Reading a new book (Extraordinary Golf) and am stunned!

In the winter months, I love to tinker and practice indoors and read books on golf. On another thread, somebody recommended Extraordinary Golf by Fred Shoemaker. I checked it out of my local library yesterday and read 75% of it and can't believe what I saw. I assumed that the book was about the mental aspect of the game, which it is. So far it is excellent on that level.

What surprised me was a story he told. He said he was on the range with a mid handicapper and no matter what he did, the student came over the top and flipped. Finally, the teacher took the ball away and told the student to swing the club with one goal - throw the club down the target line. I have heard this before and never gave it another thought. The student was unable to do it initially. After many tries, he found the feeling and was able to do it again and again. The teacher video taped the ball swing and throwing the club swing.

He then spoke to an entire group of students and showed them stills of the videos of each of their swings. The students ranged from 10 handicaps to 25 or higher and included men and women. He showed each of them stills from the ball swing. Bad weight shift, off plane, no lag, hands flipping through impact. He asked why they do that and they all say they know what they are supposed to do but it hasn't worked, even after many lessons.

He then shows them stills from the throwing the club swing. Great weight shift, on plane, plenty of lag and the most beautiful impact position you could imagine - no flipping. Well, I didn't believe it until I got to pg 64-79 of the book. He actually put photos of the swings from the video in the book and I actually started to laugh. Some of the people are the most unathletic looking people you have ever seen. Their ball swing looks exactly as you would expect. Their throwing the club swing looks like they are a 2 handicap.

How this throwing the club swing translates on the course is an entirely different story. Shoemaker's theory is that we all have our own swing. Once we take the ball out of the equation and focus on the target, our swing will change. I still have quite a bit of the book to go, but was so surprised by the photos, I wanted to tell somebody - my wife just doesn't care. I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

Here's an article about the topic with a sample of photos of ballswing vs. throw the club swing on page 4. http://golf.about.com/od/golftips/ss/club_throwing.htm

Scott

Can't wait to give it a try. Maybe I'll be a 2 by next weekend?

I find the same is true with putting, I putt my best when all I think about is the line to start the ball on, no mechanics, just rolling the ball on the starting line. I also find a simple putter better without circles, arrows, lines, shapes etc.

Visual imagery while playing especially, always seems to work better than mechanical imagery, Jack Nicklaus called it "going to the movies" in his book.

[quote name='JJH' date='31 January 2010 - 08:16 AM' timestamp='1264943812' post='2216296']
Can't wait to give it a try. Maybe I'll be a 2 by next weekend?
[/quote]

My point wasn't that it will make you a 2. It was to show a training drill from a very respected author/pro that might be helpful to some to show that they can actually swing a club and try to get that feel.

I have used this drill for several years with my students and it is outstanding. I took about 10 broken shafts with grips on them and cut them all to the same length, put some weight in the shafts and a golf ball on the end and this is what I have them toss.
You need to make sure the 1st time you do this that you're in a wide open area as I have had students that tossed the clubs directly behind them or way left of where they thought they were going.

[quote name='goldfinger007' date='31 January 2010 - 08:58 AM' timestamp='1264946314' post='2216349']
I have used this drill for several years with my students and it is outstanding. I took about 10 broken shafts with grips on them and cut them all to the same length, put some weight in the shafts and a golf ball on the end and this is what I have them toss.
You need to make sure the 1st time you do this that you're in a wide open area as I have had students that tossed the clubs directly behind them or way left of where they thought they were going.
[/quote]

Thanks for your reply. I am surprised I have not heard more people talking about this.
How do you tell your students to take it to the course? Is it a matter of doing the drills until there is muscle memory? Thanks.

A good drill is to toss 4 and then hit 4 or toss 1 - hit 1. There is no such thing as [i]muscle memory[/i] as the only muscle in our body that has memory is our brain, but there is such a thing as motion memory and the act of doing something over and over creates a new behavior.

[quote name='Scottk' date='31 January 2010 - 07:52 AM' timestamp='1264942354' post='2216272']
I still have quite a bit of the book to go, but was so surprised by the photos, I wanted to tell somebody - my wife just doesn't care. I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

Scott
[/quote]

My wife does not care either.

Met him years ago at a seminar he put on...Great stuff. Has a golf school in California as well...

[quote name='Scottk' date='31 January 2010 - 07:52 AM' timestamp='1264942354' post='2216272']
In the winter months, I love to tinker and practice indoors and read books on golf. On another thread, somebody recommended Extraordinary Golf by Fred Shoemaker. I checked it out of my local library yesterday and read 75% of it and can't believe what I saw. I assumed that the book was about the mental aspect of the game, which it is. So far it is excellent on that level.

What surprised me was a story he told. He said he was on the range with a mid handicapper and no matter what he did, the student came over the top and flipped. Finally, the teacher took the ball away and told the student to swing the club with one goal - throw the club down the target line. I have heard this before and never gave it another thought. The student was unable to do it initially. After many tries, he found the feeling and was able to do it again and again. The teacher video taped the ball swing and throwing the club swing.

He then spoke to an entire group of students and showed them stills of the videos of each of their swings. The students ranged from 10 handicaps to 25 or higher and included men and women. He showed each of them stills from the ball swing. Bad weight shift, off plane, no lag, hands flipping through impact. He asked why they do that and they all say they know what they are supposed to do but it hasn't worked, even after many lessons.

He then shows them stills from the throwing the club swing. Great weight shift, on plane, plenty of lag and the most beautiful impact position you could imagine - no flipping. Well, I didn't believe it until I got to pg 64-79 of the book. He actually put photos of the swings from the video in the book and I actually started to laugh. Some of the people are the most unathletic looking people you have ever seen. Their ball swing looks exactly as you would expect. Their throwing the club swing looks like they are a 2 handicap.

How this throwing the club swing translates on the course is an entirely different story. Shoemaker's theory is that we all have our own swing. Once we take the ball out of the equation and focus on the target, our swing will change. I still have quite a bit of the book to go, but was so surprised by the photos, I wanted to tell somebody - my wife just doesn't care. I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

Here's an article about the topic with a sample of photos of ballswing vs. throw the club swing on page 4. [url="http://golf.about.com/od/golftips/ss/club_throwing.htm"]http://golf.about.co...ub_throwing.htm[/url]

Scott
[/quote]

Thanks, for sharing Scott. I bet this would reduce strokes for a high handicapper
after one session. This site is filled with technical clutter and clubs that promise
the world. I like the thought of getting your mind freed up to use your own swing.


Aslan

[quote name='Scottk' date='31 January 2010 - 04:52 AM' timestamp='1264942354' post='2216272']
[b][i][size="4"]I wanted to tell somebody - my wife just doesn't care. [/size][/i] [/b]

Scott
[/quote]

[b]LOL !![/b]

Hmmm... I wonder if anyone else here has experienced this same response?

Extraordinary Golf is truly an amazing book. The club throwing drill is amazing in what have seen it do for people who honestly believe "I can never swing a golf club like X..."

I am glad you are enjoying it as I think I was the one who suggested it in another thread.

If you can actually use his method to teach a true beginner you will be amazed. My mother is 62 years old and quite possibly the most nonathletic person I have ever met. She wanted to play golf with her husband and with the rest of the family when we go on Vacation. After several disastrous attempts with my Father and a few lessons with her club pro she decided that 120 shots on 9 holes was just not fun and decided to quit. I invited her up to see me for a 5 day clinic. When she got here I spent a while talking with her about what she wanted out of the game. I asked her if she could try to forget everything she has been told to this point and just try an experiment with me.

I had her hit 5 or six balls and it looked like this:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VzuicLSp3g"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=6VzuicLSp3g[/url]

Wow holy reverse weight shift batman.....the left wrist what happened arrghhh....OMG Ze GoggleZ Zey Do NoTHING1!!


Then I had her try the club throwing drill it looked like this:


[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e43BS7vRVjA"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=e43BS7vRVjA[/url]


I had her do this about 20 times or so. Can't exactly figure out why no wrist ****, but I am not trying to manipulate her, I am just experimenting and letting her body figure how how to do the task assigned. I would toss a ball out and have her throw the club at it. Amazingly her weight starts to shift properly. and her left wrist stays flat through the impact zone.


I then reintroduce the ball and tell her to just try to imagine throwing the club head to the target and it looks like this.:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBkAFfc1WVA"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=kBkAFfc1WVA[/url]

Still no wrist **** but the difference is unbelievable. It took her about 15 mins. Her weight is shifting naturally and she is finding a reasonably flat left wrist at impact. Itell her simply if your shots fly to the left of the target imagine throwing the club head farther to the right, if they go to far to the right imagine throwing it farther to the left. After several balls her body fiigures out how to hit it straight

I applied the rest of the book to her short game then spent about two days teaching her how to get around the course in under 4 hours (one of her goals was to not slow the group down); with important lessons like "Practice strokes are unnecessary..."; "How to Tee ball with one hand..."; "How to Remove and replace headcovers while walking to and from the tee box..." and most importantly "How to efficiently place one's bag on the way to the next hole before putting". She played 18 holes with a 4some on the last day in 3 hours and 55 minutes and shot 109. Amazing. More importantly she had fun on the course for the first time I had seen.

This book also helped me work towards a swing that works for me and that I am conscious of. I did the club throwing and about once a year go to an open field and do it again to help me remember. There is also a section in the book on pgs 84-87 that covers the idea of swing timing and the 3/1 ratio which is often discussed in this forum from the 'Tour Tempo' teaching; in fact it was in Shoemaker's book that I first encountered that timing concept. Lots of good stuff in this book. Glad to see it has helped others as well.

Wow, great thread - thanks for sharing. Time to start collecting old clubs!

[quote name='Joe Duffer' date='31 January 2010 - 11:44 AM' timestamp='1264956284' post='2216638']
[quote name='Scottk' date='31 January 2010 - 04:52 AM' timestamp='1264942354' post='2216272']
[b][i][size="4"]I wanted to tell somebody - my wife just doesn't care. [/size][/i] [/b]

Scott
[/quote]
[b]LOL !![/b]
Hmmm... I wonder if anyone else here has experienced this same response?
[/quote]

Funny, when I come home after playing 18 holes and simply want to review my shots on each hole with my wife, her reaction implies she just doesn't care. She doesn't seem to care about the specs of the new Diamana Kai'li either. Strange.

My wife thinks it's funny when I rewind the DVR to see if a player switched driver shafts...

I did catch her laughing at me the other day when she realized that Phil and I have the same shaft and grip combo on our driver (fubuki and white New decade); because she knows I am not a Phil fan (although I am temporary ally of his on this whole groove debacle). So I think she might actually be paying attention.

Well, there's a method to learn golf based on that concept, down here in France...

Fred Greene has interviewed Mr. Shoemaker several times on the Golf Smarter Podcast. All are excellent, as well. Really great information on awareness and skill development.

I've played golf with some tremendous golfers, but none as impressive as an old friend who is on the REMAX LDA. His one BIG tip for hitting it LONG and DEEP.... Throw your club down the line!!!!!

Jack Nicklaus did this thru the 70's until he changed his swing in the 80's with Jack Grout "The Full Swing."

[color="#ff0000"]WARNING!!!!

DO NOT FORGET TO FINISH YOUR WRIST ROTATION WHILE YOU ARE THROWING YOUR CLUB DOWN THE LINE OR YOU WILL BE IN BLOCK-OUT CITY BEFORE YOU KNOW IT!!!!

[/color]

[quote name='Rohlio' date='31 January 2010 - 12:11 PM' timestamp='1264957880' post='2216694']I applied the rest of the book to her short game then spent about two days teaching her how to get around the course in under 4 hours (one of her goals was to not slow the group down); with important lessons like "Practice strokes are unnecessary..."; "How to Tee ball with one hand..."; "How to Remove and replace headcovers while walking to and from the tee box..." and most importantly "How to efficiently place one's bag on the way to the next hole before putting". She played 18 holes with a 4some on the last day in 3 hours and 55 minutes and shot 109. Amazing. More importantly she had fun on the course for the first time I had seen.
[/quote]
That is an amazing story! Your mom has a terrific (and patient) son and should be proud of you.

I've read the book and have often wondered whether that drill really would work. Sounds like you've proven that it does.

Funny, my dad taught me the swing I still use back in the 1950's. He was a great believer in the Bobby Jones' style. When I see pictures of Mr. Jones' swing I immediately think of my dad. His mantra, the one I still hear in my head after all these years - "throw the club down the fairway".

Funny how great thoughts have a way of standing the test of time.

Its amazing how well you can swing if you dont let that little ball get in the way.

I played with a scratch golfer a few years ago. So, naturally being a high capper
I was trying to get some tips. He couldn't figure out how to help me. But, he did
tell me to throw the club at the ball. This tip seemed strange until I read this thread.
It still does not make sense, unless he meant throw the club towards the target rather than the ball.

haha holly crap i know tones of people this would work for

Its a great drill that serves a purpose but watch out. Look at all those people in the book doing that drill. Every one of their clubfaces is 90 degrees open in the impact area. Its that clubface as much as anything that doesnt allow people to do what those pictures show.

Bought the book, and am awaiting it with great anticipation.

So, I took an old club, steel shafted painted to look like hickory, outside and threw it down range.

It hooked. What do I do? Make a better shoulder turn? Build up the grip? :cheesy:

Love the concept!

[quote name='Kevin SHields' date='01 February 2010 - 11:19 PM' timestamp='1265084383' post='2221297']
Its a great drill that serves a purpose but watch out. Look at all those people in the book doing that drill. Every one of their clubfaces is 90 degrees open in the impact area. Its that clubface as much as anything that doesnt allow people to do what those pictures show.
[/quote]


The point of the drill is to open the eyes of the student to the fact that they can in fact move their body in a proper motion. So many high cappers have over-ridden their bodies natural movement with contrived and manipulated motions, that it no longer occurs to them that they can even do it properly, much less accomplish it.

He makes the same point you are making in the chapter the drill is contained in so your criticism is valid, but only if the person thinks this drill is the magic bullet. It is more of an epiphany type drill imo.

Oh and Gvogel....when you read the book you will realize the answer is throw more clubs, but without trying to manipulate it. Eventually your body will solve the problem without you interfering. Just keep focused on your goal and let your body make the adjustments on it's own.

[quote name='Rohlio' date='02 February 2010 - 07:12 PM' timestamp='1265155956' post='2223219']
[quote name='Kevin SHields' date='01 February 2010 - 11:19 PM' timestamp='1265084383' post='2221297']
Its a great drill that serves a purpose but watch out. Look at all those people in the book doing that drill. Every one of their clubfaces is 90 degrees open in the impact area. Its that clubface as much as anything that doesnt allow people to do what those pictures show.
[/quote]


The point of the drill is to open the eyes of the student to the fact that they can in fact move their body in a proper motion. So many high cappers have over-ridden their bodies natural movement with contrived and manipulated motions, that it no longer occurs to them that they can even do it properly, much less accomplish it.

He makes the same point you are making in the chapter the drill is contained in so your criticism is valid, but only if the person thinks this drill is the magic bullet. It is more of an epiphany type drill imo.

[b]Oh and Gvogel....when you read the book you will realize the answer is throw more clubs,[/b] but without trying to manipulate it. Eventually your body will solve the problem without you interfering. Just keep focused on your goal and let your body make the adjustments on it's own.
[/quote]

I'll be out throwing more tomorrow! Fortunately there is a foot of snow on the ground, so there is a soft landing.

[quote name='goldfinger007' timestamp='1264947046' post='2216367']
A good drill is to toss 4 and then hit 4 or toss 1 - hit 1. There is no such thing as [i]muscle memory[/i] as the only muscle in our body that has memory is our brain, but there is such a thing as motion memory and the act of doing something over and over creates a new behavior.
[/quote]

The brain is not a muscle. It is composed of neurons, connective tissue and vascular tissue. The nervous system activates the muscles and controls their actions.