The cult of Cameron...

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  • SwingManSwingMan SwingMan Members  6800WRX Points: 67Handicap: 9.8Posts: 6,800 Titanium Tees
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    The Cult has spoken.
    Posted:
    "My swing is so bad, I look like a caveman killing his lunch" - Lee Trevino

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  • HoosierGolferHoosierGolfer Members  1718WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,718
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    Everyone has their favorite builder. Lets not turn this into yet another "mine is better than your's" kind of threads.

    That horse has been laid to rest.
    Posted:
  • PA1PA1 Club Champion Members  291WRX Points: 0Posts: 291
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    SwingMan wrote on Jan 23 2009, 08:23 PM:
    The Cult has spoken.






    And YOU will obey!
    Posted:
  • nobreak1970nobreak1970 Members  586WRX Points: 0Posts: 586
    Joined:  edited Jan 23, 2009 #35
    I'll settle this...I have all of ya'll beat!!!!!



    This is better than ALL of your putters........ image/beach.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':beach:' /> The cult of the Peach baby! rotfl...seriously. *ahem*
    Posted:
  • PA1PA1 Club Champion Members  291WRX Points: 0Posts: 291
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    AHHAA I like that. I had some off brand putter with a curve in the back where thats got the points it was pretty sweet. Where you get those peaches?
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  • nobreak1970nobreak1970 Members  586WRX Points: 0Posts: 586
    Joined:  edited Jan 23, 2009 #37
    I actually got it from ebay...and it's a Tad Moore putter. image/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> 1 of 1000 he made for a customer who backed out of that sale(got that from Tad in an email).

    Made in SS(the one in the pic) and also in MagBronze.

    But I must digress...just wanted to lighten the mood a bit and it's so not close to a Scotty putter. ROTFL

    I do like it however....a conversation piece nonetheless. image/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />







    ....despite the looks it's pretty solid.



    John
    Posted:
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  • BEND OF THE RIVER GCBEND OF THE RIVER GC Charter Members  6562WRX Points: 66Posts: 6,562 Titanium Tees
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    MOSt of the SC putters are awesome and pure quality. Spend some time here and on puttertalk and you'll soon realize that there are other, possibly better, options out there...



    C&L

    Byron

    Bettinardi

    Whitlam,



    '

    <













    "





    among others as well......do some research and you'll be surprised what is out there!
    Posted:
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  • arkstormarkstorm Members  1757WRX Points: 5Posts: 1,757 Platinum Tees
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    staunty wrote on Jan 23 2009, 04&#58;06 PM:
    arkstorm wrote on Jan 23 2009, 01&#58;09 PM:
    I wouldn't refer to Scotty Cameron putters or their owners as a cult. They make a nice product and are comparably priced to other similar high-end putters. Some people favor them just like they favor a certain golf ball. Are pro V-1 users a cult?



    Will a Cameron putter save you five strokes a round?...Only if it suits you a lot better than your current putter.



    If you have a great stroke does the putter even matter?...Yes an no. Good mechanics help you roll the ball toward the intended target, but feel (weight, length, ball speed off the face, etc.) equals distance control. So a great putter can't just use any putter because distance control varies with model. But it is safe to say that if you have good mechanics you will putt well with any putter similar to the one you are used to. Not that this has anything specifically to do with Scotty Cameron putters, but I digress.



    The best putters of the ball tend to stick with a certain putter for longer than any other club in their bag. On the flip side, the guys who I know that really struggle on the greens are the ones who swap putters every third round.



    It just so happens that the putter which works best for me is a Cameron. Its not because its a status symbol or because I have fallen under the influence of "the cult of Cameron".




    No need to take offense or justify. I think it was clear that I wasn't referring to Cameron owners as members of a crazy Branch Davidian-type cult. Its a broad term. Same as some would say that Mac users are rather cult-ish in comparison to PC users.




    No offense taken. Nor do I see how I'm justifying. On the contrary, I see you now qualifying your use of the term cult.



    There will always be detractors from any high end product like a Cameron putter. In golf, no justification is required when it comes to what equipment you use because the bottom line is you use what works. If its a Cameron putter, great. If its another brand, just as good.



    However, I wouldn't agree that a good putter of the ball can pick up any putter and be just as good as with the putter they're used to. There's just more to putting then that. but no need to rehash.
    Posted:
  • hodgeshodges Account Hold  220WRX Points: 0Posts: 220
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    banistr wrote on Jan 23 2009, 06&#58;20 PM:
    It can get better...






    Banistr I loved that picture the first time I saw it.

    Scotty Cameron and the koolaid gang.

    Reminds me how successful Scotty has been starting a whole new segment of the putter market place.

    High quality milled putters.

    Now there are lots of koolaid companies both old and new following in Scotty's footsteps.

    But that is good because they fill a need for the high end putter junkie that needs to tell his putter maker how to make their putter.
    Posted:
  • yankees06yankees06 Members  1172WRX Points: 55Posts: 1,172 Platinum Tees
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    Putt with what WORKS!

    Putt with what you LIKE!



    The only person it matters to is YOU!
    Posted:
  • blkdiamondblkdiamond Members  548WRX Points: 0Posts: 548
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    foregasim wrote on Jan 25 2009, 05&#58;28 AM:
    Most of the guys that claim to be Cameron collectors could not tell if a putter was an authentic Cameron unless it had Cameron engraved on it AND the putter came with a COA.




    I am going to have to call BS on that one. I have had the unfortunate experience of purchasing a fake Cameron Studio Style putter on ebay and I can tell you that once I received it my wife could even tell that it was a fake and she doesn't even golf.
    Posted:
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  • jickjick Members  1151WRX Points: 223Posts: 1,151 Platinum Tees
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    staunty wrote on Jan 23 2009, 11&#58;00 PM:
    I hadn't touched a club for about 13 years until I started playing again last year. Obviously a lot has changed. Balata balls and the Cleveland VAS irons were new-ish when I had last played. So what is the deal with the Scotty Cameron putters? No, I have not tried one but it seems to me many people use one more from a status standpoint - to be able to say they have a Cameron.



    Has anyone switched from a different manufacturer and noticed a difference in their putting? Has anyone dropped their putting average significantly? I am not knocking anyone who uses them but I want to know if they are THAT much better? I did see that he went to my High School though...thats pretty cool.




    The VAS Irons were in the mid-90's. Cameron was already around then.



    Where do you get your conclusion that people use Cameron's from a status standpoint? If you are talking about status standpoints, check out the "bling-bling" putters made by obscure but claiming-to-be-ultra-high-end Japan manufacturers.



    Cameron's prices are just par for the course on a milled name-brand putter - which is $250 to $300 - the same price range you'll see for the Ping Redwood, Odyssey Black Series, Mizuno Bettinardi, and Taylormade Kia Ma. So people get into Cameron as a matter of preference, or because their favorite pro uses the same brand and they want to emulate. It is not for a status standpoint at all.



    Even a look at the independent putter makers in this forum will show that you can't get a milled putter for less than $200.



    When you were gone, what really happened was the "arrival of the milled putters to the masses" and these putters are not to be confused with the popular cast putters of your era like the Ping Anser, Slotline Inertial, Tommy Armour ZAAP, or Acushnet Bullseye. Today's versions of these putters are the Odyssey White Hot XG, Taylormade Rossa AGSI, Ping Kartsten Series, and those other more affordable ones. Those are priced not to compete with Cameron.



    I don't think people would really change their putting stats by changing manufacturer. More important is to find the proper shape to fit the player's eye and stroke while being built to spec.



    So Camerons are expensive because they are milled, and there are many milled putters in the market. You are paying for the manufacturing process which is much more costly than just casting. There is really no status symbol to it. I have yet to see a player buy a Cameron just so that his foursome will think he is rich, nor have I seen a player salivate over a member of his foursome having a Cameron. Of course I mean off-the-rack because the tour putters are in a totally different universe, and they still are no status symbol because the average golfer won't even recognize it to appreciate it.
    Posted:
  • blkdiamondblkdiamond Members  548WRX Points: 0Posts: 548
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    foregasim wrote on Jan 25 2009, 06&#58;32 AM:
    blkdiamond wrote on Jan 25 2009, 08&#58;09 AM:
    foregasim wrote on Jan 25 2009, 05&#58;28 AM:
    Most of the guys that claim to be Cameron collectors could not tell if a putter was an authentic Cameron unless it had Cameron engraved on it AND the putter came with a COA.




    I am going to have to call BS on that one. I have had the unfortunate experience of purchasing a fake Cameron Studio Style putter on ebay and I can tell you that once I received it my wife could even tell that it was a fake and she doesn't even golf.




    I guess the TCC section that members use to ask if eBay items are fake, you know the section with around 17,000 posts in over 2,000 threads, is no indication that most of the 7,700+ members can tell an authentic Cameron from a fake Cameron unless it has a COA attached to it.






    You have to remember that since there are so many SC fakes floating around many people are "gun-shy" when it comes to buying them off ebay, and understandably so. Many of those posts in that section are also individuals simply bringing attention to the fake auctions that are out there.



    I don't think that your assessment is a fair observation, and I would venture a guess that most of the active members on TCC would be able to tell the difference between a real and fake Cameron.
    Posted:
  • kitsoasiskitsoasis fried chicken Members  3859WRX Points: 56Posts: 3,859 Titanium Tees
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    foregasim wrote on Jan 25 2009, 11&#58;32 PM:
    blkdiamond wrote on Jan 25 2009, 08&#58;09 AM:
    foregasim wrote on Jan 25 2009, 05&#58;28 AM:
    Most of the guys that claim to be Cameron collectors could not tell if a putter was an authentic Cameron unless it had Cameron engraved on it AND the putter came with a COA.




    I am going to have to call BS on that one. I have had the unfortunate experience of purchasing a fake Cameron Studio Style putter on ebay and I can tell you that once I received it my wife could even tell that it was a fake and she doesn't even golf.




    I guess the TCC section that members use to ask if eBay items are fake, you know the section with around 17,000 posts in over 2,000 threads, is no indication that most of the 7,700+ members can tell an authentic Cameron from a fake Cameron unless it has a COA attached to it.




    I'm with blkdiamond on this one. Forget TCC (where they're Cameron fanatics), even on GolfWRX most of the members can tell a fake from the real after a relatively quick inspection.
    Posted:
  • HoosierGolferHoosierGolfer Members  1718WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,718
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    image/deadhorse.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':deadhorse:' />



    This debate may rage on, but I think everyone should refrain from bringing the names of other sites into the discussion. I personally don't care for it too much.
    Posted:
  • jefffannjefffann pablo Members  202WRX Points: 0Posts: 202
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    Marketing,vanity and feel.

    Gotta love em but not their price.wish everyone hated them so I could pick up a few more cheap.
    Posted:
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  • HoosierGolferHoosierGolfer Members  1718WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,718
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    kitsoasis wrote on Jan 25 2009, 10&#58;29 AM:
    foregasim wrote on Jan 25 2009, 11&#58;32 PM:
    blkdiamond wrote on Jan 25 2009, 08&#58;09 AM:
    foregasim wrote on Jan 25 2009, 05&#58;28 AM:
    Most of the guys that claim to be Cameron collectors could not tell if a putter was an authentic Cameron unless it had Cameron engraved on it AND the putter came with a COA.




    I am going to have to call BS on that one. I have had the unfortunate experience of purchasing a fake Cameron Studio Style putter on ebay and I can tell you that once I received it my wife could even tell that it was a fake and she doesn't even golf.




    I guess the TCC section that members use to ask if eBay items are fake, you know the section with around 17,000 posts in over 2,000 threads, is no indication that most of the 7,700+ members can tell an authentic Cameron from a fake Cameron unless it has a COA attached to it.




    I'm with blkdiamond on this one. Forget TCC (where they're Cameron fanatics), even on GolfWRX most of the members can tell a fake from the real after a relatively quick inspection.




    I think the use of the word "fanatics" is also unnecessary here. There are many members of the other site mentioned above here. Lets not turn this into another locked topic.
    Posted:
  • kitsoasiskitsoasis fried chicken Members  3859WRX Points: 56Posts: 3,859 Titanium Tees
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    CallawayOnly wrote on Jan 26 2009, 02&#58;24 AM:
    I think the use of the word "fanatics" is also unnecessary here. There are many members of the other site mentioned above here. Lets not turn this into another locked topic.


    I just meant fans. Probably a poor choice of words with 'fanatic'. image/russian_roulette.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':russian_roulette:' />
    Posted:
  • stauntystaunty Members  78WRX Points: 0Posts: 78
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    jick wrote on Jan 25 2009, 07&#58;17 AM:
    staunty wrote on Jan 23 2009, 11&#58;00 PM:
    I hadn't touched a club for about 13 years until I started playing again last year. Obviously a lot has changed. Balata balls and the Cleveland VAS irons were new-ish when I had last played. So what is the deal with the Scotty Cameron putters? No, I have not tried one but it seems to me many people use one more from a status standpoint - to be able to say they have a Cameron.



    Has anyone switched from a different manufacturer and noticed a difference in their putting? Has anyone dropped their putting average significantly? I am not knocking anyone who uses them but I want to know if they are THAT much better? I did see that he went to my High School though...thats pretty cool.




    The VAS Irons were in the mid-90's. Cameron was already around then.



    Where do you get your conclusion that people use Cameron's from a status standpoint? If you are talking about status standpoints, check out the "bling-bling" putters made by obscure but claiming-to-be-ultra-high-end Japan manufacturers.



    Cameron's prices are just par for the course on a milled name-brand putter - which is $250 to $300 - the same price range you'll see for the Ping Redwood, Odyssey Black Series, Mizuno Bettinardi, and Taylormade Kia Ma. So people get into Cameron as a matter of preference, or because their favorite pro uses the same brand and they want to emulate. It is not for a status standpoint at all.



    Even a look at the independent putter makers in this forum will show that you can't get a milled putter for less than $200.



    When you were gone, what really happened was the "arrival of the milled putters to the masses" and these putters are not to be confused with the popular cast putters of your era like the Ping Anser, Slotline Inertial, Tommy Armour ZAAP, or Acushnet Bullseye. Today's versions of these putters are the Odyssey White Hot XG, Taylormade Rossa AGSI, Ping Kartsten Series, and those other more affordable ones. Those are priced not to compete with Cameron.



    I don't think people would really change their putting stats by changing manufacturer. More important is to find the proper shape to fit the player's eye and stroke while being built to spec.



    So Camerons are expensive because they are milled, and there are many milled putters in the market. You are paying for the manufacturing process which is much more costly than just casting. There is really no status symbol to it. I have yet to see a player buy a Cameron just so that his foursome will think he is rich, nor have I seen a player salivate over a member of his foursome having a Cameron. Of course I mean off-the-rack because the tour putters are in a totally different universe, and they still are no status symbol because the average golfer won't even recognize it to appreciate it.








    I already stated I am not hating on anyone who owns one and admitted I am susceptible to something that pleases my eye or being interested in something that has a lot of hype when it comes to gear. Yes, Cameron's were around in the mid-90's when I had stopped playing. But they didn't have that...buzz...that..."I have a Scotty" factor. I played on my high school team and was around private clubs a lot and had never heard of Cameron until I got back into the game last year.



    Should I have replaced status standpoint with fashion standpoint? There seems to be a considerable amount of chatter about the head covers alone...just sayin'.

    And in my original post I never mentioned the cost. I realize they are relatively on-par with other manufacturers and wasn't trying to make it a question of high-end, $300+ putter versus $100 putter. My main question was whether anybody noticed a considerable difference in their avg. putts/round using a Cameron.
    Posted:
  • RobotDoctorRobotDoctor Senior Hacker ClubWRX  4979WRX Points: 900Posts: 4,979 ClubWRX
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    I have owned 14 Cameron putters since Cameron signed with Acushnet (1995-present). I currently own just one (a TeI3 Newport w/copper plating). Cameron makes a good putter compared to the industry. I used to be part of the "cult" and thought Cameron was the end-all of putters. However, I have found that there are other manufacturers that make a tremendous putter (Byron Morgan and David Mills, to name two). Cameron is huge with Acushnet's backing (never mind actual units sold). Due to what I have come to understand, I would rather support Byron Morgan and David Mills because I really appreciate the fact that I can talk to each of these men about putters. Also Byron Morgan and David Mills have representatives (both members here) that are great to work with. I can talk to Steve and Jay about what I am looking for and they will work with me to get me the putter I want. Another thing about Byron Morgan and David Mills I really like is that they work on their putters. I know there are others in the same position as well. I like the fact that the personal attention is made by the designer themselves. This speaks volumes to me. For those who love Cameron putters, they are very nice putters and good for those people. For those who have found another avenue for putters, welcome to the world of putters.
    Posted:
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  • jcholmanjcholman Members  321WRX Points: 0Posts: 321
    Joined:  edited Jan 25, 2009 #52
    For whatever reason people will develop a brand loyalty. It isnt just putters that do it, but Cameron is a very good marketing machine. Does anyone know the stats of % of tour players gaming which putters? I would guess SC would have the largest but really that doesnt and shouldnt matter.



    Go find the putter that fits your eye and your swing. Best advice would be to go to a place like hotstixs or something else. Although they may fit you for something that doesnt agree with your eye.



    Cameron is like the BCS of football, is there anything that seems to garner more opinnion or conversation?



    Go Utes, true National Champions!! 13-0
    Posted:
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  • RamblerRambler North CarolinaMembers  1750WRX Points: 112Posts: 1,750 Platinum Tees
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    I saw the title and thought, this seems like the perfect place to find jick posting... I was right LOL image/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />



    Just messin on ya of course image/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />
    Posted:
  • rblum22rblum22 Members  670WRX Points: 0Posts: 670
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    One thing you have to consider when discussing the "Cult of Cameron" is collectors.



    While the putters are no doubt fine products, the market has a TON of fine putters which will suit different players stroke, aesthetic preference, or price range.



    Where Scotty Cameron does his best work - by far - is the marketing of his product. The "Cult of Cameron" is not about his putters necessarily, but about $30 hats, $40 ball markers, $75 headcovers, and $600 limited edition putters. Cameron products are beanie babies - people by them in may cases based on speculation about their value and with the intent to someday sell them likes stocks. Others collect them like comic books and have a room full of stuff they will never use, just display.
    Posted:
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  • ThrasherThrasher Members  107WRX Points: 0Posts: 107
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    I used to putt with an Odyssey White Hot No. 6. I liked it, until I tried the Scotty Cameron I am using now (Circa 62 No. 3). I don't have statistics to prove it's better than my previous Odyssey. But, I can tell you the golf ball feels better coming off the clubface off my Circa 62. I also seem to lag long putts closer to the hole than I did with my White Hot.
    Posted:
  • abmsabms Members  328WRX Points: 0Posts: 328
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    Ha... its pretty funny when the guys that cant shoot under 100 on a 6500 yard course go any buy a cameron and think it will help them improve ten strokes.(no offense for anyone that shoots 100+)In reality the putter will do nothing until the person can perfect their stroke. I have tried ping and camerons and i must say that the best putter(for me)is by far the spalding i got for 5 dollars from my friends basement.(its probably been sitting there for twenty years)Im not joking it just seems even though the thing is a peice of s*** i can drain puts. I dont give a s*** what anyone says about it (because its always the premium joke) i still putt the best in my group.Dont be sucked in by the cameron cult.by the way i think it is sort of a cult.



    just my input.
    Posted:
  • kitsoasiskitsoasis fried chicken Members  3859WRX Points: 56Posts: 3,859 Titanium Tees
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    abms wrote on Jan 26 2009, 04&#58;58 PM:
    Ha... its pretty funny when the guys that cant shoot under 100 on a 6500 yard course go any buy a cameron and think it will help them improve ten strokes.(no offense for anyone that shoots 100+)In reality the putter will do nothing until the person can perfect their stroke. I have tried ping and camerons and i must say that the best putter(for me)is by far the spalding i got for 5 dollars from my friends basement.(its probably been sitting there for twenty years)Im not joking it just seems even though the thing is a peice of s*** i can drain puts. I dont give a s*** what anyone says about it (because its always the premium joke) i still putt the best in my group.Dont be sucked in by the cameron cult.by the way i think it is sort of a cult.



    just my input.


    You make a good point, but what about those of us you just like high-end milled putters? I can assure you we are under no illusion that a $500 putter will help us make more birdies.
    Posted:
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  • KevCarterKevCarter WisconsinClubWRX  12929WRX Points: 473Posts: 12,929 ClubWRX
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    stage1350 wrote on Jan 26 2009, 12&#58;16 AM:
    Thankfully so. Why would I want to spend my hard earned dollars for something that I do not want?



    I'd prefer no site alignment on my putter. Boutique guy: No Problem. Don T: NO F**KING WAY!!!

    Can I get *** finish on my putter? Boutique guy: Absolutely. Don T: ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!

    Can you make my putter with ** loft, ** lie, ** length, and ** grip? Boutique guy: Sure, it's your putter. Don T: It will get a "C" COA.



    I don't care what you give me as long as there is a dog taking a dump on the sole. Don T: Make your check out to *******. image/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />



    I could have sworn "High quality milled putters" were started by TP Mills. He actually WAS established in 1962 afterall. It's not just a marketing slogan for them. image/rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />





    abms wrote on Jan 26 2009, 12&#58;58 AM:
    Ha... its pretty funny when the guys that cant shoot under 100 on a 6500 yard course go any buy a cameron and think it will help them improve ten strokes.(no offense for anyone that shoots 100+)In reality the putter will do nothing until the person can perfect their stroke. I have tried ping and camerons and i must say that the best putter(for me)is by far the spalding i got for 5 dollars from my friends basement.(its probably been sitting there for twenty years)Im not joking it just seems even though the thing is a peice of s*** i can drain puts. I dont give a s*** what anyone says about it (because its always the premium joke) i still putt the best in my group.Dont be sucked in by the cameron cult.by the way i think it is sort of a cult.



    just my input.




    Now you're not playing nice.



    Kevin
    Posted:
    I could be wrong
    I've been wrong before
    I'll be wrong again
  • jickjick Members  1151WRX Points: 223Posts: 1,151 Platinum Tees
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    staunty wrote on Jan 26 2009, 02&#58;10 AM:
    My main question was whether anybody noticed a considerable difference in their avg. putts/round using a Cameron.




    I did not notice a considerable difference myself, but I am not one who sorts out my putts/round average based on putters use. I just average mine out through all the games. I'm not sure if the PGA Tour or Shotlink can compartmentalize stats based on different putters used.



    Maybe others here can help answer this question since it is the main question and we cannot veer too far off topic. It would also help if others who contribute to this topic mention what putters they used before or after their Cameron usage.
    Posted:
  • hodgeshodges Account Hold  220WRX Points: 0Posts: 220
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    stage1350 wrote on Jan 26 2009, 02&#58;16 AM:
    hodges wrote on Jan 24 2009, 07&#58;58 PM:
    banistr wrote on Jan 23 2009, 06&#58;20 PM:
    It can get better...






    Banistr I loved that picture the first time I saw it.

    Scotty Cameron and the koolaid gang.

    Reminds me how successful Scotty has been starting a whole new segment of the putter market place.

    High quality milled putters.

    Now there are lots of koolaid companies both old and new following in Scotty's footsteps.

    But that is good because they fill a need for the high end putter junkie that needs to tell his putter maker how to make their putter.




    Thankfully so. Why would I want to spend my hard earned dollars for something that I do not want?



    I'd prefer no site alignment on my putter. Boutique guy: No Problem. Don T: NO F**KING WAY!!!

    Can I get *** finish on my putter? Boutique guy: Absolutely. Don T: ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!

    Can you make my putter with ** loft, ** lie, ** length, and ** grip? Boutique guy: Sure, it's your putter. Don T: It will get a "C" COA.



    I don't care what you give me as long as there is a dog taking a dump on the sole. Don T: Make your check out to *******. image/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />



    I could have sworn "High quality milled putters" were started by TP Mills. He actually WAS established in 1962 afterall. It's not just a marketing slogan for them. image/rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />






    Stagie you can get anything you want on a putter from Scotty, all you got do is have some talent.

    When you have some success on the mini tours Scotty will be there to make you what you want.

    Till then it is stock for you and me.

    Well there are a few custom options you can order from Titleist on stock putters
    Posted:
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