New and Improved Shaft Chart

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  • mcc0819mcc0819 Members  752WRX Points: 133Posts: 752 Golden Tee
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    On -, @Howard Jones said:

    On -, @mcc0819 said:

    Any info on the Nippon Modus line? Specifically would like to see how the Modus 120 x and 130 x compare to the likes of PX 6.5 and X100s.

    https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/comment/18898904#Comment_18898904

    Howard, thank you! I can't seem to fully comprehend that chart and numbers. Can you briefly elaborate?

    Posted:
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  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers  25069WRX Points: 1,637Posts: 25,069 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @mcc0819 said:

    On -, @Howard Jones said:

    On -, @mcc0819 said:

    Any info on the Nippon Modus line? Specifically would like to see how the Modus 120 x and 130 x compare to the likes of PX 6.5 and X100s.

    https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/comment/18898904#Comment_18898904

    Howard, thank you! I can't seem to fully comprehend that chart and numbers. Can you briefly elaborate?

    This should help you understand the chart.
    http://www.golfwrx.com/73753/wishon-shaft-frequency-can-be-misleading/

    Posted:
  • Hot Rod 71Hot Rod 71 #TheWRX ClubWRX, BST Volunteer Mods  8975WRX Points: 329Handicap: lowPosts: 8,975 ClubWRX
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    On -, @Stuart_G said:

    On -, @mcc0819 said:

    On -, @Howard Jones said:

    On -, @mcc0819 said:

    Any info on the Nippon Modus line? Specifically would like to see how the Modus 120 x and 130 x compare to the likes of PX 6.5 and X100s.

    https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/comment/18898904#Comment_18898904

    Howard, thank you! I can't seem to fully comprehend that chart and numbers. Can you briefly elaborate?

    This should help you understand the chart.
    http://www.golfwrx.com/73753/wishon-shaft-frequency-can-be-misleading/

    Great article!

    Posted:
    PING G400 LST 9* - Graphite Design Tour AD TP 6X
    Callaway Epic 15* - Diamana S+ 70X
    Titleist 718 T-MB 3 iron DG S300
    PXG 0311T 4-P - DGTI AMT S400
    Titleist SM7 50, 56, 60 - DGTI S400
    Scotty Cameron Studio Custom Newport 2
    Snell Black
  • buckets on bucketsbuckets on buckets Members  78WRX Points: 27Handicap: 2Posts: 78 Fairways
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    Appreciate the work here!

    Posted:
  • rfarrell51rfarrell51 Members  1349WRX Points: 123Posts: 1,349 Platinum Tees
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    Any frequency comparisons for Recoil graphite? Is it that much different to not include? Looking at 780 F4 or 950 F4

    Posted:
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  • Howard_JonesHoward_Jones Members  11058WRX Points: 1,945Posts: 11,058 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @rfarrell51 said:

    Any frequency comparisons for Recoil graphite? Is it that much different to not include? Looking at 780 F4 or 950 F4

    its not a good way to compare shafts, thats why there is no update of the chart, but since you ask, 780 ES SMAC F4 as #5 iron has a butt CPM of 304. (i dont have any specs on 950 F4)

    KBS TOUR / R flex 110 grams Tapers has 306 CPM as reference, but again, this is NOT a good way to compare different shafts.

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  • mesegrnmesegrn mesegrn GeorgiaMembers  1158WRX Points: 133Posts: 1,158 Platinum Tees
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    Howard or Stuart, is it possible to have a 7 iron swing of 88mph and feel comfortable hitting a R400 iron shaft? I built a 7 iron at 1/2 inch over with a Dynamic Gold Lite R400 and it feels great. I recently had a lesson and to work on some hand flip issues and this combination helps me feel like I'm not swinging out of my shoes to get the club through the ball. Is it possible this could work? I was hitting into a net, so I didn't see the ball flight except on a computer screen.

    Posted:
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers  25069WRX Points: 1,637Posts: 25,069 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jun 5, 2019 #819

    On -, @mesegrn said:

    Howard or Stuart, is it possible to have a 7 iron swing of 88mph and feel comfortable hitting a R400 iron shaft? I built a 7 iron at 1/2 inch over with a Dynamic Gold Lite R400 and it feels great. I recently had a lesson and to work on some hand flip issues and this combination helps me feel like I'm not swinging out of my shoes to get the club through the ball. Is it possible this could work? I was hitting into a net, so I didn't see the ball flight except on a computer screen.

    Certainly, very possible. Lots of different ways that the feels from the shaft can influence the swing - either for better or worse. The actual results are the only thing that really matters. Just be aware that for such "feel" based improvements, it is possible for old habits to reassert themselves as you get more used to the new feel - but not always - you just never know.

    What shaft are you coming from?

    Posted:
  • mesegrnmesegrn mesegrn GeorgiaMembers  1158WRX Points: 133Posts: 1,158 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Jun 5, 2019 #820

    I'm coming from a Project X 5.5 at standard length. The release just feels differently in my hands versus the Dynamic Gold.

    Posted:
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers  25069WRX Points: 1,637Posts: 25,069 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @mesegrn said:

    I'm coming from a Project X 5.5 at standard length. The release just feels differently in my hands versus the Dynamic Gold.

    The only thing I might suggest (if you haven't already) is play around with different weights as well as flexes. Shaft weight (and swing weight as well) can potentially have an influence on the general rhythm and tempo and release timing. Usually more so than flex.

    Posted:
  • mesegrnmesegrn mesegrn GeorgiaMembers  1158WRX Points: 133Posts: 1,158 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Jun 5, 2019 #822

    I’m trying to stay in the 115 weight range in order to go the +1/2 inch. I think a standard 130 weight would be to heavy at that length don’t you? I have basic club building skills so trying to make it easier on myself as well I guess. Like you said, I’ll play around with some variations to see what feels and releases better.

    Posted:
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  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers  25069WRX Points: 1,637Posts: 25,069 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @mesegrn said:

    I’m trying to stay in the 115 weight range in order to go the +1/2 inch. I think a standard 130 weight would be to heavy at that length don’t you? I have basic club building skills so trying to make it easier on myself as well I guess. Like you said, I’ll play around with some variations to see what feels and releases better.

    Are you worried about swing weight? That's the only real potential correlation between shaft weight and length - but even then, most shafts are designed to swing weight similarly despite the change in weight. That general rule of thumb on how swing weight changes based on shaft weight changes is really completely useless and should be ignored.

    Posted:
  • mesegrnmesegrn mesegrn GeorgiaMembers  1158WRX Points: 133Posts: 1,158 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Jun 5, 2019 #824

    I have a tendency to get quick with my tempo, maybe the extra weight of a 130 gram shaft will help smooth me out. I guess I’ve used swing weight for so long, it’s hard to ignore it.

    Posted:
    Post edited by mesegrn on
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers  25069WRX Points: 1,637Posts: 25,069 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @mesegrn said:

    I have a tendency to get quick with my tempo, maybe the extra weight of a 130 gram shaft will help smooth me out. I guess I’ve used swing weight for so long, it’s hard to ignore it.

    I wasn't suggesting you ignore it. Just don't make any assumptions about what it might be based on the shaft weight.

    Posted:
  • Always_roughAlways_rough Members  487WRX Points: 117Posts: 487 Greens
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    I play KBS C-Tapers S+ in my irons. Over the past year, work really picked up, and the amount of golfing I've done has been almost 0. Things have finally cooled down, but I can't hit my irons to save my life anymore. When I was playing often and hitting the range, I had no problem swingin the S+ C-Tapers. Now I feel like because I've lost a bit of swing speed, they aren't the shaft for me. Should I just drop down to the S C-Taper or should I try out the C-Taper lite X? I play in windy conditions almost 90% of the time (20-30mph winds) and like to keep the ball low. If I had anywhere near my to test the two, I would, but because of where I live, I don't. Any advice is greatly appreciated as always.

    Posted:
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  • alexgolfsalexgolfs Members  98WRX Points: 31Handicap: 1Posts: 98 Fairways
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    This is very informative! Thank you

    Posted:
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  • Howard_JonesHoward_Jones Members  11058WRX Points: 1,945Posts: 11,058 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @Always_rough said:

    I play KBS C-Tapers S+ in my irons. Over the past year, work really picked up, and the amount of golfing I've done has been almost 0. Things have finally cooled down, but I can't hit my irons to save my life anymore. When I was playing often and hitting the range, I had no problem swingin the S+ C-Tapers. Now I feel like because I've lost a bit of swing speed, they aren't the shaft for me. Should I just drop down to the S C-Taper or should I try out the C-Taper lite X? I play in windy conditions almost 90% of the time (20-30mph winds) and like to keep the ball low. If I had anywhere near my to test the two, I would, but because of where I live, I don't. Any advice is greatly appreciated as always.

    This tread is not a good one for questions like that, and your own guess-works is just as good as anyone elses, but if you do your own club making, consider soft stepping the set you have 2x.....All shafts lighter and softer with a low launch profile would fit the bill to answer your question, but how much lighter and softer, only testing can tell.

    or maybe the short end is "ok"? but the mid and long the issue?. Then look into 3/8" sets, its tons of treads about them

    Posted:

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  • Jtangm04Jtangm04 Members  10WRX Points: 15Handicap: 15Posts: 10 Bunkers
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    Great information

    Posted:
  • QuigleyDUQuigleyDU Members  10334WRX Points: 3,534Handicap: 8Posts: 10,334 Titanium Tees
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    What is the best X still composite iron shaft? I am very unfamiliar. Is it even worth looking into?

    Posted:
    Driver: Taylormade SIM 10.5 KBS TD 70TX
    3 iron Cobra King Utility Aldila Rouge 90 X flex
    4-PW Cobra king forged CB KBS $ Taper 130 X flex
    WEDGES; CLEVELAND RTX4: 49 and 64
    WEDGES: Titleist SM7 54 and 60 KBS tour custom matte black shafts.
    PUTTER; Kronos release long neck
    BALL; 2019 ProV1 yellow/Snell MTB-X yellow
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers  25069WRX Points: 1,637Posts: 25,069 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @QuigleyDU said:

    What is the best X still composite iron shaft? I am very unfamiliar. Is it even worth looking into?

    There is no objective way to evaluate what is 'best'. The answer can be different for everyone. There are, however quite a lot of very good quality composite iron shafts to choose from with a wide range of both weights and stiffness profiles.

    Posted:
  • QuigleyDUQuigleyDU Members  10334WRX Points: 3,534Handicap: 8Posts: 10,334 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @Stuart_G said:

    On -, @QuigleyDU said:

    What is the best X still composite iron shaft? I am very unfamiliar. Is it even worth looking into?

    There is no objective way to evaluate what is 'best'. The answer can be different for everyone. There are, however quite a lot of very good quality composite iron shafts to choose from with a wide range of both weights and stiffness profiles.

    Fair enough, I guess I was not specific enough. I am wondering what "good" players with faster swings speeds tend to go to for a composite shaft. There are a number of companies with shafts, but they are not readily available to try.

    Posted:
    Driver: Taylormade SIM 10.5 KBS TD 70TX
    3 iron Cobra King Utility Aldila Rouge 90 X flex
    4-PW Cobra king forged CB KBS $ Taper 130 X flex
    WEDGES; CLEVELAND RTX4: 49 and 64
    WEDGES: Titleist SM7 54 and 60 KBS tour custom matte black shafts.
    PUTTER; Kronos release long neck
    BALL; 2019 ProV1 yellow/Snell MTB-X yellow
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  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers  25069WRX Points: 1,637Posts: 25,069 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Sep 10, 2019 #833

    On -, @QuigleyDU said:

    On -, @Stuart_G said:

    On -, @QuigleyDU said:

    What is the best X still composite iron shaft? I am very unfamiliar. Is it even worth looking into?

    There is no objective way to evaluate what is 'best'. The answer can be different for everyone. There are, however quite a lot of very good quality composite iron shafts to choose from with a wide range of both weights and stiffness profiles.

    Fair enough, I guess I was not specific enough. I am wondering what "good" players with faster swings speeds tend to go to for a composite shaft. There are a number of companies with shafts, but they are not readily available to try.

    The more popular options, at least for the stronger members needing heavier weight shafts (90 - 125 gm range), tend to be the UST Recoil's (a few different models to choose from) and the Aerotech Steelfibers. They can even sometimes be found in the OEM fitting carts a retail outlets or with demo-day reps to give you the opportunity to try them out first.

    Other honorable mentions can be found in this thread:
    https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1790414/graphite-shafts-for-players-irons

    Posted:
  • NRHutchisonNRHutchison Members  3WRX Points: 5Handicap: 4Posts: 3 Starters
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    Great, informative thread. Thanks for the information.

    Posted:
  • fullbodyfixfullbodyfix SF, CAMembers  100WRX Points: 37Handicap: 10Posts: 100 Fairways
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    Wow super helpful thread!

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  • NegncicNegncic Members  104WRX Points: 68Posts: 104 Fairways
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    Wow. Great thread. I currently play AMT tour white x-100’s. How do the AMT tour white’s compare to DG? I like the shafts but do not love them. Occasionally I tend to overswing the club and I think it’s due to the weight and stiffness of the shaft. I also tend to balloon some shots in the wind. I was thinking of soft stepping the AMT’s but after reading this thread, I am thinking of trying out the PX 6.0’s. Is this a logical starting point?

    Thank you

    Posted:
  • Howard_JonesHoward_Jones Members  11058WRX Points: 1,945Posts: 11,058 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @Negncic said:

    Wow. Great thread. I currently play AMT tour white x-100’s. How do the AMT tour white’s compare to DG? I like the shafts but do not love them. Occasionally I tend to over swing the club and I think it’s due to the weight and stiffness of the shaft. I also tend to balloon some shots in the wind. I was thinking of soft stepping the AMT’s but after reading this thread, I am thinking of trying out the PX 6.0’s. Is this a logical starting point?

    Thank you

    AMT should be like the classic DG for flex, but weight is a more important parameter.
    Over-swinging COULD BE lack of shaft weight, and it should be easy to figure out, simply by adding lead tape "head to grip direction" with the difference there is UP to your #9 iron.
    Start by finding the middle of the shaft, and set a mark on the middle of the lead tape, and align those marks so the lead tape is distributed from the middle of the shaft and bot ways against head and grip

    If shaft weight is the issue, going PX 6.0 want solve it. PX 6.0 is 120 grams uncut and equal to your #5 iron, so you might use that one for the "lead tape test" and add 10 grams to make the #5 iron shaft equal in weight to your #9. Head weight is also part of it all, so you have to ask yourself, are you able to FEEL both the shaft and the head at the top of the swing? is one of them is to dominant, its not good.
    Shaft weight is what gives us feed back of the shafts angle at the top, so if we cant feel the shaft, only the head or mostly the head, over swinging is hard to prevent.

    Try to add lead tape to your #5 iron SHAFT, and FEEL the difference during transition and if that can solve your over swinging.
    Since total weight/shaft weight also makes a difference for our access to the ball, wait until that issue is solved or cleared out before you judge ball flight, who might be solved by stronger lofts if its still present.

    PS! PX 6.0 is STIFFER than DG S300 or AMT White S300, so if you feel that flex is to stiff now, there is 2 reasons for why PX 6.0 is the wrong direction (both weight and flex)

    Posted:

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  • NegncicNegncic Members  104WRX Points: 68Posts: 104 Fairways
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    On -, @Howard Jones said:

    On -, @Negncic said:

    Wow. Great thread. I currently play AMT tour white x-100’s. How do the AMT tour white’s compare to DG? I like the shafts but do not love them. Occasionally I tend to over swing the club and I think it’s due to the weight and stiffness of the shaft. I also tend to balloon some shots in the wind. I was thinking of soft stepping the AMT’s but after reading this thread, I am thinking of trying out the PX 6.0’s. Is this a logical starting point?

    Thank you

    AMT should be like the classic DG for flex, but weight is a more important parameter.
    Over-swinging COULD BE lack of shaft weight, and it should be easy to figure out, simply by adding lead tape "head to grip direction" with the difference there is UP to your #9 iron.
    Start by finding the middle of the shaft, and set a mark on the middle of the lead tape, and align those marks so the lead tape is distributed from the middle of the shaft and bot ways against head and grip

    If shaft weight is the issue, going PX 6.0 want solve it. PX 6.0 is 120 grams uncut and equal to your #5 iron, so you might use that one for the "lead tape test" and add 10 grams to make the #5 iron shaft equal in weight to your #9. Head weight is also part of it all, so you have to ask yourself, are you able to FEEL both the shaft and the head at the top of the swing? is one of them is to dominant, its not good.
    Shaft weight is what gives us feed back of the shafts angle at the top, so if we cant feel the shaft, only the head or mostly the head, over swinging is hard to prevent.

    Try to add lead tape to your #5 iron SHAFT, and FEEL the difference during transition and if that can solve your over swinging.
    Since total weight/shaft weight also makes a difference for our access to the ball, wait until that issue is solved or cleared out before you judge ball flight, who might be solved by stronger lofts if its still present.

    PS! PX 6.0 is STIFFER than DG S300 or AMT White S300, so if you feel that flex is to stiff now, there is 2 reasons for why PX 6.0 is the wrong direction (both weight and flex)

    Thanks for the help. I am going to try the lead tape and see how that feels. I think I am over swinging by trying to overpower the shaft sometimes. It could be my right shoulder comes into play too much, but that’s something I have to figure out. As far as the flex goes, I am playing the x-100 not the s300’s so the PX 6.0 should be a step down from the x-100.

    Posted:
  • hwturner17hwturner17 Members  481WRX Points: 177Posts: 481 Greens
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    Do we have any idea where the Project X LZ's fall on the original chart? I apologize if that has already been touched upon

    Posted:
  • Howard_JonesHoward_Jones Members  11058WRX Points: 1,945Posts: 11,058 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Oct 8, 2019 #840

    On -, @hwturner17 said:

    Do we have any idea where the Project X LZ's fall on the original chart? I apologize if that has already been touched upon

    Ive tried a endless number of times to tell how USELESS a compare like this is for the avid Golfer, only highly skilled club fitters have a limited value of it. Compared by butt CPM alone, PX LZ is more than one full flex softer, or LZ 6.5 is softer than standard PX 5.5, but thats NOT how they feel and play. The general advice is to go "1 PX flex number" up from the standard so PX LZ 6.0 is the model we can compare to PX 5.5, but since weight is different, we have to take that into considerations. For short LZ is softer than the standard with the same flex number, and launch is higher.

    This is NOT a "full profile", but the best i can offer for compare of PX model relevant here.
    (if the same model is on 2 lines, its 2 shafts measured so we get to see the "tolerances" there might be so we dont read any of this numbers as "absolute" numbers, but values of the actual shafts that was measured.

    Posted:

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  • NegncicNegncic Members  104WRX Points: 68Posts: 104 Fairways
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    Howard, I appreciate all the information you provided. It made me realize that looking at numbers on a chart is not the way for me to pick a shaft instead, a proper fitting with someone who knows what they are doing is the way to go.

    Posted:
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