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New and Improved Shaft Chart

 smoky25 ·  
smoky25smoky25 Members  1063WRX Points: 143Posts: 1,063 Platinum Tees
Joined:  in WRX Club Techs #1
<div class="IPBDescription">from Howard Jones</div>Howard Jones asked me to help him post his new and improved shaft chart. Enjoy. Click the chart to enlarge.
Posted:
«13456732
32

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  • nparknpark You're Welcome Members  685WRX Points: 0Posts: 685
    Joined:  edited Jul 18, 2011 #2
    wow, I feel like I should buy you and Howard a beer for this <img src='http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/drinks.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':drinks:' /><br />
    <br />
    <br />
    <br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Thanks
    Posted:
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  • smoky25smoky25 Members  1063WRX Points: 143Posts: 1,063 Platinum Tees
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    Howard did all the work. I'm just the messenger. But since you're offering, I'll take a Bud Lite.
    Posted:
  • Aces-6Aces-6 Marshals, BST Volunteer Mods  3052WRX Points: 141Posts: 3,052 Marshals
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    We really need to have this pinned!!
    Posted:
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  • smoky25smoky25 Members  1063WRX Points: 143Posts: 1,063 Platinum Tees
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    We really need to have this pinned!!
    <br />
    <br />
    ++++1
    Posted:
  • minhjnminhjn Members  3227WRX Points: 70Posts: 3,227 Titanium Tees
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    Howard Jones is a gentleman and a scholar
    Posted:
  • OIBriEnOIBriEn Members  35WRX Points: 0Posts: 35
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    smoky25 wrote:
    <br />
    Howard did all the work. I'm just the messenger. But since you're offering, I'll take a Bud Lite.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    +1 on the BL
    Posted:
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  • mesegrnmesegrn mesegrn GeorgiaMembers  1158WRX Points: 133Posts: 1,158 Platinum Tees
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    Thanks very much!!!
    Posted:
  • DynoDyno Charter Members  1902WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,902
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    Nice chart...more accurate than most if not all!
    Posted:
  • corkycorky Members  2858WRX Points: 57Posts: 2,858 Titanium Tees
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    didn't like his last album though...." back in the eighties
    Posted:
  • PKMillerJrPKMillerJr Members  841WRX Points: 0Posts: 841
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    smoky25 wrote:
    <br />
    Howard Jones asked me to help him post his new and improved shaft chart. Enjoy. Click the chart to enlarge.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I do not understand what the difference is in the DGX100's that you have different frequency listings.
    Posted:
  • mbbrewermbbrewer Members  1117WRX Points: 220Posts: 1,117 Platinum Tees
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    PKMillerJr wrote:
    <br />
    smoky25 wrote:
    <br />
    Howard Jones asked me to help him post his new and improved shaft chart. Enjoy. Click the chart to enlarge.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I do not understand what the difference is in the DGX100's that you have different frequency listings.<br />
    <br />
    Shows the difference between soft-stepping and hard-stepping.
    Posted:
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  • Howard_JonesHoward_Jones Members  11600WRX Points: 2,281Posts: 11,600 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jul 20, 2011 #13
    mbbrewer is right, it show different options for install, and what FCM values those gives.<br />
    <br />
    X-100 strait in, will be 6.8, and so is KBS Tour S Hard stepped 1x (hs)<br />
    X-100 soft stepped once (ss) is 6.5, and so is PX 6.0 strait in, and KBS Tour S+ strait in, and C Taper stiff hard stepped once,<br />
    X-100 soft stepped twice (ssx2) is 6.2 , so is PX 6.5 Soft stepped 2x (ssx2), so is KBS C Taper stiff strait in, and so is KBS Tour S+ soft stepped 1x (ss)<br />
    <br />
    You will also find the weight uncut for the shaft as Taper tip<br />
    <br />
    If fitting shows that a certain cpm value will fit a specific player, 1 cpm up or down does not matter, so if target cpm is 6.8 like x-100 strait in, you have this options on THIS chart.<br />
    <br />
    132 Gram - Tour X 7 ssx2 = 6.9 FCM<br />
    130 Gram - PX 7.0 SSx2 = 6.7 FCM<br />
    130 Gram - KBS Tour X = 6.7 FCM<br />
    130 Gram - X-100 = 6.8 FCM<br />
    125 Gram - KBS c-Taper S+ = 6.7 FCM<br />
    125 Gram - KBS Tour HS = 6.8 FCM<br />
    120 Gram - PX 6.0 Hs = 6.9 FCM<br />
    108 Gram - X-100 Super Light = 6.8<br />
    <br />
    This chart DOES NOT say that this shafts will feel the same, or perform as the same. <br />
    Its only a chart to fit the need for e certain Cpm strength due to club speed and parameters from the players swing who adjust from club speed.
    Posted:

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  • kylevankylevan Members  109WRX Points: 55Posts: 109 Fairways
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    Very helpful...Should be pinned, can save lots of time/searches...Thanks!
    Posted:
  • AsleepAsleep Marshals  9056WRX Points: 6Posts: 9,056 Marshals
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    Chart says soft-stepping Project X is the equivalent of one full flex.
    Posted:
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  • PKMillerJrPKMillerJr Members  841WRX Points: 0Posts: 841
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    mbbrewer wrote:
    <br />
    PKMillerJr wrote:
    <br />
    smoky25 wrote:
    <br />
    Howard Jones asked me to help him post his new and improved shaft chart. Enjoy. Click the chart to enlarge.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I do not understand what the difference is in the DGX100's that you have different frequency listings.<br />
    <br />
    Shows the difference between soft-stepping and hard-stepping.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Thanks!
    Posted:
  • TCNorthstarsTCNorthstars Members  171WRX Points: 0Posts: 171
    Joined:  #17
    Any idea where black gold regular flex would fit on that chart?
    Posted:
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  • tElihutElihu Members  1131WRX Points: 60Posts: 1,131 Platinum Tees
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    Excellent info!!!<br />
    <br />
    It does raise the question as to what size of a frequency window most players have (or can tell a difference with). I'm wondering if I'll notice a difference if I change my FCM about, say, .2 FCM. Or do I need to make a more drastic change to see a difference.
    Posted:
  • oldhamer25oldhamer25 Members  1414WRX Points: 110Posts: 1,414 Platinum Tees
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    Great information and agree with others this should be pinned so it is easier to find.
    Posted:
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  • gqjeffgqjeff Members  1614WRX Points: 58Posts: 1,614 Platinum Tees
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    playing 7.5 FCM on my x7's. Played a buddies a few weeks back and he was HS x7 and they still felt amazing..
    Posted:
  • knickerbockerknickerbocker Pipe Dreamer Members  3472WRX Points: 209Handicap: 3.8Posts: 3,472 Titanium Tees
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    This is very helpful, but I also think it ignores that some of these shafts are stiffer in different sections of the shaft which makes them play differently. I personally feel DGS300 Taper Tip plays stiffer than PX5.5 - this chart would say the opposite.
    Posted:
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  • thedillzthedillz Members  281WRX Points: 0Posts: 281
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    Great info. Thanks for your work!
    Posted:
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  • Howard_JonesHoward_Jones Members  11600WRX Points: 2,281Posts: 11,600 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jul 20, 2011 #23
    <br />
    This is very helpful, but I also think it ignores that some of these shafts are stiffer in different sections of the shaft which makes them play differently. I personally feel DGS300 Taper Tip plays stiffer than PX5.5 - this chart would say the opposite.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I'm afraid you misunderstand the purpose of the chart.Its got nothing to do with feel or ball curves, or spin and launch values for that matter.<br />
    <br />
    A certain club speed makes a need for a specific over all flex, but this value is changes by the amount of cpm's necessary due to the players way to swing his clubs.<br />
    I'm using high speed camera, and playback to see what happens during transition, swing time, downswing, and release of the club. The players weight and strength, and preference for feel (soft or stiff) is also parameters for correction. The sum you end up with is used to identify shaft who meets this needs.<br />
    <br />
    Then you have to go to real life testing, and try the combo Head/Shaft, and measure with a trackman to see if you got where you wanted to, and also take the players feedback for feel and wish for ball curve into consideration. The chart is just for navigating in flex and shaft weight, but nothing of the other parameters needed to find the right shaft.
    Posted:

    PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME PMs ON CLUB TECH ISSUES - ASK PUBLIC IN THE FORUM.

    Unless you are a former Customer or someone i already have a PM dialog with, i want reply to tech questions on PMs.

  • gqjeffgqjeff Members  1614WRX Points: 58Posts: 1,614 Platinum Tees
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    lucky guys in Europe getting fit by you Mr Jones..
    Posted:
  • Howard_JonesHoward_Jones Members  11600WRX Points: 2,281Posts: 11,600 Titanium Tees
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    tElihu wrote:
    <br />
    Excellent info!!!<br />
    <br />
    It does raise the question as to what size of a frequency window most players have (or can tell a difference with). I'm wondering if I'll notice a difference if I change my FCM about, say, .2 FCM. Or do I need to make a more drastic change to see a difference.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    If you can feel the difference between a set strait in, VS soft stepped once or hard stepped once, you can feel the difference made from 3 or 4 cpm's<br />
    But like i posted in another answer, this chart is NOT for comparing feel of flex.<br />
    - Its for comparing actual over all flex, but feel both might be and will be different because this shafts is made with different bend points , there are stepped and non stepped shafts, and so on.<br />
    Ball curves and spin values will also be different, so its only to meet the need for a certain over all flex and weight it can be used.
    Posted:

    PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME PMs ON CLUB TECH ISSUES - ASK PUBLIC IN THE FORUM.

    Unless you are a former Customer or someone i already have a PM dialog with, i want reply to tech questions on PMs.

  • tElihutElihu Members  1131WRX Points: 60Posts: 1,131 Platinum Tees
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    Thanks for the reply and the data.<br />
    <br />
    My question was a selfish one in that I"m currently using X100s and am considering soft-stepping them.
    Posted:
  • Howard_JonesHoward_Jones Members  11600WRX Points: 2,281Posts: 11,600 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jul 21, 2011 #27
    tElihu wrote:
    <br />
    Thanks for the reply and the data.<br />
    <br />
    My question was a selfish one in that I"m currently using X100s and am considering soft-stepping them.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    If you change frequency on the same shaft by tip trim, softstepping, hardstepping or swingweight change,(not the grip trick as swingweight change)<br />
    a change of 1 cpm gives a change of 1 us feet on apex<br />
    Sofstepping once (Dynamic Gold), reduces cpm by 3, so you should get 1 yard higher apex.
    Posted:

    PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME PMs ON CLUB TECH ISSUES - ASK PUBLIC IN THE FORUM.

    Unless you are a former Customer or someone i already have a PM dialog with, i want reply to tech questions on PMs.

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  • Tbone1976Tbone1976 Members  144WRX Points: 45Handicap: 8Posts: 144 Fairways
    Joined:  edited Jul 21, 2011 #28
    Howard,<br />
    <br />
    I currently play the PX 5.5 straight in. Although I enjoy them, I am wondering if my ball flight is creeping up on the "high" side. Having said that, your chart shows the C-Taper R+ straight in at a FCM of 5.7. Could this .2 difference with equal shaft weight and a little different shaft design characteristics give me just that little bit of lower flight?<br />
    <br />
    Thanks
    Posted:
  • nparknpark You're Welcome Members  685WRX Points: 0Posts: 685
    Joined:  #29
    Wow, I have never heard it broken down that much; 1 foot higher/lower per CPM change given the same shaft. Simply amazing info, wish I had the $$$ to go to Europe to get properly fit...oh yeah and play some of those wonderful courses. :-)
    Posted:
  • ucdan5ucdan5 Members  718WRX Points: 40Posts: 718 Golden Tee
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    As someone else mentioned, where would TT Black Golds fall on this chart? I have a set of Regular Flex since I hear they play 1/2 flex stiffer and considering Hard Stepping them to play closer to Stiff but a little below. Thanks in advance and great job on the chart! I see 972 posts a day asking about it, and I was one of them.
    Posted:
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  • 3step3step Members  693WRX Points: 55Posts: 693 Golden Tee
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    <br />
    <br />
    This is very helpful, but I also think it ignores that some of these shafts are stiffer in different sections of the shaft which makes them play differently. I personally feel DGS300 Taper Tip plays stiffer than PX5.5 - this chart would say the opposite.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I'm afraid you misunderstand the purpose of the chart.Its got nothing to do with feel or ball curves, or spin and launch values for that matter.<br />
    <br />
    A certain club speed makes a need for a specific over all flex, but this value is changes by the amount of cpm's necessary due to the players way to swing his clubs.<br />
    I'm using high speed camera, and playback to see what happens during transition, swing time, downswing, and release of the club. The players weight and strength, and preference for feel (soft or stiff) is also parameters for correction. The sum you end up with is used to identify shaft who meets this needs.<br />
    <br />
    Then you have to go to real life testing, and try the combo Head/Shaft, and measure with a trackman to see if you got where you wanted to, and also take the players feedback for feel and wish for ball curve into consideration. The chart is just for navigating in flex and shaft weight, but nothing of the other parameters needed to find the right shaft.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    This kind of chart doesn't make sense to me either.<br />
    <br />
    You can absolutely have two shafts with the SAME CPM butt frequency reading, that are widely DIFFERENT flexes, and most every golfer, upon hitting the two shaft varieties will be able to feel the DIFFERENT flex. <br />
    <br />
    It doesn't make sense that so many clubmakers cling to this single criteria of quantifying a shaft, when butt frequency is just that- only one part of the overall shaft flex.<br />
    <br />
    I know that EI charts are difficult to understand and relate to, but this analysis tells the whole movie, instead of a single snapshot of a butt frequency reading.<br />
    <br />
    3 step
    Posted:
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