Problems regarding club pros/managers against junior golfers

Have any of you guys had signs of aggression shown towards you when playing golf as a junior. I come to ask this because to me, it seems like some club professionals and managers really have it out for junior golfers.

My back story is the aggression the local manager/club pro has shown me since starting to golf. It all started when I used to hit 3-4 buckets of golf balls at high school golf practice 2 years ago. I was really bad, but it seemed like everytime I went to hit golf balls, they said something about it, in a mean way. Instead of saying "I think that you should put more emphasis on your short game", they would say "you arent gonna get better hitting more golf balls". The whole PGA club-pro helping attitude has always bothered me since these suggestions they have offered were never backed by practice help. Well the problems at my club have continued none the less, and its gotten to the point that I wonder whether junior golfers are really targeted for being young and not always considering the simple rules of golf. I have been yelled at by the golf course professional for such things as hitting an extra ball on a hole (of course not on the weekend or even a day when 3 people were on the course, but me by myself). Another problem that I have seen is how much juniors get targeted for simple cart driving. When some 40 year olds pull up to the green, they seem to get away with it more than when a junior would get within 30 yards. However, my biggest problem has always been with aggression when I drove my cart on slightly damp grass. It rained half an inch this past day, and I decided to play a quick round. On holes with standing water in reserved places, I opted not to drive on the grass. However, on the holes that had no visible signs of water, I drove and left absolutely no tire mark. Well, by the 4th hole, I was ungratefully approached by a club assistant, and I was told to consider being thrown ut for a day because I was driving on "wet" grass. I of course defended the fact that if there is no standing water, or no "cart paths only" signs out, that the minimal I could do was the 90º rule.

I don't know of many situations like this, but if any of you can concure, please do, as I feel there is a general prejudice towards junior golfers that take golf seriously.

yeah i used treated pooly about 90 percent of the time, less now that I am a bit older, but when I was 12 my mom would drop me off at the muni during the summer and I didnt feel welcome at all.

idk some guys just dont like kids??

maybe cuz its were young and we can outplay then

Yea man, I play at a "country club", and it really isnt good. Its actually just a municipal course but its privatized. The worst part is the fact that you dont even feel welcome asking them questions, which leads them to purposely harass you.

The only thing that gets club pros more angry than me beating them is when a girl beats them. It seems like some old guys can't stand the thought of losing. And everytime I play a I feel like the marshalls intentionally follow me to make sure I don't do anything wrong. Oh man, but when my sister beats a couple of guys, they get really angry. So at least I don't have to deal with that level of animosity.

In my opinion, far too many golf course operators treat kids disrespectfully as the OP is discussing. I believe that to be one of the reasons golf is not growing. [b]We need to encourage kids to play[/b]. Far to many club members also discourage their play for selfish reasons.

Kevin

I was lucky enough to start out, as a 12 year-old, at a local club which had a very evolved attitude towards junior golfers. We were fortunate enough, as junior members, to have a thriving competitive schedule, a junior team that played regularly and which benefitted from complementary tuition from the professional and the assistant, and a junior organiser who was wonderfully keen to further our games and to give us every chance to enjoy the game and to improve. In short, we were bloody lucky. There were, naturally enough, some restrictions placed upon us in terms of tee times, priority on the course and suchlike, but for the most part we were lucky enough to play a top notch golf course as often as we liked and whenever we wanted. Good behaviour was expected at all times and we all strove to maintain high standards of dress and ettiquette as a condition of our membership.

Despite all that, it being an old school type of English golf club there was always a ready supply of members who seemed to take it as their right to bully us, as juniors, whenever they felt like it. For some members it seemed to be something they genuinely enjoyed and which they did to show off in front of similarly-minded cronies. As someone who achieved a low handicap at a relatively young age I was in no doubt that a lot of the motivation for many of the armchair hitlers was jealousy of their lack of ability versus some of the better, teenaged, junior members.

If you're a junior member you're in a very precarious position. A section of the membership will always see you as being their own personal whipping boys and take it upon themselves, as if by right, to criticise you and to point out things they see you doing wrong - whether or not you actually [i]are[/i] in the wrong. Some will do it out of a misguided 'obligation' to mentor you, whether or not they know you, and some will do it because they simply have a sadistic streak and want to use you to flatter their oversized egos.

My recommendation is simply to give them no ammunition. Make sure you're always on your nest behaviour at the club. Obey all the rules, make sure your appearance is beyond reproach and, as much as possible, don't give people anything to moan about. If you do incur the wrath of one of the Club Gestapo, keep your head down, let them say what they've got to say - safe in the knowledge that you haven't actually done anything wrong and are thus not going to actually cop any flak from someone who actually matters - and deny them the pleasure of seeing you rise to any bait. If you're a young golfer, serious about your game and with some ability, you can take a rollocking from some idiot for five minutes and smile about it afterwards when you sit back and contemplate the fact that the bloke's never broken 80 in his life and thus has to get his thrills by bullying younger members at the club as a substitute for a lack of playing ability.

Sometimes, doing everything by the book can get a bit tedious and it certainly can rankle when you see other members doing all sorts of things, with impunity, and yet never get told off for them. The fact is though, if you're the grey man who never puts a foot wrong, you soon become a very difficult target for the people who get their kicks from targeting people who[i] are[/i] in the wrong. As a junior you're an easy - and perhaps[i] natural[/i] - target for the self-appointed Standards Committee. It's not right; it's not fair. But you can make it all the more difficult for them by making yourself hard to pin down. Not only will you quickly cease to be someone who people automatically gravitate towards when they feel the need to flex their muscles, you'll also be getting them hot under the collar in a lot of cases by spoiling their fun. I don't know about you, but I always enjoyed that bit.

Keep your head down, go about your business and let your clubs - and your manners - do the talking.

I find that the attitudes towards juniors gets worse as the courses get more expensive. When I play munis the guys are great and encourage me and talk golf with me. But when I go to a daily fee $80+ course the course people see me as a an annoyance. THe worst is when you are trying out or looking to buy equipment, one time I was a GG trying out a TM Driver and the guy comes over and tells me that htat driver is $300 and hands me a Acuity POS, that really ticked me off as I take great pride in my equipment.

Hey Mat, you seem to have the best idea so far. Yea, it can be tedious to obey the rules, but what gets me more is when you obey their rules, but they say that you play by YOUR rules. In reality, its just a form of anger that doesnt need to be there. Of course it creates alot of tension, and it only gets worse with as many times the get onto you. Today I will try to play, I'll report on the matter later on, and I will see how wet the grass is before attempting to drive my cart on grass.

My take is that if someone's going to be an arse and throw his weight around, there's very little you can do to stop it. Every club has one or two (sometimes more) of the type of pompous oaf who simply delights in massaging their ego and showing off. At a golf club, the natural target for these people is the junior golfer. You're not going to stop him indulging himself with his particular character flaw - he no doubt does the same thing everywhere he goes, aside from the golf club - but if you give him very little reason to pick on you in particular then you're going to be spared for the most part.

It's unfortunate but it's the way of the world. As someone above stated, it tends to be older, more expensive courses where this type of peron finds a happy hunting ground. If you cut down on the opportunities for them to pick up on something then they'll move on to someone else or, hopefully, have a very frustrating day where they end up simply playing golf and don't get a single opportunity to have a moan at some poor unfortunate sod who's minding his own business and getting on with his round or his practice.

My attitude is always to make yourself as hard a target as possible. Equate it to a battlefield. In an ideal world, people wouldn't be shooting at each other but, since they are, it seem sensible enough not to stick your head up above the trench if you can help it.

My old home club of which i left, they argued juniour's only pay £90 a year where as they paid £570.
Needless to say i told the moaning elders that if they liked i would pay £570 a year and still kick their arse's.

The main problem with junior golfers is the handicapping system, or I should say old system penalised them and caused senior members to be quite envious. Basically juniors playing golf regularly , if you have some natural ability will improve, now couple this with the school holidays an dplaying every day, your going to be in the prizes alot, as your handicap could only be cut a certain amount. I remember 1 junior shooting 47 stableford points off 14 and only being cut to 11 in a summer, he'd had a 2nd and a 3 rd the previous weeks. He should have been " docked to 9 handicap" which would have prevented him shooting 42 points the next week and winning the comp again. That junior was me.

I was a member of two private clubs, on the BOD and played match team events which included weekly visits to opposing private clubs. I've never seen what's inferred in this thread at either upscale public or private clubs.

My boy was nine year old when I joined the most recent club; he's now a teenager. We had at least 30 member couples that had kids under 17 playing as well. All the negative comments about Pro treatment surprises me; makes me wonder; course out kids knew how to behave when at the club. None of the kids were treated poorly; they had it pretty nice in fact.

We had four touring pros as members and when they were not out on tour they intermittently would take kids out for 9 holes of playing lessons, or help them on the range. Our head pro and assistant would do the same, and sometimes they would show up at HS golf events just to be supportive and in some cases caddy.

[quote name='Pepperturbo' post='2122575' date='Dec 13 2009, 02:29 PM']I was a member of two private clubs, on the BOD and played match team events which included weekly visits to opposing private clubs. I've never seen what's inferred in this thread at either upscale public or private clubs.

My boy was nine year old when I joined the most recent club; he's now a teenager. We had at least 30 member couples that had kids under 17 playing as well. All the negative comments about Pro treatment surprises me; makes me wonder. At the clubs where I've been a member none of the kids were treated poorly; they had it pretty nice. We had four touring pros as members and when they were not out on tour they intermittently would take kids out for 9 holes of playing lessons, or help them on the range. Our head pro and assistant would do the same, and sometimes they would show up at HS golf events just to be supportive and in some cases caddy.[/quote]

You are fortunate to have such an exceptional staff!

Kevin

Well I'm happy to report that I didn't have problems today, as I decided to only ride cart paths. The only reason being for me to ride a cart in the first place is because I have schuerzmanns back syndrome, which is a form of spine curvature. Pepper, you must have really nice people that really care about the good of the game. I have been to more upscale golf courses that have treated people really well, it really just depends on where you are, one person can ruin a club, or make it better.

[quote name='Rendog92' post='2122926' date='Dec 13 2009, 06:34 PM']Well I'm happy to report that I didn't have problems today, as I decided to only ride cart paths. The only reason being for me to ride a cart in the first place is because I have schuerzmanns back syndrome, which is a form of spine curvature. Pepper, you must have really nice people that really care about the good of the game. I have been to more upscale golf courses that have treated people really well, it really just depends on where you are, one person can ruin a club, or make it better.[/quote]


Kill them with kindness, Always say Please, thank you, i'm sorry, your correct, etc etc. Minimize your time and conversation with these people don't engage them in the least. Once they realize they can't get the best of you they will leave you alone, this applys to the GC and life. Don't feed in to their agenda thats what they want.

I'll never forget the one time my friend took me to his country club for the first time.

We were playing just as the two of us, and there was a single kid that caught up to us on the turn. Me and my buddy were waiting for the 4 some in front of us, and decided to let the kid join up. As we were waiting, another single older guy comes off the 9th green towards us, and starts yelling at us for cutting in front of him and holding him up.

We just decided to ignore him, play our tee shots, and keep up with the foursome ahead of us. I haven't been back there since, but if thats what the country club life is like, I want no part.

And FYI, when I see a junior hitting balls on the range, I'll actually give him some extras. I know a few years ago I was left to pay for greens fees and range balls, and I would've been elated if someone gave me more. So I always throw that little bone out there a few times a day.

I think it is completely true at our local muni course (it's crap but good to practice at cause it's cheap) everyone knows everyone and we are all about courtesy and even the elders respect juniors who know the rules but when I go to play more exclusive clubs it seems like there is a target on my back and I'm to scared to do anything for the fear of being kicked out for a stupid reason i.e driving on the grass even during 90 degree rule

I would say that many juniors are probably catching any pent up anymosity that cannot be expressed towards the members. The thing about working at a country club is that you have somewhere from 200-1000 "bosses". Most of them who think that no rules apply to them. For some club pros and staff this attitude can be very taxing and a junior is an easy target to get some of that frustration out on. I am not condoning this or saying this is right; it's just the way it seems to be. Being a member of a country club staff takes a certain personality set, that not everyone who ends up working in that line of work possesses.

The best thing you can do is be polite and respectful and realize it won't last long, a few years is nothing when you get a bit older. It is unfortunate, but I am glad you enjoy the game enough to keep at it despite this. If you were at my club I would be happy to play with you.

my course is awful, okay lets go with a [b]light example

[/b]older guy beside he is trying to hit the cart, cart person drives right up in front of me and state " if you aim one more at me, I'm going to drive you over with this golf cart" to me when i was 13 years old....when he drove away I was tempted to nail one at him(didnt thought pointless) i look to the older gentelman who is rolling on the ground in luaghter

this is just a light example of how they treat me at my club lol, well EX CLUB.

other then this course, i feel that i am treated very well wherever i go to, manages are 99% of the time great to the youth i find, and go beyond the expected to help out, marshalls are another story. lol

Ive been playing at the same course for 2 1/2 years now and i still feel that im not welcomed by some members. Granted some members and professionals at the course have taken me into their care and even played with me. But it all started when i was first there and wanted a handicap and asked the club pro to start me up in the system and i was with my mom. The pro greeted me and my mom with a speech saying that he would need to talk to my coach or the high school coach if i could get one. Long story short i my dad was furious and we went the next day and talked to a different man and got it set up but anyhow i feel your pain.

Reading threads like this about junior golfers makes me

What kind of "golf lovers" treat junior golfers this way? The only way to ensure the future of this game of ours is to ensure that future generations get the bug too!

Every club has its pompous, knuckle-dragging troll. I've seen it over and over, and unfortunately the easiest targets for these guys are junior golfers and female golfers - EXACTLY those who ought to get the most encouragement.

I feel all of the guy's pain who are above me. It still makes me laugh though that I've actually had the club manager yell at me and use this as a comparison
"I guarantee you wouldnt have driven the carts on the grass at (the other course that I played)". Well, to be honest, I would drive it in the grass if it wasn't wet, just like my home course was when I got yelled at. The thing is, they still think that when it rains 1/10 an inch and I drive with the 90º rule, that it's their right to verbally abuse me. I don't really mind it since I am moving, but it has definitely been a bad time. It stinks when the only course there is within 25 miles is the one with unmanaged old Tifgreen 328 grass, yard grass rough, weed fairways, and rude staff. Lately though I haven't had any problems, maybe this is their way of giving me a Christmas present.

I think it all depends on where you're at. Where I play it's definitely an issue, the teens just get targeted.

One time, 4 buddies and I went out to play at like 2 on some day on the middle of the week. There was literally nobody on the front nine. We never saw any groups behind us until the sixth tee when we saw some people coming up the second hole. Well turns out that group spotted that we were playing as a fivesome and called into the proshop because regardless of if we were actually slowing play, the principle of us breaking the rules was just too much for them to bare. Of course the ranger speeds out in his cart and demands we split up or we're to be kicked off the course. We tried to reason with him. Considering two of the kids in the group are headed to high D1 schools and I was the junior club champ at the time we figured they might cut us some slack. They knew we never caused any trouble at all. No go, instead we were goven a stern lecture about god knows what and had to finish as two separate groups.

I don't know, maybe this isn't a big deal but I just couldn't believe the lack of respect we recieved. Everyone at the course seems to have a preconcieved notion that kids are bad folders and are only out there to cause problems. Though it is always adults that seem to be causing the problems.

Fair play that what you were doing is pretty harmless and inconvenienced no one but, if fivesomes aren't allowed at your club, and you knew it, you've essentially cocked a snook at the rules and decided to do something that you knew was prohibited anyway. As such, there's a limit to how much sympathy you'll garner from a lot of people - even fair-mined ones like, I hope, [i]me[/i].

I can see your point, and the members behind have certainly been pigheaded, but at the end of the day you [i]are [/i] in the wrong and should have played the entire time knowing full well that there was the chance of copping a rollocking if you were seen by someone with a bit of a chip on their shoulder. As such, when it came - regardless of how you feel about it - you haven't really got a leg to stand on.

Don't get me wrong; I'm more than half on your side. But going out and doing something like that is a bit like bombing along a deserted motorway at 3 a.m. at 120mph. It may well be a perfectly reasonable time to do it, if ever there is one, but at the end of the day you know full well that you're taking a chance and, as such, you can't really complain when you see the blue lights behind you and you cop for a summons.

I wrote earlier in this thread that, in my experience, it's an unfortunate fact of life at some 'old fashioned' clubs that there will always be a small cadre of members who deliberately pick fault with a certain element of the membership. That element, 99% of the time, are junior golfers. It isn't right and it certainly isn't fair but, for many, it's a fact of life. You can either butt heads with them - and lose - or you can box clever and make yourself a difficult target.

This is not a criticism of the five of you - as I've certainly done similar things in my time (practicing around greens was my particular naughty habit as a youngster) and so I have some sympathy - but by going out and deliberately flouting a rule you've essentially made the job of those idiots a lot easier and, dare I say it, given them encouragement to carry on doing what they do by giving their mean spirits a gee up. If there's a rule that you[i] know[/i] you're going to be picked up on if you break it, and which you know will be the daily bread of some of the stuffed shirts at your club, you [i]really do[/i] need to stick to the basics and simply make sure that you don't break it. Going out like you did (and, yes, [i]like I've done[/i] in my time) is like waving a red rag in front of a bull.

When I was young, I was taught an old mantra: [i]Rules are for the observance of fools and the guidance of wise men.[/i] Very true, but it could possibly do with the addition of a rider:[i] ...and they're also for the entertainment of arseholes.[/i]

i too agree with mat,

it is even harder if you work and play at the same golf course,
90% of the guys i work with are young and people often treat us poorly,
while some of the membership adore us and praise us...it is like mat said though
in a way show them up, give them a taste of their own medicine, take pride in looking like
a touring pro even if you are out there hitting a small basket....and the other thing it worked for
me....is when you are with other junior memebers, buddies etc...and they tend to make a mess
on or off the course tidy it up, someone will notice and its the little things that matter to the snobs

It pisses me off when, I play and practice 7 days a week and every I get paired up with somebody, they decide that just because I'm a junior, I'm a 30 handicap hack. It's pretty awesome though when you back that up with a 72, lol.

I've never really been pestered by anybody at a course. But what bothers me is the generalization of juniors.

Everytime I tee it up with anyone regardless of age I assume they are going to be terrible. Sometimes I am proved wrong. It only takes a hole or two to see when someone has some game. Sometimes it turns out I am the one that is terrible by comparison. Try not to take it too seriously. Just say "Pleasure to meet you." When you shoot something in the 30's on the front 9 it will work itself out.

I grew up on an old public course where the club pro was a fan of helping enhance junior golf.

Two high school teams used it as their home course, he encouraged junior tournaments, held junior lesson clinics in the summer, and even had summer break junior cards where kids under 18 could buy an unlimited golf pass for the summer for $100.

The men's and women's club memberships were very supportive. Many of the people who lived on the course would catch up to us walking and offer to let us ride long in their carts for the remainder of the round, help us with our swings--sometimes not for the better--and made sure we were on the short list as scramble partners every Saturday morning.

Never once did I have a negative experience as a junior and credit that for a major reason why I stayed with such a frustrating hobby this long.

I'm sorry for you juniors who have to deal with the negativity. Shame on those who lump all the kids together into one group, for they're ultimately the ones losing out. Playing a round of golf with a 16 year old who is a scratch player is a lot of fun---you get to use your older, wiser, more treacherous mental torture techniques to test their metal. lol

For some reason a lot of guys working at pro shops or courses feel they are far too important to take the time to be respectful. It must come from some need for control and attention. They are the ones that have a low index and take free drops and brag about their game.

[quote name='Rohlio' date='17 January 2010 - 12:39 AM' timestamp='1263710373' post='2186425']
Everytime I tee it up with anyone regardless of age I assume they are going to be terrible. Sometimes I am proved wrong. It only takes a hole or two to see when someone has some game. Sometimes it turns out I am the one that is terrible by comparison. Try not to take it too seriously. Just say "Pleasure to meet you." When you shoot something in the 30's on the front 9 it will work itself out.
[/quote]


Yeah, I try my best to ignore the looks that I get when I walk back the the blacks (7200). I try to be friendly with some people, but sometimes they can't get past the idea that a junior just beat them by 15 strokes. Anyways these people are the exception, most people I play with are great guys.