Where is Hogan aiming in this video clip?

Thoughts please- use the clock face to describe direction of target (see poll) - Thanks.

With a cupped wrist at the top, I'd say it's a fade with the ball starting out about 11:00.

[quote name='morganmonroe' timestamp='1290970341' post='2812918']
With a cupped wrist at the top, I'd say it's a fade with the ball starting out about 11:00.
[/quote]

So you think that the target is 12'oclock? but ball starting at 11 and playing fade?? Thanks for replying by the way. - good to get the thread going. Will post my thoughts later if we get a few more replies.

Yes, I think the target is noon. His aim-line is 11:00, clubface 11:15, ball lands @ 11:30, and rolls out to target @ 12:00.

I said 11 but wanted to say 11:45. Apparently his fade was minute (15 of them, that is).

Anyone change their mind when they see this clip...skip to 1:40 secs for slow mo...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn85aqJLoaw&feature=related

i'd say bottom left he is aiming where the ball starts with tons of parallax, a clock analogy might be confusing because the clock is on the floor(parallax) too and in the top right he is aimed closer to the mesh than it might first look.

Hogan had a peculiar stance.

His shoulders (and hips to a lesser degree) looked open. His right leg was dropped back (hence closed)...but somehow his knees looked NOT to be closed.

Am sure people will argue this....but that is how I see it, especially some of the Masters video tape footage that guy did with the home camera.

Lawson

[quote name='AlexCzervic' timestamp='1291827742' post='2829904']
[b]Thanks for all the parallax.[/b]
[/quote]

i'm presuming its one of the main reason golfbuldog1 began the thread, ..this is [b]roughly[/b] what i meant above.

[attachment=695990:strip01.jpg]

Think I was first to say 10. His back is to that direction at the top and also ball starts there. OK... it maght be 10.20

The closer a video is taken of the subject,the greater parallax will be magnified.That clip of Hogan looked very close so not so surprising.

[quote name='AlexCzervic' timestamp='1291827742' post='2829904']
Thanks for all the parallax.

Hogan hit a slider for his stock shot, not a fade.

This is a tired subject. If you have some other point to make then make it.

AC
[/quote]
Could you please define slider? If you are using a baseball analogy, any sideways movement of the ball from a right-handed pitcher would be from right to left for a slider. Are you saying that Mr. Hogan's stock shot was a draw? I am assuming also that you are referring to his post accident prime when he won most of his majors?

MH

Push fade is what he meant

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1291908821' post='2831702']
Push fade is what he meant
[/quote]

Would you please define 'push' fade as you understand it. How does this differ from a standard fade definition? Thanks, dts

Where's the DTL camera located at?

[quote name='downtoscratch' timestamp='1291912429' post='2831819']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1291908821' post='2831702']
Push fade is what he meant
[/quote]

Would you please define 'push' fade as you understand it. How does this differ from a standard fade definition? Thanks, dts
[/quote]


ball that drifts to the right is a fade...a reallly big one we call a slice...it's that simple! push, pull, or online fade will just tell us more about how it starts off...but it's moving to the right in flight.

Might be very small, but if it moves right, it's a fade.

".it's that simple! push, pull, or online fade will just tell us more about how it starts off...but it's moving to the right in flight."

So we're talking about Ben Hogan here and we are calling his shot a 'push' fade right. I guess by that definition he didn't hit it where he aimed at all!

Is it really that simple??? dts

[quote name='mikpga' timestamp='1291925660' post='2832163']
Where's the DTL camera located at?
[/quote]

not far off this.

[attachment=696613:cam2.jpg]

he is aiming at a point about 4 inches in front of the ball about an inch below the turf.

[quote name='downtoscratch' timestamp='1291912429' post='2831819']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1291908821' post='2831702']
Push fade is what he meant
[/quote]

Would you please define 'push' fade as you understand it. How does this differ from a standard fade definition? Thanks, dts
[/quote]
Ball started on or just right of his stance line and fell right towards the target. As opposed to a pull fade which would be across the body starting left of his stance and fading.

As a result he aimed just left of his target and hit a "slider" to the target. This is different than aiming at the target and pull fading it like Snead did when fading the ball many times.

Roger that............ thanks. dts

This is a great thread!

Do you think there's a benefit to hitting a pull fade vs. a push fade?

Is a push fade the opposite of a trap draw?

[quote name='ebk' timestamp='1398974702' post='9213137']
Is a push fade the opposite of a trap draw?
[/quote]

trap draw doesn't tell us where the ball started!

I think push fade is better, but only in terms of swing mechanics-wise. Means path is ok (DTL towards target), it's just that face is open a bit to path and target. Can be fixed by just more or harder release. So left side is better eliminated.

Pull fade means you're out to in. Could mean a lot of swing issues that went before. Changing could mean double crosses. Believe me, I know.

What did the closed stance help him achieve?

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1401825352' post='9423483']
What did the closed stance help him achieve?
[/quote]

Some talk about plane baseline etc...I think it's linked to his objective of limiting his hips actively in backswing. Sorta hips turned a bit already for backswing, so even if he limited hip turn, it doesn't bother his shoulder turn much. I think this is why people thought Hogan isn't restricting his hips in video even if he said so in five lessons.

^^^^ he came from an era where hip turn was huge i.e watching guys like bobby jones , vs modern players hogan has a huge hip turn

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1402136264' post='9447749']
^^^^ he came from an era where hip turn was huge i.e watching guys like bobby jones , vs modern players hogan has a huge hip turn
[/quote]

Even though he had a huge hip turn...I wonder if his intent was to limit it. The closed stance certainly would help him achieve a bigger one.

Yes his intention was to limit it via the right knee etc because his hip turn was enormous but that isn't going to help the limacuckoos swing