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Why is it so popular to bend your irons 2 degrees up?


clemsondds

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Hey guys, just wondering if some of ya'll can explain why people bend their irons up to 2 degrees? I noticed when looking in the for sale forum, that there are alot of irons bent like this. I think I know the answer, but would love to hear everyone's reasons. Is this something everyone should be doing, or is it very specific to a certain type of swing? thanks

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It is all about fitting. more upright = more of a draw, more flat= fade.

For example, when the club is flat, the toe of the club makes contact first and gets slowed down a bit so the clubface opens a bit promoting a fade. Vice versa if the club is upright.

It is just a way to fit the club for your swing, nothing that is going to help your game unless you fall into the same catagory.

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2 degrees up from what? There is no standard lie so the actual lie angle could be anything.
Let's say that lies err on the upright side these days. Since the upright lie tends to assist golfers in hitting the ball right to left, it's going to help the masses who tend to have to commonest swing fault - left to right. Apologies for the generalization to right-handed golfers, the opposite will obviously apply to lefties.

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When buying shoes I noticed a lot of the shoes in the stores inventory were size 10.......

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[quote name='dlygrisse' post='1857448' date='Aug 1 2009, 11:07 PM']When buying shoes I noticed a lot of the shoes in the stores inventory were size 10.......[/quote]

:D

Yes, that above... but


It is not the old chestnut that more upright causes heel to dig in early and cause a more left (draw/pull shot) but that a more upright causes the face to be facing more leftward at impact (than it would otherwise do) - stick a pencil on to the face of your 7 iron so it faces out at 90 degress to the face and if you then hold it exactly level on the ground it (the pencil - and the face) will point at your target. Now tilt the club grip end down a bit so that the club's toe comes up off the ground a fair bit and you'll see the pencil now points subtantially more leftward than before. This is a more upright lie angle.....

Fitting..... gives you a choice.

1. Fit the lie angle so that when [b]YOU[/b] swing that club the sole of the club is 'flat' to the ground ie neither too upright nor too flat - this is when the impact tape on the sole of the club will show the impact/rubbing to be in the middle of the sole. Now, your club is set to be at the right lie angle for YOU at impact - and now it is up to YOU whether that's ok or whether you need to fix a hook or slice tendency.

or

2. Note where the player's 'natural' lie angle is - ie the neutral/normal lie angle as above - but then intentionally bend the lie angle to mitigate their hook/slice tendencies....


which leads to your observation... since a rather huge majority of golfers slice the ball (even if they like to call it a fade) then a simple band-aid is to bend it more upright..... in the same way most drivers have their faces set closed at address and also with far more upright lie angles than 'fits'.



Coops


ps my irons are bent (or when i got my Pings, ordered...) 2 degrees up ;-) ) - this was to get the sole flat at impact...... honest. (used to hook, now after lessons - ongoing - cannot hook even if i try to..... still hope to get back to a nice draw.....) . Oddly, despite several swing changes over many years have consistently need a couple of degrees upright (Ping green code equivalnet, i think.....).... wil wait and see after my present promising swing changes....!

"You must lash out with every limb, like the octopus who plays the drums." p. 134

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It has to do with posture and arm length and swing arc. If there are a more than normal amount of clubs that you are seeing like this then I do not know what to say. Every set of clubs sold should have some sort of custom work on them if fitted properly. Like said earlier there is no "real" standard. I am 6 ft tall but have short arms and stand upright so standard clubs are horrible for me.

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Two of the most common swing flaws among amateurs, are swings that are either too "steep"...... or that are "over the top" (each creating an out-to-in swing path). Bumping the toe up 2 or 3 degrees, serves to mitigate each of the flaws through impact and helps to reduce the amount of left to right curvature that usually accompanies these moves.

 

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Ok thanks ya'll. So I was fitted for clubs and the pro said that on my new clubs I didn't need any adjustment. Standard length and lie are perfect for me. It seems like some of you are talking about loft and some are talking about lie angle. Which is more typical to change? I'm guessing when most say they have been bent 2 degrees, they are talking about the loft. And that changes the flight of the ball right? Anyone know if most pros have this done?

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[quote name='clemsondds' post='1858228' date='Aug 1 2009, 07:36 PM']Ok thanks ya'll. So I was fitted for clubs and the pro said that on my new clubs I didn't need any adjustment. Standard length and lie are perfect for me. It seems like some of you are talking about loft and some are talking about lie angle. Which is more typical to change? [b]I'm guessing when most say they have been bent 2 degrees, they are talking about the loft[/b]. And that changes the flight of the ball right? Anyone know if most pros have this done?[/quote]

No, they are talking about the lie, not the loft.

a few generalizations about lie angles: short golfers (think Ian Woosnam) will often require flatter lies; tall golfers (think Tom Weiskopf) will often benefit from more upright lies. The key variable ( among other variables) is the distance from your wrists to the ground at address.

Mizuno used to manufacture their iron sets with flatter lies than most OEM's partly because the average Japanese male was shorter than the average N. American male.

as many have already said, a more upright lie sort of "fixes" the leak to the right. that is why the standard lie angles of GI irons will be more upright thant the standard lie angles of a " players" iron, even among the same manufacturer. For example, the mizuno MP forged blades (for low cappers) are flatter than the mizuno MX cast cavity back irons for the mid and high capper.

Lie angles are easiest to adjust in forged irons; sometimes not possible to adjust in cast irons.

as others have already pointed out, there is no fixed standard lie (just like there is no standard loft) which means that one set of irons "bumped" up by 2 degrees may have the same lie angles as a different set of irons that have not been adjusted.

enjoy the game and enjoy your new irons: standard lie, loft and length works for 90% of recreational golfers.

You can now expect a bunch of posts citing all of the exceptions to the generalizations set out above.

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I was able to do a Mizuno demo show and the rep fit me for mp62's. He had me hit on a board and said that I needed 1/2 inch long. But he said that the standard lie/loft(?) was good. (I think) I know this isn't real complex...I guess what I'm asking is, I'm not sure what he tested...I'm guessing lie since I hit on a board. My question is, what kind of test would they do to determine whether I should adjust my launch? By the way, thank you all for your input! I am about a 10 handicap but am young and just now getting more serious about golfing. I've always just played with whatever I had, but I'm now trying to work my way up to being able to afford a set that actually fits me.

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Testing for correct lie angle is very easy - they'll put some tape along the sole of the club and get you to hit balls off a lie board (just a hard surface, can use the mat also but a good flat hard surface makes the mark easier to see). The mark on the sole will show if your clubhead is level or toe up or down at impact.

Repeat a few times for checking, and can check a few different irons ie 7 and 9 and 5 etc to confirm your general tendency.

Can then bend the irons to get the sole level at impact - or with Ping you'll order them to suit.

My swing has changed over the years a fair bit, yet i've always needed irons a bit upright from standard (a Euro standard although even that isn't really set in stone or anything).....

Once you know what your lie angles are - keep a note if you like, then you can easily know if another brand's irons need adjusting.... but, best to check for real by hitting shots with them anyway.

Coops

"You must lash out with every limb, like the octopus who plays the drums." p. 134

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[quote name='clemsondds' post='1859449' date='Aug 2 2009, 02:39 PM']Thanks but I'm more curious about launch angle. How do they test to determine which launch angle best suits you. Do you just go by the distance you hit them, and if you don't like your gaps you bend them a little? Or do people change launch angle to decrease bounce? thanks[/quote]

Loft angles are adjusted mostly for consistent distance gaps throughout the set. It is true that bounce changes with loft on a 1 to 1 basis, but I think that unless you are bending an iron 2*+ that you will see a significant change in playing characteristics due to the change in bounce.

As far as launch angle goes, that isnt really as important on irons because you have so many of them (compared to 1 driver etc). If you want to add more loft to hit it a bit higher you can do so, but you will sacrifice some distance. The general rule of thumb is that 1* ~ 3 yards (which is why consistent 4* gaps is pretty standard)

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  • 7 years later...

He went with his new driver in the adjustable Upright position at 9* and he's loving it. Wish he could drop the loft down to 7.5* Upright.

Have wondered why he always had a little fade with his Mizuno mp32 and mp67 irons but much less so with Callaway X16 irons. Could be the flatter lie angles.

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It is all about fitting. more upright = more of a draw, more flat= fade.

 

For example, when the club is flat, the toe of the club makes contact first and gets slowed down a bit so the clubface opens a bit promoting a fade. Vice versa if the club is upright.

 

It is just a way to fit the club for your swing, nothing that is going to help your game unless you fall into the same catagory.

 

Gets slowed by what?

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I am 6ft tall and was fit into 2 deg upright. I have a natural draw. Play a draw, no more or less than standard lie. Biggest difference is in hit 2 degree upright in the center much more often and not as thin.

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Hey guys, just wondering if some of ya'll can explain why people bend their irons up to 2 degrees? I noticed when looking in the for sale forum, that there are alot of irons bent like this. I think I know the answer, but would love to hear everyone's reasons. Is this something everyone should be doing, or is it very specific to a certain type of swing? thanks

Well, I'm a touch over 6'. Used to be 6'1" but I've shrunk a little. But my arms are more like someone 6'4" to 6'5". My wingspan finger tip to finger tip is 78". So I play my irons 2 deg flat. My 5 irons lie is 59 deg whereas the usual 5 iron lie from most manufacturers is more like 61 deg. I had one fitter tell me I could play at 4 deg flat but that seemed a little extreme. 2 deg flat seems to work pretty well for me. A lot of higher handicap players have an over the top, steep down swing so 2 deg up helps cut down on slicing, particularly with the longer irons. Unfortunately what you then see is that they tend to pull their short irons. So for many, playing an upright lie with your irons is a quick and dirty fix for those who can't or don't want to take the time to fix a swing flaw. I know a guy who is about 5'6" and has shortish arms for his size. If he had a decent swing he most likely would be playing irons 4-5 deg. flat but he has such a horrendous over the top move he gets by using irons that are 2 deg up. Now of course this does not apply to all golfers by any means. Some really do need more upright lies. But manufacturers are smart. The majority of handicap golfers fight a slice. If they can market a club that will cut down on that slice they are going to sell more clubs.

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Testing for correct lie angle is very easy - they'll put some tape along the sole of the club and get you to hit balls off a lie board (just a hard surface, can use the mat also but a good flat hard surface makes the mark easier to see). The mark on the sole will show if your clubhead is level or toe up or down at impact.

 

Repeat a few times for checking, and can check a few different irons ie 7 and 9 and 5 etc to confirm your general tendency.

 

Can then bend the irons to get the sole level at impact - or with Ping you'll order them to suit.

 

My swing has changed over the years a fair bit, yet i've always needed irons a bit upright from standard (a Euro standard although even that isn't really set in stone or anything).....

 

Once you know what your lie angles are - keep a note if you like, then you can easily know if another brand's irons need adjusting.... but, best to check for real by hitting shots with them anyway.

 

Coops

 

That isn't the best or correct way by any means....it's just a tool

 

Hitting off a lie board covers the in-store, sell you a set of clubs mantra.

 

Using the straight line marked ball on face, hitting off REAL grass will produce best results for lie angle

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  • 7 years later...

These are not very accurate answers. ..the truth is a golf club functions properly when the club contacts the ball laying flat.  The bend up isn't likely up for that person. It makes the club lay flat.

 

Over 6 feet tall, with standard length clubs they are probably bemt up to.accomodate a.steep swing. To keep posture. At 5 feet tall. They are probably down to accommodate a flat swing. 

 

When you are fitted properly there's a mark board that scuffs the club with green or blue or whatever they use.  and tells you if you're toe striking or heel striking. At Impact position and start position you want it flat. Toe strikes fly higher. Heel draws more.  And cause hosel turn over.

 

 

The club sends it and the face Bends it.

 

You can test this without fitting by chipping. 

 

If your toes up you'll chunk a lot.  If its down youll.chip higher and softer. When you get it flat if your hands are higher or lower than you feel comfortable impacting the ball, bending may help you. If you have decent form. 

 

This is the main reason people dont hit their long irons well. 

 

Ohh. And you can talk to a cut but a hook won't listen. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, jarediogolf said:

image.gif.be66cf4099421160b0d19afed417c19f.gif

 

Looking forward to this thread's next revival in 2030

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