Elbow to navel

Ditto - I was over looking something pretty important in 5 lessons. This post exposed it.

Can you explain a bit more what you mean by left elbow to navel?

link to the post?

*Puts left elbow on belly button and doesn't get it*

yep i'll explain-

so I read one of teeace's old posts, he talked about how if hands get to the left side of the torso, the right arm has to straiten because simple geometry, vs. if the hands stay on right side of torso right arm can remain bent.

So difference in pre vs post secret hogan, right arm is bent longer, left elbow slams into torso post impact. Well, if you let hands get to left side of torso (past shirt buttons, whatever), you cant get left arm connection post impact (just like tiger currently when he hits driver). Vs if hands never get past mid section, right arm remains bent longer, and left arm connection through impact (interestingly, slicefixer said he though hogans secret was the left arm connection IIRC).

Also, this totally fits to the bob hope demonstration, and the description of the elbows working towards the hips in the swing.

I contrast this to my typical "handle dragging" style. Lots of lag and shaft lean into and through impact. Very different from post secret hogan style.

So simple way to boil this down? for me, the feel is don't let left elbow get past navel. I haven't hit balls yet, but needless to say IM PUMPED to experiment, especially given the 3 day weekend .

Thanks Tyler,

Left arm connection seems to do so many great things. I've noticed that if I'm hitting "pushy" and "thin" its because I'm losing my left arm connection, because like gvogel mentioned, it seems to keep the left arm straight through impact and also helps to supinate left wrist.

NP, I'm hoping we can get some other people to comment.

BTW[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1358525546' post='6252983']
yep i'll explain-

so I read one of teeace's old posts, he talked about how if hands get to the left side of the torso, the right arm has to straiten because simple geometry, vs. if the hands stay on right side of torso right arm can remain bent.

So difference in pre vs post secret hogan, right arm is bent longer, left elbow slams into torso post impact. Well, if you let hands get to left side of torso (past shirt buttons, whatever), you cant get left arm connection post impact (just like tiger currently when he hits driver). Vs if hands never get past mid section, right arm remains bent longer, and left arm connection through impact (interestingly, slicefixer said he though hogans secret was the left arm connection IIRC).

Also, this totally fits to the bob hope demonstration, and the description of the elbows working towards the hips in the swing.

I contrast this to my typical "handle dragging" style. Lots of lag and shaft lean into and through impact. Very different from post secret hogan style.

So simple way to boil this down? for me, the feel is don't let left elbow get past navel. I haven't hit balls yet, but needless to say IM PUMPED to experiment, especially given the 3 day weekend .
[/quote]

BTW, IMO, I think this explains why Hogan has low left exit, bent right arm, limited shaft lean, and VERY high finish.

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1358527321' post='6253191']
BTW[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1358525546' post='6252983']
yep i'll explain-

so I read one of teeace's old posts, he talked about how if hands get to the left side of the torso, the right arm has to straiten because simple geometry, vs. if the hands stay on right side of torso right arm can remain bent.

So difference in pre vs post secret hogan, right arm is bent longer, left elbow slams into torso post impact. Well, if you let hands get to left side of torso (past shirt buttons, whatever), you cant get left arm connection post impact (just like tiger currently when he hits driver). Vs if hands never get past mid section, right arm remains bent longer, and left arm connection through impact (interestingly, slicefixer said he though hogans secret was the left arm connection IIRC).

Also, this totally fits to the bob hope demonstration, and the description of the elbows working towards the hips in the swing.

I contrast this to my typical "handle dragging" style. Lots of lag and shaft lean into and through impact. Very different from post secret hogan style.

So simple way to boil this down? for me, the feel is don't let left elbow get past navel. I haven't hit balls yet, but needless to say IM PUMPED to experiment, especially given the 3 day weekend .
[/quote]

BTW, IMO, I think this explains why Hogan has [u]low left [/u]exit, bent right arm, limited shaft lean, and VERY high finish.
[/quote]

low left...I cringe lol

As long as the hips keeps thrusting forward through and beyond impact to get maximum extension then I agree with all of that.

yes I say low and left as a look, which I think everyone has to agree with, but not as a feel, which is certainly debatable.

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1358525546' post='6252983']
...the feel is don't let left elbow get past navel.
[/quote]

This is a bad idea - instead of worrying about left elbow/naval, you should be trying to get both elbows past the ball as fast as possible with the pivot, like Hogan does here at :53

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1LM7h5hXIY

Mj, thanks. I'd love to hear why it's bad idea though. Certainly possible. I haven't tried it yet.

http://www.golfresearch.com/hoganpictures/frame_5.html

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1358534948' post='6254363']
Mj, thanks. I'd love to hear why it's bad idea though. Certainly possible. I haven't tried it yet.
[/quote]

Thinking about putting body parts in some relationship to each other on the DS, slows everything down, when you should be thinking about getting your arms through the ball as hard/fast as possible. If you do that with a good pivot and the arms synced up, the correct elbow/naval relative positions will happen.

As russc would say, put a credit card deep in the left armpit and don't let it drop until well after impact.

[quote name='Stryker' timestamp='1358536077' post='6254515']
As russc would say, put a credit card deep in the left armpit and don't let it drop until well after impact.
[/quote]

Yep, I think it's easier to do that if elbow doesn't get so far forward

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1358535723' post='6254459']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1358534948' post='6254363']
Mj, thanks. I'd love to hear why it's bad idea though. Certainly possible. I haven't tried it yet.
[/quote]

Thinking about putting body parts in some relationship to each other on the DS, slows everything down, when you should be thinking about getting your arms through the ball as hard/fast as possible. If you do that with a good pivot and the arms synced up, the correct elbow/naval relative positions will happen.
[/quote]

I think it'd be nice if it was that easy but I have pretty aggressive arms so I dont know if that will work

[quote name='Stryker' timestamp='1358536077' post='6254515']
As russc would say, put a credit card deep in the left armpit and don't let it drop until well after impact.
[/quote]

Well before impact at :20, Ben has already lost his American Express, Visa, and MC!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4DCZuAj5Mg

Are you sure that's not just the shadow of his arms creating the illusion of more space? Look at each frame leading up to :20.

yikes...I don't want to think of my arms or hands at all on the downswing...esp as they relate to my body.

Just turn it and bust it.

I think not letting your hands get past your navel is a great way to get stuck and hit it real in to out and get pushy.

hmm...

this could definitely be a bad idea. I'll report back, I'm still hopeful though.

Tembolo - I don't want to think about them either. I think I have some bad habits though so I might need to temporarily.

Your not going to get stuck if your arms are in front of you. I think this could be a good feel for someone who tends to let the arms outrace their body. Most people don't have the patience to allow their pivot to bring their arms in a position to hit.

[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1358539176' post='6254887']
Your not going to get stuck if your arms are in front of you. I think this could be a good feel for someone who tends to let the arms outrace their body. Most people don't have the patience to allow their pivot to bring their arms in a position to hit.
[/quote]

Yap, all depends on the chap's tendencies. If you have a good, hard pivot...I think holding your arms back is a bad idea. If you tend to be a flinger and have fast arms...then TD's idea might help to get the guy to be more rotational.

This is one of the key concepts in my model golf swing. I refer to it as "left arm to chest angle" or "arm lag" or "left arm to right of mid-line until after impact". It is really the key to understanding the often confusing topic of "connection". We need a better word than that, something that actually describes the key move, which does NOT require a lot of upper arm to pec pressure, but does require that the arm lag angle be maintained until after Impact. The Arm Swing Illusion makes seeing this very difficult for most folks.

[quote name='Stryker' timestamp='1358537702' post='6254717']
Are you sure that's not just the shadow of his arms creating the illusion of more space? Look at each frame leading up to :20.
[/quote]

Yes, I'm sure. His left arm is connected at the start, and then disconnects, creating a gap coming down.

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1358539432' post='6254903']
[quote name='dairic' timestamp='1358539176' post='6254887']
Your not going to get stuck if your arms are in front of you. I think this could be a good feel for someone who tends to let the arms outrace their body. Most people don't have the patience to allow their pivot to bring their arms in a position to hit.
[/quote]

Yap, all depends on the chap's tendencies. If you have a good, hard pivot...I think holding your arms back is a bad idea. If you tend to be a flinger and have fast arms...then TD's idea might help to get the guy to be more rotational.
[/quote]

Yes, I think I am more of the flinger unfortunately

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1358539617' post='6254925']
[quote name='Stryker' timestamp='1358537702' post='6254717']
Are you sure that's not just the shadow of his arms creating the illusion of more space? Look at each frame leading up to :20.
[/quote]

Yes, I'm sure. His left arm is connected at the start, and then disconnects, creating a gap coming down.
[/quote]

I think the connection is deep and way up there, connection doesnt mean "plastered" against the torso.

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1358541053' post='6255075']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1358539617' post='6254925']
[quote name='Stryker' timestamp='1358537702' post='6254717']
Are you sure that's not just the shadow of his arms creating the illusion of more space? Look at each frame leading up to :20.
[/quote]

Yes, I'm sure. His left arm is connected at the start, and then disconnects, creating a gap coming down.
[/quote]

I think the connection is deep and way up there, connection doesnt mean "plastered" against the torso.
[/quote]

I believe that is the way Geoff Jones describes the left arm connection as well.