look for on the monitor from now on

  • TigerInTheWoodsTigerInTheWoods Members  2715WRX Points: 1,704Handicap: 3Posts: 2,715 Titanium Tees
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    Do a proper fitting at a proper fitter. Nothing wrong with picking up a little distance with stronger lofts but I'd be careful going down that road as you just end up playing 5-GW instead of 4-PW. Or, in extreme cases you have to add a bunch of "pitching" and gap wedges because you have a 42 or 43* PW which is actually a 9 iron.

    I'll leave this here:


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  • Snowman9000Snowman9000 Members  1438WRX Points: 319Handicap: 10Posts: 1,438 Platinum Tees
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    Ping might not bend the Eye2 irons any more. You can check. I’ve bent them, they can be bent by an experienced clubmaker.

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  • Golf64Golf64 Go Habs Go! Ontario, CanadaMembers  8506WRX Points: 496Handicap: ScotchPosts: 8,506 Titanium Tees
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    Head first, then fine tune with shaft in a fitting. i210s helped me increase my spin and a ball with also help with that. Since you draw the ball, PX LZ might help with that?! Mizuno shaft optimizer will help with some suggestions for a shaft. Sometimes going a bit flatter lie and a bit bigger grip might help with your draw too?!

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  • mgoblue83mgoblue83 Members  403WRX Points: 204Handicap: 2Posts: 403 Greens
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    Be very skeptical of the numbers you were seeing. There is a high chance they aren't very accurate and/or purposely juiced to influence buyers. I'd go to a reputable golf shop where you can demo clubs outdoors and see the actual ball flight as many launch monitors (Foresight especially) tend to be more draw biased.

    Last thought:

    You seem to have a reasonably repeatable swing with above average speed. I'd take this opportunity to look into getting a players iron that may not fly as far on paper (weaker lofts, smaller head) but will help you improve faster and won't need to be replaced for a very long time. Those Sim and Mav irons you were testing are essentially game improvement hybrids designed for maximum distance and forgiveness which sounds great but isn't really golf.

  • RoyalMustangRoyalMustang Members  86WRX Points: 32Posts: 86 Fairways
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    Great idea on the shaft and grip! I hadn't thought of that but a larger grip may be a key reason I am turning the club over.

  • RoyalMustangRoyalMustang Members  86WRX Points: 32Posts: 86 Fairways
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    Thanks! I hopefully won't need a super game improvement iron: I want to get to a consistent point where spin and distance are repeatable. I do have a natural draw at full swing but at 3/4 to 7/8 swing basically hit the ball pretty straight. Lack of flexibility may be an issue on the full swings. I played a round yesterday and 2 of my best shots were 7/8 swings on my 9-iron (44 degrees) with loads of launch angle, 150 yards, and spun back a couple of feet from the ball divot. That is the swing I am capable of making. Off the tee though, I couldn't hit a full swing to save my life; I would have been better off hitting that 9-iron in several instances.

    I am not going to worry about clubs for now: the grips may be a factor I can look into temporarily.

  • RoyalMustangRoyalMustang Members  86WRX Points: 32Posts: 86 Fairways
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    I had an offer to borrow a set of clubs that fit my lie and length a bit better (1 degree flat, -1/2 inch); they were Callaway Epic w/graphite shafts. I got a round in with them and really liked them; the main thing I noticed was the weight difference and the fact that they were easy to "swing easy". Balls with contact were great: I am super inconsistent still but I seem to be isolating my troubles. Basically, when I draw to hook the ball, I am not relaxed and paused at the top of my swing; weight transfer doesn't happen well and I open up. When I pause and relax, then get the hips and weight transfer moving, I hit the ball well with more height and a lot more spin (not to mention straight).

    I don't know much about the Epic (except that they were super expensive back in the day: these are my neighbor's clubs) with a stiff shaft, but I had some good balls: 5-iron carry 220 right down the fairway: 8-iron 172 to within 10 feet of the pin and a bit of backspin, and a PW fired right at the pin from 150 with lots of backspin. He also has a Mizuno Fli-hi 2-iron and I was able to hit that one 270 with roll. Crazy height too! I liked these a lot better. The weight is also lower: on my scale, nearly 30g less than the Ping Eye 2. These traveled further when I hit the ball a little thin: the PE2's boom when hit well but fall way short on a semi-miss. I was still hitting greens with these when I had a decent but less than stellar swing.

    I see the Epic is a Game Improvement iron with a Maltby number of 560-should I start by looking here or move into the more "conventional" category. If anything, I definitely have to get the Pings fitted. I want to be able to grow with my clubs.

    My checklist is:

    1) fix my swing (make it consistent, so that I hit my good swings happen most of the time)

    2) get clubs fitted so that i know what I need

    3) either fit the PE2s, or if they need new shafts, look for something used that I can grow with, based on the fitting

    4) continue to fix my swing

    5) during this time, continue to clean up my short game and minimize dumb mistakes.


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