Argument needing to be settled

I need others opinions on this question because me and my roomate are both too bull-headed to admit we're wrong.

Q. Is Phil a bad putter in your opinion?

No. Argument settled. ;)

Phil who?

Phil Collins is a terrible putter but that Mickleson gezzer is the nuts.

He's better than me

For real? No, he's not or he wouldn't be playing on tour wise guy...

I'll throw out that he's a streaky putter. Plus, he's got that love/hate relationship with the 8802 blade style putter. It seems to magnify issues if his stroke is a bit off.

Compared to who (whom)? Compared to you and most general population, he's an awesome putter.

He's better than Most.

Now, if you compare him to Tiger or top 50, he might be an average putter.

He's definately not the putter he used to be. I'd have to say he's still a good putter, but not a great putter. Very streaky IMO.

better than most...better than most...better than most, but not better than some.

Did you watch the putts he made on the closing holes Sunday

at the NT Open? That should settle the argument.

He's not a bad, putter but he's not as good as some others. He was much more dangerous when he was winning majors. His putting has fallen off since then.

He doesn't miss putts to lose tournaments, he misses fairways.

His eagles on the first hole at Rivierawere all 20+.

40-odd wins and a stellar amateur career make a pretty persuasive argument that he's not, no.

yes you need to change your screen name.

what was the question again ?

I am not sure what the criteria is to be considered either a good putter or a bad putter. Ben Crenshaw had a beautiful flowing stroke and is considered by many as one of the greatest putters ever. However, his putting stats did not always back up that claim.

Phil is in my mind about the same. He makes more then his fair share of putts, but his putting stats don't always relate to him being one of the best.

With that said, winners do have to make putts and are usually near the top in putting stats for the tournaments that they win. However, they also have to do alot of other things well during the tournament. If it were just about putting, then guys like Dave Stockton and Brad Faxon would each have an additional 10 wins on tour.

Bad putter? Absolutely not. Great putter? Nope, not there either. Very good putter - that's where I'd put him. Some of this stuff gets started because he was touted as having such a terrific short game early in his career. And he did, and still does! But it wasn't ever his putting, it was his imagination on chips and pitches that got him that recognition.

Anyone who wins 35 PGA tour events is a good putter.

Phil is not a BAD putter...

Anyone on the PGA Tour are GOOD putters...

Now you could argue whether or not Phil is the best putter on Tour...

If that were the argument, I think you can probably say he isn't the best putter on Tour...

I have a question about Phil's putting. Has he always used the "open stance" when putting, even back in college and the early 90's?

Phil is NOT a bad putter. He's a very good putter, but not a great putter.

According to PGAtour.com he is T82 with 28.92 putts per round this year. Badds is #1 with 27.08. Thats a difference of just 1.84 putts per round. And Stricker is #23 w/ 28.20 if that puts it into perspective.

This is actually quite a good question.

Look at it this way. Vijay's record is quite similar (in fact it's slightly better) to Phil's and the fact remains that in 20 years when we look back at his career, no-one will be talking about Vijay as a great putter!

Nicklaus was the best player in the world for years but if you ask anyone who the best putters of all time are, the names Crenshaw, Faxon, Roberts and Stockton are always listed before Jack.

As for Phil, well, he's not putting as well as he was a few years ago. He's always been an aggressive player and he's always found himself on parts of the golf course that Osama Bin Laden would be ashamed to hide out in. Tee to green, I don't think he's playing too different now than he was when he was winning Majors. The difference is that he's not holing the putts that he was then. Don't get me wrong, he's not turned into a bad putter, he's just not living up to his reputation as a great putter.

This is a very easy answer, You don't win 35 events on the PGA Tour without being a good putter. It's as simple as that, you can't even keep your tour card without being a good putter. There have been many excellent ball strikers on the tour that has lost their tour card because of putting. Phil stays in the top 10 on the money list each year, you can't do that without being a great putter. My two cents

Phil is NOT a bad putter. He's a very good putter, but not a great putter.

 

According to PGAtour.com he is T82 with 28.92 putts per round this year. Badds is #1 with 27.08. Thats a difference of just 1.84 putts per round. And Stricker is #23 w/ 28.20 if that puts it into perspective.

Those are good stats, but to me, a much more accurate measure of a player's putting skills is PPGIR (Putts per Greens in Regulation). This eliminates comparing a chip up & one putt to someone who hits the GIR and two putts.

For the 2008 season, Mickelson was 22nd on tour in PPGIR with a 1.761 average. For comparison, Tiger Woods was at 1.735, which would have ranked him 4th if he had played the minimum of 50 rounds required for a ranking.

I would say this qualifies him as a really good putter!

NO, he is on the pga, you cannot be a BAD putter and be on the pga, a bad putter to me is 3-4 putts at least each hole.

if anything, he is a 'streaky' putter, he has his good days and bad days

Hot and cold streaks - sure. A bad putter - no way. You don't win that many tournaments and be close in many more if you are a bad putter.

It could be better, but he's made a pretty good career with his putting so far.

You know I have this feeling that Phil was much better when he was younger, which would have made him deadly. Like anything else when you have GOD given feel and talent, it could actually go to s*** when you over think it. I guess Pelz is great at what he does, and Phil like any great athlete looking to get better would look for help, but was help needed? Now his swing has always been loose and still is, all be it he can work it, I can see why he may have wanted to see Butch on that. Final thought: Practicing what you know makes near perfect, fool with your brain and it will all go to s***.

I think phil is a great putter. Not the best on tour but I honestly do like his stroke even if I am in the minority here, I think its really smooth. He definetly makes some pretty important putts especially the short ones

He's a great chipper, not a great putter. But I wouldnt ever say that he is a bad putter. Maybe he has been cold with the putter lately, but overall he is good.

heel shafted putter + sbst guru-Pelz= BIG MESS on your stroke.