Handicap Deflation Issues

I've noticed that my handicap doesn't usually travel well to short, tight courses. I'm a 0.6 currently but my home course is 7,200 yards and has a course rating of over 75 (my average score is around 79). I'm a somewhat long driver (SS 116, Carry 290) so the length doesn't provide any real challenge for me. In addition most holes on my home course have one side you can miss on off the tee and still be in play, which is huge for me because on off days I can be quite erratic off the tee. When I play "easier" golf courses I can have a good day off the tee and shoot around 74 (CR around 72) but if I'm spraying it a round in the 80's is in the cards. Another factor that makes my home couse easier for me to score on is that there are 5 par 5's, four of which are under 570 and thus reachable in two. Today, for example, I hit driver-7i and made eagle on 18 for a 77. Do any of you guys have a similar issue to this?

My home course is Crandon Golf at Key Biscayne btw.

I know what you mean. There's a course around here that I always say is a handicap reduction guarantee for me.

Its 7100yds with trouble all down the left (I couldn't miss left if I tried) and straightforward greens.

Some courses just suit you, sounds like your home course is perfect for you

Part of the problem is the course rating system places an overly heavy (IMO) weighting on length. Additionally the adjustments for obstacles, etc are (again IMO) too subjective.

.6 HC and you shoot in the 80's when you're spraying it?

Erratic from the tee?

Driver, 7-iron, eagle on a 555-yard hole.........and you're somewhat long, carrying 290? ........................roll out to 325 - that leaves a smooth 230-yard 7-iron?

Curious...............

Sounds like you need to leave driver in the bag on the shorter courses. If length isn't an issue for you, then favor a club off the tee that you have a higher chance of keeping it in play with.

Looks like your headed for a hc reset, your scores are becoming erratic. Reign in some control, distance is your friend, but it looks like its costing you some scoring opportunities. Time to look at your misses, make some corrections.

This scenario isn't at all crazy. My better ball partner is a 2 handicap who can shoot between low 70s and low 90s depending on how straight he is off the tee.
Also, distances on par 5's don't account for doglegs. For example, there is a risk reward par 5 at a course near me that measures 480 on the card, but if you hit a drive over the trees you are left with wedge in. Doesn't mean I drove it 400 yards or I hit my wedge 180.

Tees were up to about 510 yesterday, hit my drive 320, 7i from 190. And yes, I'm very erratic off the tee. I can usually swing to miss on one side of the hole but if I'm playing a course with water/ob on both sides and having a bad day things don't go well

Is the purpose of your handicap to give an indication of how good you are so that you can more fairly compete with people of a different skill level, or is it so you can feel good about yourself?
Since your ego apparently won’t let you make the right club selection on tight holes, I would guess it’s the latter.

I wish that were the issue. On by bad days I struggle almost as much to put my 2-iron in the fairway as I do with my driver.

The thing about hcp and winning net games is this: it's not about the scores that count; it's about the scores that don't. 

I changed clubs from one that was par 72, 72.3/132 to a par 70, 69.5/128 from the regular men's tees. The par 70 is short on paper but has diabolical greens and plays much longer. My scoring average hasn't changed but my handicap went from 6.1 to a 9.0 in three months. 

I'm learning to live with it, but I agree that yardage goes too much into course ratings. Shooting a 78-79 feels like losing ground in terms of differentials, meanwhile in June I played one of the hardest courses in the US at 75.9/151. Shot an 87 and carded a 9.1 differential lol. 

Joining my club back in the spring saw my index jump from 4.1 to a 7.7 because the course is rated so low (par 72, 70.8/136) because it's short from the blue tees (6400 yds).  But the rough is thick and its half a stroke penalty if you miss the fairway.  And the greens are small and slopey.  I'm back down to 5.1 but I have to shoot basically 73/74 to see that drop any farther.

Exact reason why I miss my previous private courses and team match play.  My index was built on a very challenging course.  When we competed at other courses, most tended to be easier than my home course so I won a lot of matches.  It was really fun when other clubs visited our club to compete, talk about excuses flowing...LOL  Even though I am without a home private club for the time being, after many years of playing two really challenging courses, its still unusual for me to encounter a course that gets my challenge dander up.  Damn, I love this game.

1 hour ago, GooseHook said:

I changed clubs from one that was par 72, 72.3/132 to a par 70, 69.5/128 from the regular men's tees. The par 70 is short on paper but has diabolical greens and plays much longer. My scoring average hasn't changed but my handicap went from 6.1 to a 9.0 in three months. 

 

I'm learning to live with it, but I agree that yardage goes too much into course ratings. Shooting a 78-79 feels like losing ground in terms of differentials, meanwhile in June I played one of the hardest courses in the US at 75.9/151. Shot an 87 and carded a 9.1 differential lol. 

I can relate. My club has two courses that have both hosted PGA tour events for the last 20 years and they each have course ratings at 76.5 and tips out around 7,500 yards. Just an absolute brutal test for us mortals. 

Learn to hit a high % fairway finder with driver on shorter courses.... you can carry 290 well try an easy 250 shot.  I like to play softer driver shots instead of running to 3 wood.... easy as Sunday morning

I don't think the handicap system weights tight courses well at all.  But then again, they rate for the "250-yard scratch" golfer, and the "200-yard bogey golfer".  If you're a 300-yard golfer your dispersion pattern and distance is beyond the rating criteria.  Yet, you you use your distance (and a course that is not nearly as tight) to achieve your handicap.  The handicap system needs a reset.  Nearly all scratch golfers these days hit in the neighborhood of 300, not 250, and courses should be rated with that in mind.

I play a tight course, hit my driver 300, and think my handicap would be a few strokes better at a wide open course where I can hit driver without being penalized (literally with penalty strokes) half the holes on the course for shots that are offline. Out of 27 holes, I only hit driver on 4-8 of them now.

This is totally normal and is the reason that someone isn't a true scratch unless they can travel. There will always be courses that suit your game and courses that don't.

For every big hitter who gets in trouble on short, narrow tracks there is a short knocker who can't touch his handicap on a long, wide open course.

What I'm thankful for is that there are very few courses that are long, narrow, and penalizing so it's usually possible to club down and keep it in play even though it's not as fun.

I think a good adjustment to the handicap system would be to underweight multiple scores from the same course (as with a home course). 

Knowing every inch of a course will obviously help you score. When you're seeing a course for the first or second time you're clearly less comfortable and aren't usually going to score like you could if you knew it better. 

This is especially true when you miss a fairway and you're not sure where all the trouble is. On your home course you've probably been in that spot before and know how much room for error exists to accommodate your next shot. Not so on a new course. 

Reverse for me, I’m 3 or even 4 better at other courses 

‘’my home course is very tight and 7000 yards, can’t miss left or tight and has small severe and fast greens

just beat a +3 mini tour player two days in a row that is 45 yards past me on good drives

I’d have no chance on a wide open 7500 yard course against him

On 8/21/2020 at 4:35 PM, LCP said:

The handicap system needs a reset.  Nearly all scratch golfers these days hit in the neighborhood of 300, not 250, and courses should be rated with that in mind.

 

I think the rating system is fine. Scratch golfers don't all hit it 300y. Are there any stats on amateur driving distances? Average handicaps haven't changed in decades, so if amateurs are hitting it further, it's not helping. 

Someone saying they hit it 300 to me sounds like they average that. I've hit a few probably that far, with run, so I certainly wouldn't say that's my average. The max I can carry a ball is 241m, I would say over 18 holes and hitting driver 12-13 times I would average 230m total. In fact if I get really bored this Saturday I'll try and measure. Sure it's winter, but it will be fun, swing speed is 105mph, so low for Golfwrx!

It's a problem with how courses are rated. Distance is too much of an overwhelming factor in course rating and hazards/OB aren't weighted enough. 

I came from a course that is rated 73 from tips(par 71), 6700 yards, with water and/or OB on both sides of 16 or 17 holes, which is in play on the vast majority. If I played a round with the same ball, it was a rare occurrence, even as a + handicap. The second you hit a poor drive the ball is gone. 

New course is rated 74 from tips (par 72), 6800 yards and you can go weeks without losing a ball as a scratch golfer. 

Good striking rounds aren't that different but if you're striking it poorly the difference is the ball is OB or in water on course A, vs hitting a punch shot likely somewhere around the green at course B. If you tell me I have to shoot X score I will pick course B 100% of the time even though the rating is higher and if I played 10 rounds at each I bet the average differential is multiple shots lower at course B. ( ~300 hitting +1 who is generally pretty accurate off tee) 

5 hours ago, pinhigh27 said:

It's a problem with how courses are rated. Distance is too much of an overwhelming factor in course rating and hazards/OB aren't weighted enough. 

 

I came from a course that is rated 73 from tips(par 71), 6700 yards, with water and/or OB on both sides of 16 or 17 holes, which is in play on the vast majority. If I played a round with the same ball, it was a rare occurrence, even as a + handicap. The second you hit a poor drive the ball is gone. 

 

New course is rated 74 from tips (par 72), 6800 yards and you can go weeks without losing a ball as a scratch golfer. 

 

Good striking rounds aren't that different but if you're striking it poorly the difference is the ball is OB or in water on course A, vs hitting a punch shot likely somewhere around the green at course B. If you tell me I have to shoot X score I will pick course B 100% of the time even though the rating is higher and if I played 10 rounds at each I bet the average differential is multiple shots lower at course B. ( ~300 hitting +1 who is generally pretty accurate off tee) 

Exactly.

The course rating system is a major flaw in the handicapping system.  It's a constant discussion point with many of my golfing buddies, but we're all stuck with it if we're playing any kind of net comp.  I keep hoping that they'll revise the guidelines so that some of the more "diabolical" courses would be rated more appropriately.

5 minutes ago, Noodler said:

 

Exactly.

 

The course rating system is a major flaw in the handicapping system.  It's a constant discussion point with many of my golfing buddies, but we're all stuck with it if we're playing any kind of net comp.  I keep hoping that they'll revise the guidelines so that some of the more "diabolical" courses would be rated more appropriately.

I thought it the system was fairly robust but has it's quirks. Two courses near me are virtually identical. Slope same, yardage the same, yet the one I think is more difficult has a lower course rating. Yet it never has extreme scores. The higher course rating, has had scores of fifty stableford points, tens shooting par, twenties shooting eighty etc. Which never happens at the "easier" course. 

I just think the difficult one is rated incorrectly, should have a lower course rating. 

If you can't keep it in play off the tee, shooting 80s as a "Scratch indexer" is not uncommon. Seen it happen

My guess is that maybe next time you play an "easier" course that you aren't familiar with, to hit the driver less and go with a 3 wood or a hybrid. Sounds like your speed should get you to carry those clubs in the 250-265 range. Misses will always be larger with driver and maybe you can get away with it on your home course since you know the ins and outs. 

Anybody that plays around Nashville can understand this..hermitage president reserve is rated harder than Gaylord springs. Except for a couple of holes, President’s is very generous for the most part. Gaylord springs use to host a tour event..has moguls that line the fairways and woods on the other side. Whoever rated these either got paid to do so that way or didn’t even visit the courses when rating them. 

47 minutes ago, airjammer said:

Anybody that plays around Nashville can understand this..hermitage president reserve is rated harder than Gaylord springs. Except for a couple of holes, President’s is very generous for the most part. Gaylord springs use to host a tour event..has moguls that line the fairways and woods on the other side. Whoever rated these either got paid to do so that way or didn’t even visit the courses when rating them. 

How are you comparing them? Course rating?

Course rating..I was putting in my scores in the usga ghin app and was in complete shock.