2 degrees upright?

[quote name='aslan' timestamp='1280970769' post='2619186']
I had a unscheduled fitting at a Cleveland van visit to our club. I was told I should go plus a 1/4 and 2 degrees upright.

When I finally bought my club, the guy from GS told me, don't mask your problem. Go with a standard lie.

I did get +1/2 and choke to the end. From what I know, this raises it a degree upright. Should I get my clubs bent?

Will one or two degrees be a game changer? Am I over analyzing this stuff?



cheers!








[/quote]




The guy from GS is a moron. Everybody is different, hence different lie angles. Tour players play all types of lie angles and lengths. A 2* change can make a big difference in your ability to hit the ball flush. This is also a confidence booster.

[quote name='TCMP' timestamp='1280970929' post='2619191']
[quote name='aslan' timestamp='1280970769' post='2619186']
I had a unscheduled fitting at a Cleveland van visit to our club. I was told I should go plus a 1/4 and 2 degrees upright.

When I finally bought my club, the guy from GS told me, don't mask your problem. Go with a standard lie.

I did get +1/2 and choke to the end. From what I know, this raises it a degree upright. Should I get my clubs bent?

Will one or two degrees be a game changer? Am I over analyzing this stuff?



cheers!








[/quote]




The guy from GS is a moron. Everybody is different, hence different lie angles. Tour players play all types of lie angles and lengths. A 2* change can make a big difference in your ability to hit the ball flush. This is also a confidence booster.
[/quote]


Thx, TCMP. I thought so. I see this is a physical issue in my stance. I tend to naturally have the heel slightly off the ground. I never saw this as a swing flaw issue. You're right the guy at GS is a moron!

Fitting has become a given when getting new clubs, plus you shouldn't have to choke down on a club to get to the lie you need. I'd get fitted again as you mentioned the fitting had your shaft plus 1/4 and you got plus 1/2? The extrra lenth changes the original lie fitting. Good Luck, Mac

Hard to fathom that someone would tell you that it "mask" a problem! Get fit and go and I also believe after playing the new clubs a while check each club with the lie tape to be sure you need 2* on each club. ie: 1 up on some or 3 up on others, I've seen it happen. Good luck.

I'll just add something from my own experience. I'm no clubfitting expert, in fact, I don't even know half as much as most the people around here, but I will say that I used to play standard length and lie irons for about 15 years, because when I was a kid in the late '80s, that's just what you did. I always hit the ball fairly well, so I didn't think I needed a change.

Just for the heck of it, I went and got a fitting to see If the clubs I had been playing actually did fit me. I found out that I'm standard length but 3* flat. And for me, that made a huge difference. I making better contact, hitting the ball straighter and farther than I ever have. I can honestly say it took about 3-4 strokes off my game. I went from shooting 82-85 to shooting 77-80 in literally a couple weeks.

Maybe I have swing flaws, a bad swing, etc. All I know is that I've had the same swing for about 5-6 years. I"m not athletic enough nor have enough time to practice with work, etc.

I noticed a huge difference as I said, I can't promise you will see the same results, but I'm just sharing from what I've learned.

Mask your problem? Ridiculous!

Things like length and lie adjustments are not done to mask a problem, they are done to fit the individual. Thats what club fitting is all about.

Did the GS guy have a set of standard lie clubs he wanted to sell you?

I wouldnt trust those guys at the chain stores too much. I went to dicks with my victory red 56 and 60 degree wedges and had them do a lie and loft check and the guy really didnt know what he was doing. He bent my 56 to 59 degrees and he flattened out my 60 to 9 degrees flat. He also did my irons a couple of weeks prior and screwed them up too. It was only after hitting my lob wedge left all the time (I'm a lefty) that I went to Edwin Watts and had em checked again. Come to find out he had all my lies off and 3/4 of my lofts where wrong or inconsistant through out set. I should have known from the way his demenor was when I ask for him to check them. He acted like I was nuesence and bothering him from his soccer match that he was watching. My advice is if you use these chain stores take the name of the person who does the work so if you find a guy that knows what he's doing go back to him or report the lazy d-bag that hates his job. The guy at Edwin Watts was really great through, he took his time and knew what he was doing. With all that said is there a way that you could check this stuff at home with something or not.

The biggest change in my golf game was bending my clubs upright - completely changed how I took divots. Before then I was always hitting thin, never again.

The guy @ GS doesn't know what he's talking about. Get fitted.

I was fitted @ 2* upright by my clubfitter after I purchased my AP2's, and I've never hit the golf ball better in my life.

The guy at Golfsmith was probably trying to sell you what he had on the shelves.

But, assuming you hit the ball before you hit the turf, having a lie angle off by a degree or two won't be a game changer. It will mostly affect the alignment of your club in the short irons...in those clubs lie angle has the greatest impact on alignment.

The ball should be long gone before the club impacts the turf, so lie angle won't help or hurt you with that. But it will affect alignment.

The guy at Golfsmith was probably trying to sell you what he had on the shelves.

BINGO! I never go to any of the Big Box stores for questions, only to try/buy what I want. My research is done either here on GolfWrx, or at my home club. I don't wanna buy something from a guy who knows less than me about golf equipment.

Let this be a lesson to anyone who may read this who sells cars, golf equipment, or anything for that matter...know your $hi!.

An easy way to check would be to look at your divots. If they are deeper on the toe, then your clubs are too flat at impact. If they are heavy on the heel, then your clubs are too upright. As the above posters have stated, this is fitting a club to your swing, not masking a problem, especially since different manufactures have different ideas of what is standard for loft and lie.

[quote name='nybluebird' timestamp='1280982827' post='2619626']
The guy at Golfsmith was probably trying to sell you what he had on the shelves.

BINGO! I never go to any of the Big Box stores for questions, only to try/buy what I want. My research is done either here on GolfWrx, or at my home club. I don't wanna buy something from a guy who knows less than me about golf equipment.

Let this be a lesson to anyone who may read this who sells cars, golf equipment, or anything for that matter...know your $hi!.

[/quote]


great point. through my purchasing exp mainly going to GG, GS and Dick's, I knew more than 90 percent of the

salespeople.

[quote name='dalehead' timestamp='1280973044' post='2619290']
Mask your problem? Ridiculous!

Things like length and lie adjustments are not done to mask a problem, they are done to fit the individual. Thats what club fitting is all about.

Did the GS guy have a set of standard lie clubs he wanted to sell you?
[/quote]

I can't say, he was trying to sell off the rack, as I special ordered the + 1/2 length.

I may be wrong, and usually am, but... I think a couple of degrees change in lie will make a significant difference, it did for me anyways. My old set was a set of Mizzy's from college that I did not have fitted. I recently got fitted for S57's, and ended up going 2* upright. For the first month or two, I was hitting little draws, which I never did with my old irons. I possibly incorrectly attribute this to the change in lie.

By the way, someone mentioned that when they ground their club, the heel is off the ground... I don't think that necessarily indicates a fitting problem. That neglects a lot of things like shaft flex and where your hands are during an actual swing. For example, when I ground my original clubs, the toe is up off the ground. This would seem to indicate that I need a flatter lie, but after making swings on a lie board, the fitter recommended I go the opposite direction, 2* upright. Using your divot rather than grounding your club is good advice!

For my irons, I have 2 degrees up and +1/2 inch (which is prettyy much 3 degrees). That makes a HUGE difference for me. It definately helps take the right side of the course away, but it also allows me to actually attack the ball when I need to and lay off when I need to. Total confidence.

There is a caveat I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned. Regardless of what a static fitting tells you (hitting off a lie board), you should be fitted outdoors (called a dynamic fitting) so that ballflight can be taken into consideration. If you get fitted to 2* upright but your ballflight is consistently left with a standard lie, bending your clubs to 2* upright will only make you hit it further left. So get fitted outdoors and take ballflight into consideration.

[quote name='garobe' timestamp='1281017924' post='2620051']
I may be wrong, and usually am, but... I think a couple of degrees change in lie will make a significant difference, it did for me anyways. My old set was a set of Mizzy's from college that I did not have fitted. I recently got fitted for S57's, and ended up going 2* upright. For the first month or two, I was hitting little draws, which I never did with my old irons. I possibly incorrectly attribute this to the change in lie.

[b]By the way, someone mentioned that when they ground their club, the heel is off the ground... I don't think that necessarily indicates a fitting problem. That neglects a lot of things like shaft flex and where your hands are during an actual swing. For example, when I ground my original clubs, the toe is up off the ground. [/b] This would seem to indicate that I need a flatter lie, but after making swings on a lie board, the fitter recommended I go the opposite direction, 2* upright. Using your divot rather than grounding your club is good advice!
[/quote]


If you are fit correctly the toe should be off the ground. This applies to everyone due to the way the shaft will bend approaching impact. The toe will be down more at impact than at address. Anyone with the heel up at address needs a more upright lie.

[quote name='DrSchteeve' timestamp='1281023270' post='2620210']
There is a caveat I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned. Regardless of what a static fitting tells you (hitting off a lie board), you should be fitted outdoors (called a dynamic fitting) so that ballflight can be taken into consideration. If you get fitted to 2* upright but your ballflight is consistently left with a standard lie, bending your clubs to 2* upright will only make you hit it further left. So get fitted outdoors and take ballflight into consideration.
[/quote]

This is exactly why there are very few people that can do a true fitting. I know for me, my static fitting showed 1* upright and plus 1/2". Dynamic fitting has me in 9-LW that are 4* upright, 6-8 that are 3* upright, and 3-5 are 2* upright. Since the change I have never hit more shots online in my life. I had my dynamic fitting and then with my buddy that is a four time winner we went out systematically through my irons, and tweaked them until we got them right. It has made a world of difference for me. I went from hitting 9 greens a round (8.9) to hitting 12.8. Obviously this has done wonders for my scoring average and handicap going from a 3.2 down to a 0.4.

[quote name='DrSchteeve' timestamp='1281023270' post='2620210']
There is a caveat I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned. Regardless of what a static fitting tells you (hitting off a lie board), you should be fitted outdoors (called a dynamic fitting) so that ballflight can be taken into consideration. If you get fitted to 2* upright but your ballflight is consistently left with a standard lie, bending your clubs to 2* upright will only make you hit it further left. So get fitted outdoors and take ballflight into consideration.
[/quote]

+1 I hit the 09 burners at the pro shop outside and my ballflight was either straight or slight draw. After hitting off a lie board the fitter recommended 2* up. I said no thanks but i"ll take a standard set and send them in to TM later if i so choose. I hit the standard set great with a little draw from time to time. 2* up with that set would have snap hooks written all over it! The reason i was able to hit the set well is because they come standard with a lot of offset and they are already somewhat upright. Grab a standard 6 iron and hit it outside off grass if you can then make a decision about how upright or flat you want to go vs. what the lie board said and your ballflight.

Get Fit , If you see that 2 degrees upright is needed
during a dynamic fitting, ( Lie Board ) then trust it !!!

[quote name='garobe' timestamp='1281017924' post='2620051']
I may be wrong, and usually am, but... I think a couple of degrees change in lie will make a significant difference, it did for me anyways. My old set was a set of Mizzy's from college that I did not have fitted. I recently got fitted for S57's, and ended up going 2* upright. For the first month or two, I was hitting little draws, which I never did with my old irons. I possibly incorrectly attribute this to the change in lie.

By the way, someone mentioned that when they ground their club, the heel is off the ground... I don't think that necessarily indicates a fitting problem. That neglects a lot of things like shaft flex and where your hands are during an actual swing. For example, when I ground my original clubs, the toe is up off the ground. This would seem to indicate that I need a flatter lie, but after making swings on a lie board, the fitter recommended I go the opposite direction, 2* upright. Using your divot rather than grounding your club is good advice!
[/quote]

Good advice - thx. I read somewhere that you should look at your clubs, if the scratch marks are down the middle
you are ok. And, mine are down the middle. I'd hate to make a correction and start a new problem.

[quote name='aslan' timestamp='1280970769' post='2619186']
I had a unscheduled fitting at a Cleveland van visit to our club. I was told I should go plus a 1/4 and 2 degrees upright.

When I finally bought my club, the guy from GS told me, don't mask your problem. Go with a standard lie.

I did get +1/2 and choke to the end. From what I know, this raises it a degree upright. Should I get my clubs bent?

Will one or two degrees be a game changer? Am I over analyzing this stuff?



cheers!
[/quote]

So let me see if I have this right:

1. You get fit by someone who works for a major manufacturer and he recommends some specs.

2. For some unknown reason, you do not "trust" the recommendation and you go to a "chain store" where they pay their people minimum wage for a "critique" or whatever from a minimum wage person.

3. As a result of "conflicting" information from the two, you turn to a 3rd place, the Internet.

Have I got this right before I go on?

[quote name='accufitgolf' timestamp='1281052176' post='2621358']
[quote name='aslan' timestamp='1280970769' post='2619186']
I had a unscheduled fitting at a Cleveland van visit to our club. I was told I should go plus a 1/4 and 2 degrees upright.

When I finally bought my club, the guy from GS told me, don't mask your problem. Go with a standard lie.

I did get +1/2 and choke to the end. From what I know, this raises it a degree upright. Should I get my clubs bent?

Will one or two degrees be a game changer? Am I over analyzing this stuff?



cheers!
[/quote]

So let me see if I have this right:

1. You get fit by someone who works for a major manufacturer and he recommends some specs.

2. For some unknown reason, you do not "trust" the recommendation and you go to a "chain store" where they pay their people minimum wage for a "critique" or whatever from a minimum wage person.

3. As a result of "conflicting" information from the two, you turn to a 3rd place, the Internet.

Have I got this right before I go on?
[/quote]


i was thinking the same thing...
it doesnt get much better than fitting from a tour van. typically they dont sell clubs on the spot and have no reason to reccomend something not suited for you.
also, most tour van guys truly want their products to help you to the point of gaining brand loyalty.
they usually have your best interests in mind.

Lie angle is the most important factor for me - by far. I can hit my MP33s easier than my brothers X22s all because they fit.

1 degree of lie makes a huge difference in the feel and ballflight.

I am no pro, but I think it is worthwhile to tinker until you get the "ah-ha!"

[quote name='accufitgolf' timestamp='1281052176' post='2621358']
[quote name='aslan' timestamp='1280970769' post='2619186']
I had a unscheduled fitting at a Cleveland van visit to our club. I was told I should go plus a 1/4 and 2 degrees upright.

When I finally bought my club, the guy from GS told me, don't mask your problem. Go with a standard lie.

I did get +1/2 and choke to the end. From what I know, this raises it a degree upright. Should I get my clubs bent?

Will one or two degrees be a game changer? Am I over analyzing this stuff?



cheers!
[/quote]

So let me see if I have this right:

1. You get fit by someone who works for a major manufacturer and he recommends some specs.

2. For some unknown reason, you do not "trust" the recommendation and you go to a "chain store" where they pay their people minimum wage for a "critique" or whatever from a minimum wage person.

3. As a result of "conflicting" information from the two, you turn to a 3rd place, the Internet.

Have I got this right before I go on?
[/quote]


Thanks, Accufit.


1. Yes. Spent time with the Cleveland rep on a van day. But, it was not a scheduled fitting. It consisted
of hitting a few balls off the lie board with a std lie and the guy saying try this, +1/4, 2 degrees upright, I had two

successful draw shots and he said bingo that's what you need. So, yes. I ws a believer at the moment. But, was

suspicious the way, the 5 minute session unfolded.

2. Yes. Was pursuaded by the chain store guy, who kept on saying, "dude". My bad.

3. Yes. Here I am, the internet. One reason is, I have a trade in deal with Cleveland. So, I do plan on seeing

a pro, get advice/fitted before I make the trade in.

Have you been taking toe heavy divots? that generally indicates that you need to go 2* upright, right now I'm using 2.25* and 1" longer, I'm 6'4" so a standard lie and loft I have to bend down and it screws up my posture also I tend to slice the ball cause I cant release the club head properly. After getting fitted with EVERYTHING, I dropped from a 12 handicap to a 4. it's sorta funny actually =]

I used to believe there was one perfect lie angle for me. I also thought there was one perfect woman for me.

Wrong on both counts.

A lie board indoors makes an interesting starting point. But the lie angle you get from that fitting may not suit you.

It is a trial/error thing. Ball flight is the determining factor. You have to experiment, outdoors, with professional help if possible.

If your divot starts a bit on the toe, but you're fighting a hook, do you really want to go 2deg up to make your divot look right?

I had a fitting a little over a year ago and got told to go +1/2 and 2* upright. I like to stand over the ball more with almost straight legs so with standard lie I would hit toe first causing a slight fade no matter what I did. Now I hit the ball so straight and have had a lot more confidence since that fitting a year ago. You don't need to change your swing to fit the club. The club needs to fit your swing.