Sam's guess at Hogan's secret...

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  • MizunoJoeMizunoJoe Members  1000WRX Points: 1Posts: 1,000 Platinum Tees
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    <br />
    One problem with the supination issue, is that when viewed face-on in video, it is largely an optical illusion. For example, stand straight up holding a golf club in front of you with the shaft parallel to the ground. Do this in front of a mirror or film it. Now rotate your entire body 90 deg to the right (as in making a backswing) while still keepin the club right in front of you, toe up. Then rotate the entire body 180 to the left (as in a follow through position) still keeping the clubhead toe up. Notice how it appears that you've rotated the clubface 180 degrees when in fact you've done nothing to rotate it at all relative to your body. Do the same thing several times while slowly lowering down into a golf posture. learn something.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    If you don't understand the half-roll of Angled Hinging and want to, just do this instead of trying to read someone's explanation.
    Posted:
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  • MizunoJoeMizunoJoe Members  1000WRX Points: 1Posts: 1,000 Platinum Tees
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    <br />
    MizunoJoe wrote:
    <br />
    <br />
    Does he supinate his left hand, or is his left hand being supinated, that is the key?!<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    And that key opens the door to the TGM concepts of Horizontal and Angled Hinging. If the left wrist is deliberately rotated, it supinates - the full roll. If the left wrist isn't rolled, it still gets supinated - it just happens - the half roll of Angled Hinging. Of course, the latter is what he does for his stock hold fade.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    What if Hogan adds #3, and he has a lot...how would that affect the full roll-half roll hinging?<br />
    <br />
    And what if Hogan fires those hips hard and early compared to easier and later...how would that affect the full roll-half roll hinging?<br />
    <br />
    And what if Hogan cups his L wrist a bit as compared to flattening his L wrist...how would that affect the full roll-half roll hinging?<br />
    <br />
    And what if Hogan gets his spine angle more bent over, turns his shoulders parallel to the Hogan plane...how would that affect the full roll-half roll hinging action?<br />
    <br />
    What if Hogan releases his shoulders with a high R shoulder as compared to a lower R shoulder or more reverse-C-ish finish...how would that affect the full roll-half roll hinging?<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    By the time he rolls the angle(throwout in TGM) before impact, it's not so big. That aside, it doesn't affect the half roll which you get automatically without rolling the left wrist.<br />
    <br />
    All the rest is just stuff you dig out of the dirt by adjusting face angle at address and hand path. The bottom line is that if you come into release with the right elbow well under the left arm, get the hand path right, and do it late enough, you can turn your shoulders as hard as you want without actively rolling the left wrist, and still close the face enough to get a nice baby cut instead of a big honkin slice, but not so closed that you have to fear hooking it.
    Posted:
  • ej002ej002 Unregistered  5129WRX Points: 3Posts: 5,129 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #2674
    MizunoJoe wrote:
    By the time he rolls the angle(throwout in TGM) before impact, it's not so big. That aside, it doesn't affect the half roll which you get automatically without rolling the left wrist.<br />
    <br />
    All the rest is just stuff you dig out of the dirt by adjusting face angle at address and hand path. The bottom line is that if you come into release with the right elbow well under the left arm, get the hand path right, and do it late enough, you can turn your shoulders as hard as you want without actively rolling the left wrist, and still close the face enough to get a nice baby cut instead of a big honkin slice, but not so closed that you have to fear hooking it.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Excellent statements there. I think this is what "I found Hogan's secret this weekend" thread is all about.
    Posted:
  • MizunoJoeMizunoJoe Members  1000WRX Points: 1Posts: 1,000 Platinum Tees
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    ej002 wrote:
    <br />
    MizunoJoe wrote:
    By the time he rolls the angle(throwout in TGM) before impact, it's not so big. That aside, it doesn't affect the half roll which you get automatically without rolling the left wrist.<br />
    <br />
    All the rest is just stuff you dig out of the dirt by adjusting face angle at address and hand path. The bottom line is that if you come into release with the right elbow well under the left arm, get the hand path right, and do it late enough, you can turn your shoulders as hard as you want without actively rolling the left wrist, and still close the face enough to get a nice baby cut instead of a big honkin slice, but not so closed that you have to fear hooking it.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Excellent statements there. I think this is what "I found Hogan's secret this weekend" thread is all about.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    We will know for sure if he doesn't jump in here and deny it! <img src='http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/stop.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':stop:' />
    Posted:
  • svsvincenzosvsvincenzo Members  1822WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,822
    Joined:  #2676
    MizunoJoe wrote:
    <br />
    <br />
    By the time he rolls the angle(throwout in TGM) before impact, it's not so big. That aside, it doesn't affect the half roll which you get automatically without rolling the left wrist.<br />
    <br />
    All the rest is just stuff you dig out of the dirt by adjusting face angle at address and hand path. The bottom line is that if you come into release with the right elbow well under the left arm, get the hand path right, and do it late enough, you can turn your shoulders as hard as you want without actively rolling the left wrist, and still close the face enough to get a nice baby cut instead of a big honkin slice, but not so closed that you have to fear hooking it.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I respect your opinion MJ. But IMO, Hogan, not us, will hit the ball to the right with that.<br />
    <br />
    For us, to straighten the ball and hit a nice fade, we would have to bend the baseline during the DS with a low and left release.
    Posted:
  • MizunoJoeMizunoJoe Members  1000WRX Points: 1Posts: 1,000 Platinum Tees
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    <br />
    MizunoJoe wrote:
    <br />
    <br />
    By the time he rolls the angle(throwout in TGM) before impact, it's not so big. That aside, it doesn't affect the half roll which you get automatically without rolling the left wrist.<br />
    <br />
    All the rest is just stuff you dig out of the dirt by adjusting face angle at address and hand path. The bottom line is that if you come into release with the right elbow well under the left arm, get the hand path right, and do it late enough, you can turn your shoulders as hard as you want without actively rolling the left wrist, and still close the face enough to get a nice baby cut instead of a big honkin slice, but not so closed that you have to fear hooking it.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I respect your opinion MJ. But IMO, Hogan, not us, will hit the ball to the right with that.<br />
    <br />
    For us, to straighten the ball and hit a nice fade, we would have to bend the baseline during the DS with a low and left release.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    You mean if we used his bent open irons? Otherwise, I don't follow, because I do this every day with unbent irons.
    Posted:
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  • svsvincenzosvsvincenzo Members  1822WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,822
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    MizunoJoe wrote:
    <br />
    <br />
    MizunoJoe wrote:
    <br />
    By the time he rolls the angle(throwout in TGM) before impact, it's not so big. That aside, it doesn't affect the half roll which you get automatically without rolling the left wrist.<br />
    <br />
    All the rest is just stuff you dig out of the dirt by adjusting face angle at address and hand path. The bottom line is that if you come into release with the right elbow well under the left arm, get the hand path right, and do it late enough, you can turn your shoulders as hard as you want without actively rolling the left wrist, and still close the face enough to get a nice baby cut instead of a big honkin slice, but not so closed that you have to fear hooking it.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I respect your opinion MJ. But IMO, Hogan, not us, will hit the ball to the right with that.<br />
    <br />
    For us, to straighten the ball and hit a nice fade, we would have to bend the baseline during the DS with a low and left release.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    You mean if we used his bent open irons? Otherwise, I don't follow, because I do this every day with unbent irons.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    That also, and all the other things I said in my previous post. There are so many things he did that affects and slows down SUBSTANTIALLY the full-rolling intent, not only in the DS to impact but also in the takeaway to BS to top...
    Posted:
  • nicebutdimnicebutdim Members  596WRX Points: 0Posts: 596
    Joined:  edited Jun 1, 2012 #2679
    despite a very strong pivot into his right leg, does anyone feel that Hogan stays on his left side throughout the swing?<br />
    <br />
    contradictory I know....... however this is a set-up position and feeling that I'm working on.
    Posted:
  • svsvincenzosvsvincenzo Members  1822WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,822
    Joined:  #2680
    nicebutdim wrote:
    <br />
    despite a very strong pivot into his right leg, does anyone feel that Hogan stays on his left side throughout the swing?<br />
    <br />
    contradictory I know....... however this is a set-up position and feeling that I'm working on.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Why not just follow what he said in 5Lessons? Equal weight to L and R foot, weight on the heels, your tushline behind the heels like sitting in a spectator stick...then restrict/restrain the legs/hips turn while turning the shoulders parallel to the Hogan plane of glass from ball to shoulders at setup and while keeping the angle in the R leg still...check out what will happen...do it without paying attention to the club at first...
    Posted:
  • tylerdurdentylerdurden Members  1261WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,261
    Joined:  #2681
    nicebutdim wrote:
    <br />
    despite a very strong pivot into his right leg, does anyone feel that Hogan stays on his left side throughout the swing?<br />
    <br />
    contradictory I know....... however this is a set-up position and feeling that I'm working on.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I don't think he stays on his left side throughout. Lowers his left hip in the BS but still turns into his right side as SF says.
    Posted:
  • nicebutdimnicebutdim Members  596WRX Points: 0Posts: 596
    Joined:  #2682
    <br />
    nicebutdim wrote:
    <br />
    despite a very strong pivot into his right leg, does anyone feel that Hogan stays on his left side throughout the swing?<br />
    <br />
    contradictory I know....... however this is a set-up position and feeling that I'm working on.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Why not just follow what he said in 5Lessons? Equal weight to L and R foot, weight on the heels, your tushline behind the heels like sitting in a spectator stick...then restrict/restrain the legs/hips turn while turning the shoulders parallel to the Hogan plane of glass from ball to shoulders at setup and while keeping the angle in the R leg still...check out what will happen...do it without paying attention to the club at first...<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    <br />
    is that all? lol<br />
    <br />
    thanks for the suggestions, I think I've get the set-up and backswing pretty dialed I'm just trying to iron some things out....... The main area of my focus is how to start the transition and I think I had a Eureka moment on this.<br />
    <br />
    Anyway it could be my own personal makeup (left leg is longer than my right so I have trouble getting on the left side) however once I get the set-up and transition correct (backing into the ball almost with a braced right leg) I just feel that my weight is always staying quite left............ and from a visual point of view Hogan appears to stay fairly left with his irons especially the shorter ones.<br />
    <br />
    Anyway this motion has taken my leg weight feeling from a more centered one to being more on the left side........... just wondering if anyone else FEELS the same? (I'm sure V J Trolio would say yes!)
    Posted:
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  • nicebutdimnicebutdim Members  596WRX Points: 0Posts: 596
    Joined:  #2683
    <br />
    nicebutdim wrote:
    <br />
    despite a very strong pivot into his right leg, does anyone feel that Hogan stays on his left side throughout the swing?<br />
    <br />
    contradictory I know....... however this is a set-up position and feeling that I'm working on.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I don't think he stays on his left side throughout. Lowers his left hip in the BS but still turns into his right side as SF says.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Apologies, it was probably inaccurate to say I'm set up that way like a Stack&Tilt'er.......... its more that with a very braced right leg pivot and transition I feel I'm always leaning and pushing towards it.
    Posted:
  • svsvincenzosvsvincenzo Members  1822WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,822
    Joined:  #2684
    nicebutdim wrote:
    <br />
    <br />
    nicebutdim wrote:
    <br />
    despite a very strong pivot into his right leg, does anyone feel that Hogan stays on his left side throughout the swing?<br />
    <br />
    contradictory I know....... however this is a set-up position and feeling that I'm working on.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Why not just follow what he said in 5Lessons? Equal weight to L and R foot, weight on the heels, your tushline behind the heels like sitting in a spectator stick...then restrict/restrain the legs/hips turn while turning the shoulders parallel to the Hogan plane of glass from ball to shoulders at setup and while keeping the angle in the R leg still...check out what will happen...do it without paying attention to the club at first...<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    <br />
    is that all? lol<br />
    <br />
    thanks for the suggestions, I think I've get the set-up and backswing pretty dialed I'm just trying to iron some things out....... The main area of my focus is how to start the transition and I think I had a Eureka moment on this.<br />
    <br />
    Anyway it could be my own personal makeup (left leg is longer than my right so I have trouble getting on the left side) however once I get the set-up and transition correct (backing into the ball almost with a braced right leg) I just feel that my weight is always staying quite left............ and from a visual point of view Hogan appears to stay fairly left with his irons especially the shorter ones.<br />
    <br />
    Anyway this motion has taken my leg weight feeling from a more centered one to being more on the left side........... just wondering if anyone else FEELS the same? (I'm sure V J Trolio would say yes!)<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Sorry. I'm sorta asking you what you feel will happen if you do that. This is the Hogan forum by the way, so we are just talking what Hogan did.
    Posted:
  • svsvincenzosvsvincenzo Members  1822WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,822
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    nicebutdim wrote:
    <br />
    <br />
    nicebutdim wrote:
    <br />
    despite a very strong pivot into his right leg, does anyone feel that Hogan stays on his left side throughout the swing?<br />
    <br />
    contradictory I know....... however this is a set-up position and feeling that I'm working on.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I don't think he stays on his left side throughout. Lowers his left hip in the BS but still turns into his right side as SF says.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Apologies, it was probably inaccurate to say I'm set up that way like a Stack&Tilt'er.......... its more that with a very braced right leg pivot and transition I feel I'm always leaning and pushing towards it.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Hogan is hitting a fairway wood in here...<br />
    <br />
    />
    <br />
    Seems to me like he did what he said.
    Posted:
  • tylerdurdentylerdurden Members  1261WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,261
    Joined:  #2686
    <br />
    nicebutdim wrote:
    <br />
    despite a very strong pivot into his right leg, does anyone feel that Hogan stays on his left side throughout the swing?<br />
    <br />
    contradictory I know....... however this is a set-up position and feeling that I'm working on.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Why not just follow what he said in 5Lessons? Equal weight to L and R foot, weight on the heels, your tushline behind the heels like sitting in a spectator stick...then restrict/restrain the legs/hips turn while turning the shoulders parallel to the Hogan plane of glass from ball to shoulders at setup and while keeping the angle in the R leg still...check out what will happen...do it without paying attention to the club at first...<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I'm confused a little by how you keep mentioning Hogan turned his shoulders on the plane of glass. His shoulders are almost always (if not always) WAY flatter than that plane when he gets to the top of his backswing. Do you agree? Or am I messing up what you're saying?
    Posted:
  • nicebutdimnicebutdim Members  596WRX Points: 0Posts: 596
    Joined:  #2687
    <p>
    <br />
    nicebutdim wrote:
    <br />
    <br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I don't think he stays on his left side throughout. Lowers his left hip in the BS but still turns into his right side as SF says.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Apologies, it was probably inaccurate to say I'm set up that way like a Stack&Tilt'er.......... its more that with a very braced right leg pivot and transition I feel I'm always leaning and pushing towards it.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Hogan is hitting a fairway wood in here...<br />
    <br />
    [media=] />
    <br />
    Seems to me like he did what he said.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I'm probably going nowhere with this............ buuut<br />
    <br />
    <sup><iframe allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9JlUJDsTY9A&quot; width="420"></iframe></sup></p>
    <p> </p>
    <p>more apparent with the irons, but it seems to me that he builds up some serious pressure points on his left foot (whether kept grounded or heel raised) and despite cranking into his right leg Hogan only marginally shifts off his left before backing back into it, particularly with that arms-still-going-back-whilst-hips-shift-forwards Transition.............. anyways, this is what I'm starting to feel.</p>
    Posted:
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  • tylerdurdentylerdurden Members  1261WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,261
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    Remember he is moving way more laterally when hititng driver though (through almost all eras).
    Posted:
  • nicebutdimnicebutdim Members  596WRX Points: 0Posts: 596
    Joined:  edited Jun 1, 2012 #2689
    <br />
    Remember he is moving way more laterally when hititng driver though (through almost all eras).<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Sure that's why i didn't want to use a Driver swing as an example as he will be definitely more centered and comes off that left heel more.
    Posted:
  • svsvincenzosvsvincenzo Members  1822WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,822
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    <br />
    Remember he is moving way more laterally when hititng driver though (through almost all eras).<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Yup. That's because his foot stance is wider.
    Posted:
  • svsvincenzosvsvincenzo Members  1822WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,822
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    <br />
    <br />
    nicebutdim wrote:
    <br />
    despite a very strong pivot into his right leg, does anyone feel that Hogan stays on his left side throughout the swing?<br />
    <br />
    contradictory I know....... however this is a set-up position and feeling that I'm working on.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Why not just follow what he said in 5Lessons? Equal weight to L and R foot, weight on the heels, your tushline behind the heels like sitting in a spectator stick...then restrict/restrain the legs/hips turn while turning the shoulders parallel to the Hogan plane of glass from ball to shoulders at setup and while keeping the angle in the R leg still...check out what will happen...do it without paying attention to the club at first...<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I'm confused a little by how you keep mentioning Hogan turned his shoulders on the plane of glass. His shoulders are almost always (if not always) WAY flatter than that plane when he gets to the top of his backswing. Do you agree? Or am I messing up what you're saying?<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Yes if you put a line from his L shoulder to R shoulder on top. But you have to realize that the R shoulder can't go higher much because during the BS the whole R side from the R shoulder to the R ankle cannot in any way elongate. Plus Hogan is trying to keep his R armpit connected (R upper arm connected to the R upper chest). However, his L shoulder has more flexibility to go down on that Hogan plane. Also, look at his neck's spine/bones...aren't they almost, if not, perpendicular to the Hogan plane?
    Posted:
  • tylerdurdentylerdurden Members  1261WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,261
    Joined:  #2692
    <br />
    Yes if you put a line from his L shoulder to R shoulder on top. But you have to realize that the R shoulder can't go higher much because during the BS the whole R side from the R shoulder to the R ankle cannot in any way elongate. Plus Hogan is trying to keep his R armpit connected (R upper arm connected to the R upper chest). However, his L shoulder has more flexibility to go down on that Hogan plane. Also, look at his neck's spine/bones...aren't they almost, if not, perpendicular to the Hogan plane?<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I agree his neck is pretty bent over. But shoulder turn steepness is a function of posture and the spines position. The only mobility in the shoulders that's independent of moving the spine is up because the shoulders are relaxed at address and are already as low as they can go.
    Posted:
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  • hoganfan924hoganfan924 Members  5185WRX Points: 55Posts: 5,185 Titanium Tees
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    Hogan's left arm also swung way below the pane of glass and his hands at the top of the backswing were at least a foot below where they would be if he'd kept his left arm brushing that pane all the way to the top as he claimed in 5L.
    Posted:
  • svsvincenzosvsvincenzo Members  1822WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,822
    Joined:  #2694
    <br />
    Hogan's left arm also swung way below the pane of glass and his hands at the top of the backswing were at least a foot below where they would be if he'd kept his left arm brushing that pane all the way to the top as he claimed in 5L.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I am sure it will brush the glass if his turned more such as in his driver swings where his aiming for max distance. For irons or easier swings where short of his maximum distance for that club, wouldn't you swing shorter?<br />
    <br />
    In any case...it seems to me his L arm (which incidentally includes the deltoids or shoulder muscles, hence his L shoulder I'm talking about) pretty much brushes the glass in here:<br />
    <br />
    />
    <br />
    />
    <br />
    But in any case, I think the whole L arm from deltoids/socket (L shoulder) to hands swinging parallel and UNDER the plane of glass is a great feel or imagery.
    Posted:
  • tylerdurdentylerdurden Members  1261WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,261
    Joined:  #2695
    <br />
    <br />
    Hogan's left arm also swung way below the pane of glass and his hands at the top of the backswing were at least a foot below where they would be if he'd kept his left arm brushing that pane all the way to the top as he claimed in 5L.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I am sure it will brush the glass if his turned more such as in his driver swings where his aiming for max distance. For irons or easier swings where short of his maximum distance for that club, wouldn't you swing shorter?<br />
    <br />
    In any case...it seems to me his L arm (which incidentally includes the deltoids or shoulder muscles, hence his L shoulder I'm talking about) pretty much brushes the glass in here:<br />
    <br />
    [media=] />
    <br />
    [media=] />
    <br />
    But in any case, I think the whole L arm from deltoids/socket (L shoulder) to hands swinging parallel and UNDER the plane of glass is a great feel or imagery.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    His left arm wouldn't touch the glass in the example you gave. It's easy to see, just hold a pen up to the screen and make a line from the ball through his neck. It's not even close.
    Posted:
  • MizunoJoeMizunoJoe Members  1000WRX Points: 1Posts: 1,000 Platinum Tees
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    nicebutdim wrote:
    <br />
    despite a very strong pivot into his right leg, does anyone feel that Hogan stays on his left side throughout the swing?<br />
    <br />
    contradictory I know....... however this is a set-up position and feeling that I'm working on.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    No, but he gets there sooner than anyone else.<br />
    <br />
    Try this - try to get your right shoulder back behind your right heel while keeping your right leg address slant and letting it straighten a bit - feel your right hip turn and push your left hip over your left foot as you do it.
    Posted:
  • nicebutdimnicebutdim Members  596WRX Points: 0Posts: 596
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    MizunoJoe wrote:
    <br />
    nicebutdim wrote:
    <br />
    despite a very strong pivot into his right leg, does anyone feel that Hogan stays on his left side throughout the swing?<br />
    <br />
    contradictory I know....... however this is a set-up position and feeling that I'm working on.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    No, but he gets there sooner than anyone else.<br />
    <br />
    Try this - try to get your right shoulder back behind your right heel while keeping your right leg address slant and letting it straighten a bit - feel your right hip turn and push your left hip over your left foot as you do it.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Sorry MJ, what am I trying to achieve here?
    Posted:
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  • MizunoJoeMizunoJoe Members  1000WRX Points: 1Posts: 1,000 Platinum Tees
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    nicebutdim wrote:
    <br />
    MizunoJoe wrote:
    <br />
    nicebutdim wrote:
    <br />
    despite a very strong pivot into his right leg, does anyone feel that Hogan stays on his left side throughout the swing?<br />
    <br />
    contradictory I know....... however this is a set-up position and feeling that I'm working on.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    No, but he gets there sooner than anyone else.<br />
    <br />
    Try this - try to get your right shoulder back behind your right heel while keeping your right leg address slant and letting it straighten a bit - feel your right hip turn and push your left hip over your left foot as you do it.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Sorry MJ, what am I trying to achieve here?<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    With a weight balance of say 45 left 55 right at address, that move will put you more on the left side early on the BS.
    Posted:
  • nicebutdimnicebutdim Members  596WRX Points: 0Posts: 596
    Joined:  #2699
    MizunoJoe wrote:
    <br />
    nicebutdim wrote:
    ]<br />
    <br />
    Sorry MJ, what am I trying to achieve here?<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    With a weight balance of say 45 left 55 right at address, that move will put you more on the left side early on the BS.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Gave it a whirl and first impressions is that this is fantastic advice, so muchos gracias!<br />
    <br />
    With little bits and pieces here and there I feel I'm getting bloody close to nailing and automating this transition, and therefore the optimum elbow and arm path on the downswing (beginning to feel more and more effortless, fluid, consistent and right).......... with a few tweaks to the all important set-up I really am beginning to feel that the right-hip-backing-into-the-target from the top is the SECRET move if there ever was one as it clears my lower body out of the way beautifully for the free ride................. aside from looking bang on to what Hogan does imo.<br />
    <br />
    ............. I'm so close I can taste it. <img src='http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />
    Posted:
  • svsvincenzosvsvincenzo Members  1822WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,822
    Joined:  #2700
    nicebutdim wrote:
    <br />
    MizunoJoe wrote:
    <br />
    nicebutdim wrote:
    ]<br />
    <br />
    Sorry MJ, what am I trying to achieve here?<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    With a weight balance of say 45 left 55 right at address, that move will put you more on the left side early on the BS.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Gave it a whirl and first impressions is that this is fantastic advice, so muchos gracias!<br />
    <br />
    With little bits and pieces here and there I feel I'm getting bloody close to nailing and automating this transition, and therefore the optimum elbow and arm path on the downswing (beginning to feel more and more effortless, fluid, consistent and right).......... with a few tweaks to the all important set-up I really am beginning to feel that the right-hip-backing-into-the-target from the top is the SECRET move if there ever was one as it clears my lower body out of the way beautifully for the free ride................. aside from looking bang on to what Hogan does imo.<br />
    <br />
    ............. I'm so close I can taste it. <img src='http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /><br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Agree with MJ. That's why I asked you to do it before. You WILL fall target wards for sure even if you don't straighten the R leg/knee. Just keeping the R leg angle is enough.
    Posted:
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  • svsvincenzosvsvincenzo Members  1822WRX Points: 0Posts: 1,822
    Joined:  #2701
    <br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Hogan's left arm also swung way below the pane of glass and his hands at the top of the backswing were at least a foot below where they would be if he'd kept his left arm brushing that pane all the way to the top as he claimed in 5L.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I am sure it will brush the glass if his turned more such as in his driver swings where his aiming for max distance. For irons or easier swings where short of his maximum distance for that club, wouldn't you swing shorter?<br />
    <br />
    In any case...it seems to me his L arm (which incidentally includes the deltoids or shoulder muscles, hence his L shoulder I'm talking about) pretty much brushes the glass in here:<br />
    <br />
    [media=] />
    <br />
    [media=] />
    <br />
    But in any case, I think the whole L arm from deltoids/socket (L shoulder) to hands swinging parallel and UNDER the plane of glass is a great feel or imagery.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    His left arm wouldn't touch the glass in the example you gave. It's easy to see, just hold a pen up to the screen and make a line from the ball through his neck. It's not even close.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    The Hogan plane of glass is measured from ball to shoulders at SETUP, not on top (not Turned Shoulder Plane).<br />
    <br />
    But in any case, it is pretty close on full driver swings. Only the hands part is not brushing much.<br />
    <br />
    But to me the most important thing is the L shoulder. It mustn't go above the plane. The L shoulder, which to me by the way is part of the L arm, should really turn below and UNDER the Hogan plane.
    Posted:
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