Has anyone else noticed no titleist stuff online

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  • LegacyUserLegacyUser Guests Posts: 0
    I think I read something about Titleist liking to keep their inventory low for business/financial reasons. This could be one reason you don't see landscapes of 905Rs at Golf Galaxy like you do for Cally and TM stuff. Another could be that they like to have more control over their products to ensure their quality and integrity.



    This may make them seem stuck-up and thats too bad. Their target market isn't the people who read Golf Whatever magazine and believe they are going to get 20 extra yards by buying the new techno-crap driver. If you read those rags and believe half the s*** they write in there you should be driving the ball 700 yards by now and sinking every putt inside 20 feet, not to mention your slice is just an ugly memory.



    Every company has a right to run its business any way it chooses and I respect and admire Titleist for running theirs the way they do.
  • cooper123cooper123 Members Posts: 43
    king1066 wrote on Apr 25 2006, 11:41 AM:


    I'm surprised that this happens and even more surprised that everyone acts as if its no big deal; or even worse applauds it. This country was built on capitalism. We used to be great bc we have freedom, but that is more or less disappearing before our eyes. Let's ban together and protect our last bastion of pure freedom -" freedom of the market ". A product should be offered to everyone who can afford it. In my opinion, Titleist products should be listed on the net before they even show up at local dealers (if for no other reason then the ease of providing it to the net sellers). Golf Pros have enough of an advantage and believe me when I say, they make plenty of money - ie, percentage of green fees, percentage of cart (usually 100%), pro shop sales ($6 for 20 tees), lessons ($60/hour), plus a SALARY, but most importantly all the free equipment and free golf they want. From now on, no more titleist stuff from the local dealers - if I want a titleist item I will buy it off of ebay.




    ??? Was this sarcasm? What about the "freedom to do what the **** you want with your golf clubs and sell them in any way you see fit"?



    A product should be offered to everyone who can afford it??? Uh, first, Titleist can sell or not sell to whomever they want, and second, ANYONE CAN buy Titleist - walk into the closest pro shop and place your order...
  • dachtordachtor Members Posts: 888 ✭✭
    pegleg wrote on Apr 27 2006, 03:42 PM:

    dachtor wrote on Apr 27 2006, 03:35 PM:


    strange combinations..... left handed senior flex, ladies flex, 10.5 degree x flex, even if there was no chance in the world somebody would walk in and buy a 7.5 degree regular flex.



    Why does Titleist carry this attitude? I also heard that they declined to be one of the available manufacturers in the game Tiger Woods 2005 because they didn't want anything to do with Nike or TaylorMade. Unbelievable......




    I don't believe for one second that Titleist EVER made anyone take a 7.5 degree reg flex, nor a 10.5 x flex (in fact, I'm sure that no pre-pack ever included an x flex of any kind). Left handed senior flex? Come on...



    As for 'I heard' - who did you hear it from? Titleist? The licensing person at the video game manufacturer?



    Your arguments would hold water better if there was any factuality in them...




    While I can't recall the entire contents of the pre-pack, I do know for a FACT that there were clubs included in the pre-pack that were not easily sold. What are your "facts" that suggest otherwise?



    As for Tiger Woods 2005.... I can't say I heard it out of the liscensing person's mouth, but I do have relative in the gaming community. Specifically, EA Sports. What's your fact?
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  • dachtordachtor Members Posts: 888 ✭✭
    DemolitionMan wrote on Apr 27 2006, 06:47 PM:

    pegleg wrote on Apr 27 2006, 12:38 PM:

    dachtor wrote on Apr 27 2006, 02:55 PM:






    Wow, do you work for Titleist because you sure took offense to my post. First of all, the testing group consisted of all types of golfers (scratch to 18 handicap). Second, it wasn't a review by the journalists, it was a review by the testers selected by the magazine. All worked in various professions. Third, while it may be useless to 80% of the posters on this board, the majority of the golfing public isn't in the 80% of people on the board, therefore, it's very useful info. You don't have to play exotic, rare shafts to be a single digit handicap.



    The only point that I was trying to make was that in addition to having strict guidelines regarding online purchases (the point of this thread), Titleist also seems to have a problem with their clubs being reviewed in a test against other manufacturers. I personally would have enjoyed hearing about their 775 irons as I've been interested in these for a while. Would it have been relevant to hear a review of those with s300 shafts or is that not exotic enough for you?




    First, you would not get a review of the 775s with S300s, because that is not the stock shaft, and the magazines only review clubs with the stock shaft.



    Second, to say the Golf Magazine's (and pretty much any magazine's) club reviews are total b.s. would be an understatement. These 'all types of golfers' seem to have a big bag of cliche's which they choose their comments from:



    "These clubs are consistently one club longer than my current set" - you'll find that comment in EVERY iron test in EVERY magazine. If it were true, that every year a set of irons comes out that is one club longer than last year's, we would all be hitting PW as far as we hit our 3 irons 8 years ago...



    "I can get away with a bad swing and still get a good result" - they say this about almost every game improvement design. Well, duh! Isn't that the whole point of big cavity back irons?



    "These clubs won't conceal your mishits. Center shots fly true, mishits suffer distance." Again, duh. They say this about any 'player's club'. Oh, I forgot that 'Thin shots sting!'. No kiddin?



    EVERY review of almost ANY Titleist product gets the same tired cliches:

    Traditional appearnce, looks like a serious players club (Come on! That's their freakin' slogan!),

    Won't cover up bad mishits, good distance and direction control,

    not the longest club out there, but consistent.



    Why bother? Why bother reading them, why both, as an OEM, sending your clubs there?



    I don't know what's worse - Golf Magazine's "and the winner is" (yes, there is only ONE best club, and if you don't buy this one...)

    or Golf Digest's 'Hot List' - where EVERYTHING is on the hot list!



    And, the 'majority' of the golfing public don't subscribe to golf magazines, nor do they spend $400 on a driver every year.




    Well done.



    Why don't some of the complainers out there buy a share of FO stock, go to the annual meeting and put your foot down? Or send an email to Titleist through their website? They will respond.



    I could get down the real story behind why Titleist is not in TW's game. It's probably not all that exciting. Something along the lines, of they were asked, they said no thanks, end of story.




    Why would I spend my hard earned money buying FO stock (not that it's a bad stock), going to the shareholders meeting and putting my foot down? What would that cost me and what would I get out of it? No thanks, I'll voice my opinion in other ways such as sending an email or simply not buying Titleist gear.



    To be honest, I don't understand why everybody is so argumentative about this. The thread discusses some of Titleist's strange behavior and odd sales tactics. I'm merely adding to the thread. I don't have anything against Titleist (I own many Camerons, vokey wedges and a few FW woods). I'm only saying that I think the above mentioned behavior is kind of strange. Can you honestly tell me that buy NOT participating in GOLF XX magazine's club test they are helping business? When they set rules regarding the sale of new merchandise online, is that helping business? When they force retailers to purchase pre-packs, is that helping business? Please don't argue with me about it, let's debate the business reasons behind it because what I'm telling you is that I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT!
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  • DemolitionManDemolitionMan It�s not a hill, it�s a mountain...As you start out the clim Members Posts: 3,874
    dachtor wrote on Apr 27 2006, 08:19 PM:

    DemolitionMan wrote on Apr 27 2006, 06:47 PM:

    pegleg wrote on Apr 27 2006, 12:38 PM:

    dachtor wrote on Apr 27 2006, 02:55 PM:






    Wow, do you work for Titleist because you sure took offense to my post. First of all, the testing group consisted of all types of golfers (scratch to 18 handicap). Second, it wasn't a review by the journalists, it was a review by the testers selected by the magazine. All worked in various professions. Third, while it may be useless to 80% of the posters on this board, the majority of the golfing public isn't in the 80% of people on the board, therefore, it's very useful info. You don't have to play exotic, rare shafts to be a single digit handicap.



    The only point that I was trying to make was that in addition to having strict guidelines regarding online purchases (the point of this thread), Titleist also seems to have a problem with their clubs being reviewed in a test against other manufacturers. I personally would have enjoyed hearing about their 775 irons as I've been interested in these for a while. Would it have been relevant to hear a review of those with s300 shafts or is that not exotic enough for you?




    First, you would not get a review of the 775s with S300s, because that is not the stock shaft, and the magazines only review clubs with the stock shaft.



    Second, to say the Golf Magazine's (and pretty much any magazine's) club reviews are total b.s. would be an understatement. These 'all types of golfers' seem to have a big bag of cliche's which they choose their comments from:



    "These clubs are consistently one club longer than my current set" - you'll find that comment in EVERY iron test in EVERY magazine. If it were true, that every year a set of irons comes out that is one club longer than last year's, we would all be hitting PW as far as we hit our 3 irons 8 years ago...



    "I can get away with a bad swing and still get a good result" - they say this about almost every game improvement design. Well, duh! Isn't that the whole point of big cavity back irons?



    "These clubs won't conceal your mishits. Center shots fly true, mishits suffer distance." Again, duh. They say this about any 'player's club'. Oh, I forgot that 'Thin shots sting!'. No kiddin?



    EVERY review of almost ANY Titleist product gets the same tired cliches:

    Traditional appearnce, looks like a serious players club (Come on! That's their freakin' slogan!),

    Won't cover up bad mishits, good distance and direction control,

    not the longest club out there, but consistent.



    Why bother? Why bother reading them, why both, as an OEM, sending your clubs there?



    I don't know what's worse - Golf Magazine's "and the winner is" (yes, there is only ONE best club, and if you don't buy this one...)

    or Golf Digest's 'Hot List' - where EVERYTHING is on the hot list!



    And, the 'majority' of the golfing public don't subscribe to golf magazines, nor do they spend $400 on a driver every year.




    Well done.



    Why don't some of the complainers out there buy a share of FO stock, go to the annual meeting and put your foot down? Or send an email to Titleist through their website? They will respond.



    I could get down the real story behind why Titleist is not in TW's game. It's probably not all that exciting. Something along the lines, of they were asked, they said no thanks, end of story.




    Why would I spend my hard earned money buying FO stock (not that it's a bad stock), going to the shareholders meeting and putting my foot down? What would that cost me and what would I get out of it? No thanks, I'll voice my opinion in other ways such as sending an email or simply not buying Titleist gear.



    To be honest, I don't understand why everybody is so argumentative about this. The thread discusses some of Titleist's strange behavior and odd sales tactics. I'm merely adding to the thread. I don't have anything against Titleist (I own many Camerons, vokey wedges and a few FW woods). I'm only saying that I think the above mentioned behavior is kind of strange. Can you honestly tell me that buy NOT participating in GOLF XX magazine's club test they are helping business? When they set rules regarding the sale of new merchandise online, is that helping business? When they force retailers to purchase pre-packs, is that helping business? Please don't argue with me about it, let's debate the business reasons behind it because what I'm telling you is that I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT!




    I don't see anyone being argumentative. I suggest sending an email to Titleist or visiting a FO meeting because it's better to get it from the source than here. I could go into great detail about why Titleist does what they do, but since I do not work for them, I shoudn't be speaking for them. However, in a nutshell, here is how it goes....



    Start with Titleist's mission statement: "Titleist's mission is to serve the needs of the serious and recreational golfer with value added products and services that have a competitive advantage worldwide. Titleist shall be a Product/Market Driven Company, local market responsive, but organized around centralized product development and supply systems. Be global but think local. Titleist is committed to satisfy golfers with golf products of superior performance and quality. The Titleist culture will be one of challenging up and supporting down. Recognizing that the ultimate competitive advantage is an environment that utilizes and develops the creative energies of all associates, our objective will be to develop goal directed work teams empowered to anticipate and respond to changing consumer/market conditions. "



    In other words, it is the goal of Titleist to market and promote their product as being for serious golfers and along those lines, it's superior product. It's product that requires expertise, expertise in playing them, expertise in selling them. It's product that is priced higher than it's competitors; this also plays to the perception of superiority. To further this strategy, Titleist wants to be very much in touch with their accounts (see local approach). They have a more comprehensive salesforce then their competitors. Even in small markets it is not uncommon for Titleist to have two sales reps (one dedicated to ball sales).



    In order for Titleist to meet these goals, they need to be in touch and in control of their distribution channel. The trade off for an account is that if the account takes the time to do it Titleist's way, then Titleist will protect their turf and the pricing. This is why you do not see them run to Internet discounters.



    A lot of you are here saying that you like the personal approach a small shop (on or off course) offers as compared to the turnstile approach by Golfsmith or Edwin Watts. Titleist likes this too, that's why you see their products in smaller accounts at higher prices. To them, they want the perception to hold that quality, attention to detail, and service costs more than the latest TM discontinued driver or irons.



    Titleist is a big believer in their distribution channels and their relationships; they will protect them. To them, that is their strategy, it is good for business, and it leads to long term sustained profitability.



    They are not TM trying to offer a product to everyone, and they are not Nike trying to get some market share. They do not need the club tests, it takes control away from their marketing approach. And you cannot fault Titleist for any bulk packaging of products they ask retailers to carry, all OEMs do that. And it's not like Titleist has a bunch of crummy product no one wants.



    If you do not think this is the right strategy, you can have your opinion, but you do not need to look to far for an example of how this strategy is proven to work. Compare Titleist golf balls to Spaulding Top Flite. They were once the two top sellers in the industry. Titleist only marketed to smaller shops and green grass accounts, the balls were promoted as being for tour players and they were expensive. Spaulding went for a wider base of accounts, including airport gift shops all the way to Wal Mart; they had low prices.



    Where is Spaulding now? Dead. Top Flite is now a Callaway product. And Titleist has not changed strategy at all. They are still a tour preferred ball, still expensive, and still #1.
  • Yellow JacketYellow Jacket Members Posts: 3,535 ✭✭
    Titleist is inevitably losing market share to TM and Cleveland. Callaway is no longer the power house it used to be.



    Frankly, we don't know whether they want to get back to their glory days with Tiger, Sergio, Phil, etc. They may be content with being a little less popular in the public while retaining their "performance" image.



    Additionally, I guarantee almost everyone who says "help preserve the pro shop" is also a "USA! USA!" person. You have to take the bad with the good and in this case, the bad is a paradigm shift in consumer purchasing of golf equipment. You think all the specialty music shops like Sam Goody and fyi are happy about digital media and iTunes taking so much of the market share? Of course not, but that's what happens in a free market. Brick & mortar stores are losing out to internet retailers, and that's a reality everyone has to deal with, including pro shops. They need to realize they will become service providers, not retailers. Do you hear anyone still shouting out "Don't buy milk from the grocery store, support the milk man!"? Of course not. In 15 years, you won't hear people saying "Don't buy clubs online, support the pro shop!" either because pro shops will be left with fitting carts and the only retailers to buy clubs from will be national chains and high traffic ranges. The golf distribution system is horribly antiquated compared to other industries. The majority of people don't care to hit a club before they buy it and they're the ones that have the most power to move the market.
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  • dannybsjdannybsj Members Posts: 840
    Agreed that titleist has done well for itself by appealing the the pompass a** in us all. This was expressed in the movie "falling down" when a guy on a golf course says if he doesnt move im going to hit him with my titleist!.. however they do make a fine product and have successfully marketed their clubs to the masses while maintaining an heir of exclusivity. Not only do the market tour players but the marked certain types of tour players. Those usually associated with the upper class and high society like davis love III. Sure they had tiger and ernie still playes their stuff but ernie has sort of an arrogance to him as well. They try to get the best of the best where others have tried to market the working man players like john daly or mega hitters like bubba watson. Titleist is like star bucks,they are everywhere but the cool kids play em! Not neccesarrily the right thing to do i suppose but whats right when talking about making money.
  • Extreme FirepowerExtreme Firepower Members Posts: 675
    I don't really believe there such a 'strange thing' in the marketplace, is it that the TMAG approach is to be perceived as the only marketing strategy out there and everything else is weird... there are many ways to skin a cat, make money and build brand loyality.



    I used to buy TM drives during the 80's great equipment it was but I'm sorry I haven't been back since I got burnt by the bubble burners, crap heads, worse shafts ever made, pathetic grips. This also extends to Adidas shoes, 3 pairs burst in a year... read 3 PAIRS in 12 months!!! and the added hassle of returning an internet purchased pair of shoes back, ended up going through the local Pro shop (and got a pair of $130 Tour 360's for a $70

    pair of climalites)



    Titleist market is players clubs, players tend not to order clubs over the internet blindly... who wants a set of 2* flat when your 2* upright as sandy said.



    When I bought my 670's there were no sets left for retail and the Rep got me a set from the tour dept with upgraded PX's which they didn't charge me for, tell me any internet retailer that can do that? I my experience if it doesn't show up in their warehouse computer it's 'sorry' and they hang up!



    Internet bulk sellers are always goint ot get business reagrdless of how they treat you, your local shop goes out of business if they treat you like sh!t



    Finally, if we all ordered off the internet, where would we get to demo out clubs? down in Wal-mart with some spotty teenage goth fitting us up for clubs ??
  • dannybsjdannybsj Members Posts: 840
    Finally, if we all ordered off the internet, where would we get to demo out clubs? down in Wal-mart with some spotty teenage goth fitting us up for clubs ??






    HaHaHa Bet he puts you into some black ones!
  • Extreme FirepowerExtreme Firepower Members Posts: 675
    iqonoqlast wrote on Apr 28 2006, 09:14 AM:


    The majority of people don't care to hit a club before they buy it and they're the ones that have the most power to move the market.




    Horribly wide of the mark that comment



    The majority of couch golfers who dabble or weekend weedchoppers by headcount maybe don't want to try before they buy or get fitted up but by revenue ($ spend on clubs) as far as the big name manufacturers are concern money made off these people is small fry & is not worth the effort, hence your Rams, Top Flights, Wilsons etc



    How many sets of Pings can you get new for under $400 ??



    None!



    Why pander to grunters & slashers who walk through the door with $99 to spend on a full set and tarnish your name/image ?? It happened to Callaway afer the BIg Bertha drivers.



    I'm sure Hippo have the margins to fit you up like Titleist can at the performance institute or Mizuno at thier European tour labs



    I mean look at Daly last season, Redneck putters falling apart on tour, who's going to buy that crap regardless of price ??



    If we don't support the golf industry as it's structured now we can expect a race to the bottom where quality of product and service

    and choice will suffer
  • Extreme FirepowerExtreme Firepower Members Posts: 675
    dannybsj wrote on Apr 28 2006, 09:38 AM:

    Finally, if we all ordered off the internet, where would we get to demo out clubs? down in Wal-mart with some spotty teenage goth fitting us up for clubs ??






    HaHaHa Bet he puts you into some black ones!






    image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ok:' />





    Never mind Poulter on tour in an Arsenal Soccer shirt, me in a washed out Iron Maiden T shirt image/tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
  • peglegpegleg Members Posts: 650 ✭✭
    iqonoqlast wrote on Apr 28 2006, 04:14 AM:






    Additionally, I guarantee almost everyone who says "help preserve the pro shop" is also a "USA! USA!" person.




    I don't understand this.



    I thought the 'USA! USA!' people were the ones who want to get paid union wages ($85 per hour, with ten breaks a day, and three strikes a year), but buy their stuff at Wal-Mart, where everyone makes minimum wage, no one knows or cares what's going on, and the stuff is all crap...



    Oh, and drives a Hummer...



    I'd like to 'preserve the pro shop' because I think people should be able to do something they like and care about, and make an honest living doing so - without having to cut price to the bone on every sale, because that's all anyone cares about.



    Or, let me ask, how many or you are in a 'price-matching' occupation? Yeah, right!
  • DemolitionManDemolitionMan It�s not a hill, it�s a mountain...As you start out the clim Members Posts: 3,874
    Extreme Firepower wrote on Apr 28 2006, 01:53 AM:




    If we don't support the golf industry as it's structured now we can expect a race to the bottom where quality of product and service

    and choice will suffer




    That's not true. The golf industry like many other industries is enjoying access to overseas labor at much lower costs. The difference in labor quality is hardly noticeable. Now if the price of titanium, steel, or carbon were to go way, way up maybe the OEMs would be put to the test of lowering quality to maintain a lower price, but I don't see that happenning.



    If anything, the golf industry will suffer if it continues it's current structure. At the least, the Internet has brought about more shoppers armed with more knowledge than before. OEMs and golf shops better look for more efficiencies and ways to provide better service or they will get squashed by those who use large scales of economies. And some OEMs cannot afford $10's of Millions mistakes like bigger OEMs, so they better be smart about how they make changes. The industry as a whole is struggling to grow, the Tiger effect is just about over, so status quo in the structure is not going to get it done.



    OEMs are always going to compete, look for an edge, maximize margins, but even the smaller ones are hardly suffering. So long as you can contain costs, there is pretty good margin in golf clubs for an OEM. Your local shop may be suffering trying to sell the $400+ HiBore, but Cleveland already banked the profit.
  • Extreme FirepowerExtreme Firepower Members Posts: 675
    Have to disagree,



    buyouts by the big OEMs like Callaway with Hogan and Tommy Armour with Ram hurt choice and the posts here about internet shopping vouch service is taking a back seat bif time.



    As to lower quality, i've had crap callaway products maxfli and TM (all mass produce far east stuff)... same can't be said of macgregor, sorry but consumers are always going to trust the true craftmanship as you can see by folk moaning about forgings and finishes.



    Someone getting paid 50 cents a day to manufacture golf clubs in china doesn't give a s*** about brand quality over a homegrown master craftsman and you can post whatever you want but that's an undisputed fact!
  • DemolitionManDemolitionMan It�s not a hill, it�s a mountain...As you start out the clim Members Posts: 3,874
    Extreme Firepower wrote on Apr 29 2006, 12:16 AM:


    Have to disagree,



    buyouts by the big OEMs like Callaway with Hogan and Tommy Armour with Ram hurt choice and the posts here about internet shopping vouch service is taking a back seat bif time.



    As to lower quality, i've had crap callaway products maxfli and TM (all mass produce far east stuff)... same can't be said of macgregor, sorry but consumers are always going to trust the true craftmanship as you can see by folk moaning about forgings and finishes.



    Someone getting paid 50 cents a day to manufacture golf clubs in china doesn't give a s*** about brand quality over a homegrown master craftsman and you can post whatever you want but that's an undisputed fact!




    Well, to each his own, but nothing you have posted here is fact. You must be the only person citing the buyout of Ram as a blow to consumer choice. Talk about spilt milk.



    Hogan was like the red-headed step child of the golf industry and they brought that upon themselves. Golfers stopped caring. It's too bad a company rich with tradition was sucked up through Callaway's bottom fishing in the bankruptcy court, but Cally wasn't after Hogan, they were after ball patents and manufacutring, Hogan just came along for the ride.



    But that's what happens when a perfectly good brand like Hogan gets neglected. When you do not get with the latest trends, you do not nurture the brand at the grass roots level, you show little progress in technology, then you get left behind. Long before Callaway got Hogan in the firesale, Hogan couldn't even be bothered to make a decent driver when the all the rage in golf is with the driver.



    Macgregor has a similar strategy to Titleist, except they have positioned themselves at the forefront of using innovative technologies. It wasn't always that way for Macgregor. Barry Schneider took a brand with a solid reputation, but suffering due to its inability to distinguish itself, and he invigorated it with much needed capital, energy, and creativty. You cite Macgregor has some shining example of American quality and craftsmanship, but they already had that going for them and they were losing big time. I cite Macgregor as a great example of what I posted earlier - OEMs better learn to innovate, create, find efficiencies, and find ways to reach out the the consumer better or they will be gone. Macgregor is doing just that.



    You know what's really funny? You cry that the industry suffers when buyouts occur and choices are hurt. Yet do you know who tried, unsuccessfully, a very big buyout last year of Callaway? Your beloved Macgregor.
  • augiep38augiep38 Members Posts: 142
    I don't see Titleists practices as being snobbish. I see them as ethical and fair treatment to theri loyal vendors. Look at it this way:



    If you were a loyal Titleist account for x amount of years and took the time to properly fit people into the right clubs (I have personally witnessed a few people go to get fit into some Titleist irons and been introduced to the Cobra products which fit their game better), followed Titleist programs, gave input to Titleist, etc. It is a good symbiotic relationship. Then all of the sudden Titleist starts dumping product to big box online stores who are effectively wholesaling out product to the end user, yoou would be upset too.



    I see this as jumping the supply line. In today's society where the bulk of people only focus on the bottom line, most will never understand this.



    My wife works in the lumber industry and deals with the same problem day in and day out. Some moron contractor calls the mill and wants to buy direct because he doesn't want to pay the price that the local lumber yard is selling for. But the local lumber yards are customers of the mill. Why would you want to compete with your customers?



    Todd
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