Backing up Pro V1 15+ feet with Vokey SM 4 Wedges

Controlling spin has as much (or more) to do with your swing than the ball. Look at the pros ... same ball, same club, same distance, and they can hit a ball that spins back 10 feet, hit a stop-hop-roll, or hit one that just pretty much stops where it hits.

Beginnings generally can't figure out how to spin a ball at all (because the vast majority of them try to scoop the ball, "help" it into the air). You get a bit better, and you learn how to keep the hands in front of the club at contact, hit down, and trap it.

But the next level is learning to control the spin .... and that has a little to do with the ball, but not that much (i.e., if you are really spinning a ball back 15 with a conforming SM wedge, you can switch to the hardest ball on earth and it would still spin back 10 feet). It is about swing path, setup (where the ball is in the stance), etc. ...

Just my $0.02 ...

Same reason I won't play Pro V's! On full wedges I can rip a ProV across the green with the Z-Star about 8ft backwards max. Its not really enough to make a difference but I'm a few yards longer with the Z-Star driver-pw but I think its a much better ball in the wind.

Different swing types required different equipment, and a golf ball is just another piece of equipment.

That being said, I have similar issues with approach shot spin, and I too will not play V1 or V1x. I've found this years Tour B330, Penta TP5 and Hex Chrome to be great at full wedge spin control. Also, last years Z Star VX does well in that department.

A website that independently tests most premium golf balls found that the 20XI-X spun noticeably less than the ProV1 and ProV1X. Having said that, an earier post is correct that hitting less than full shots with your wedges will do much more to help control excessive spin on approach shots than a ball switch can.

Z-Star XV spins significantly less than other premium balls I have tried. I almost want a bit more spin!

[quote name='bobfoster' timestamp='1332196863' post='4538665']
Controlling spin has as much (or more) to do with your swing than the ball. Look at the pros ... same ball, same club, same distance, and they can hit a ball that spins back 10 feet, hit a stop-hop-roll, or hit one that just pretty much stops where it hits.

Beginnings generally can't figure out how to spin a ball at all (because the vast majority of them try to scoop the ball, "help" it into the air). You get a bit better, and you learn how to keep the hands in front of the club at contact, hit down, and trap it.

But the next level is learning to control the spin .... and that has a little to do with the ball, but not that much (i.e., if you are really spinning a ball back 15 with a conforming SM wedge, you can switch to the hardest ball on earth and it would still spin back 10 feet). It is about swing path, setup (where the ball is in the stance), etc. ...

Just my $0.02 ...
[/quote]

Always the voice of reason and as always, very well said. You might get flamed for suggesting it's more about technique than equipment, but no matter what you say, some people will either refuse to believe it or discount it and really try to delude themselves. And OP, I'm not talking specifically about you and sorry if I thread-jacked your post...

Yes, there are balls and other equipment that fits one player or swing better than others, and in this specific case, there are balls of varying spin rates, but with the exception of a few very good/elite players and low single indexes that I'm absolutely sure are members on this site, for the vast majority of us, I don't believe our swings/games are good enough to CONSISTENTLY differentiate one premium offering than another as it relates to spin. Now, FEEL is a completely different thing but as far as performance is concerned, the testing of the various spin rates of different balls using a robotic arm is nowhere near real-world situations and settings.

I chuckle whenever I see a ball review that states "I hit XYZ ball a touch higher than my normal ABC ball" or even "such-and-such ball was 5-7 yards longer than so-and-so ball"...it's just not possible to deduce exact numbers on the course without using a radar-based launch monitor, a 100% consistently repeatable swing, and as close to zero environmental factors as possible. Factor that in with the mental/psychological/brand or ball biases/placebo-effect factors when trying a new ball, along with previously stated inconsistencies in swing with the vast majority of golfers, and ball "reviews" become highly subjective. It should more accurately be called ball "opinions"...

As for me personally, I'm at the point of my game where I know to create spin with my wedges and have finally developed the ability and technique to rip a ball back with high-quality contact, and at the moment, I'm trying to learn how to control that spin...like bobfoster stated, one hop-and-stop, or pull it back 10 feet, or have it spin left or right, based on pin location. I am working on hitting that low, highly spinning wedge shot that hits the green and pulls back like it's on a string...if not for better scoring, for the oooh and ahhh factor that it usually receives, lol.

The three balls that I currently play are the ProV1 and the TM Pentas and Blacks, but out of those 3, in my mind, I feel like the ProV1 spins the most (and feels the best). But as stated above, that's solely my own perception (whether it's true or not), because I have never been fitted for a ball using a LM. But I also feel like if I have the proper technique and develop more consistency, I can make all 3 balls do similar things, albeit with small differences...

if you spin the ball too much: take more club and choke down and hit a fade or a cut, that will give you less spin.

[quote name='The General' timestamp='1332355333' post='4551118']
if you spin the ball too much: take more club and choke down and hit a fade or a cut, that will give you less spin.
[/quote]

I'm sorry...say what?

I'm no expert or even a student of the golf swing, but my rudimentary understanding is that a fade produces MORE backspin than a draw...am I mistaken?

[quote name='rickeyg' timestamp='1332195860' post='4538545']
I'd naturally like more distance off the driver than a Pro V1 and a ball that will stop or just release with wedges not back up 15+ feet. Thanks guys I appreciate your insight.


RickeyG
[/quote]

You can try switching to the ProV1x. It is designed to spin less off of a driver, and should give you more distance IF excess spin is costing you distance.

But I agree with bobfoster. If you are backing a Pro V1 up 5+ yds off of a confroming SM4...then you are either hitting full wedges into rock-hard greens, sloping towards you, and into the wind (in which case you have a [b][i]shot selection problem[/i][/b]), or you are suffering from a case of "Greg Norman disease". That is, your angle of attack into the ball is too steep.

When Greg Norman was in his prime...and super spinny wound balata balls were what the pros played...he used to have a tremendous problem with spinning balls off of greens on wedge shots. For the reasons I mentioned above. In early 90s, however, he went to Butch Harmon and changed his swing. This result was a swing that was far less steep...and his problems with controlling the spin on his wedge shots went away.

Either don't post up so much on your left leg on your wedge shots....or don't hit more than a 3/4 shot with your wedges. The first change will make your swing plane less steep. The second will take spin off of the shot your are hitting, and make it more prone to simply sitting down when it lands.

[quote name='asong77' timestamp='1332356514' post='4551258']
[quote name='The General' timestamp='1332355333' post='4551118']
if you spin the ball too much: take more club and choke down and hit a fade or a cut, that will give you less spin.
[/quote]

I'm sorry...say what?

I'm no expert or even a student of the golf swing, but my rudimentary understanding is that a fade produces MORE backspin than a draw...am I mistaken?
[/quote]

the harder you swing, the more spin you produce....take more club and you won't swing as hard therefore producing less spin

a draw has more spin than a fade.

[quote name='The General' timestamp='1332357481' post='4551358']
[quote name='asong77' timestamp='1332356514' post='4551258']
[quote name='The General' timestamp='1332355333' post='4551118']
if you spin the ball too much: take more club and choke down and hit a fade or a cut, that will give you less spin.
[/quote]

I'm sorry...say what?

I'm no expert or even a student of the golf swing, but my rudimentary understanding is that a fade produces MORE backspin than a draw...am I mistaken?
[/quote]

the harder you swing, the more spin you produce....take more club and you won't swing as hard therefore producing less spin

a draw has more spin than a fade.
[/quote]

A fade has [b]more[/b] backspin than a draw does.

Most tour level balls are going to spin quite a bit more than some of the other 2 and 3 piece balls...if spin is a huge issue, you may look to go to one of these...

Other than that, controlling spin is best achieved through swing and club modification/technique...

Thanks to all.

You really only have 2 options:

1. Get a new ball that doesn't spin as much. or...

2. Change your technique, and learn to hit wedge shoots with different trajectories and/or spin.

If you're serious about your game and have time to practice, I'd go with option #2. If your don't have to much practice time, and just play on weekends for fun, I'd go with option #1.

This is the very reason I play a Bridgestone e6, my wedge and short Irons hit once and relase maybe 3 ft., Mid irons release maybe 10 ft.

Swing is the number one requirement for the spin rate however to answer your question I found Z star XV is the great ball in terms of the spin rate between Prov1 and Prov1x

[quote name='The General' timestamp='1332357481' post='4551358']
[quote name='asong77' timestamp='1332356514' post='4551258']
[quote name='The General' timestamp='1332355333' post='4551118']
if you spin the ball too much: take more club and choke down and hit a fade or a cut, that will give you less spin.
[/quote]

I'm sorry...say what?

I'm no expert or even a student of the golf swing, but my rudimentary understanding is that a fade produces MORE backspin than a draw...am I mistaken?
[/quote]

the harder you swing, the more spin you produce....take more club and you won't swing as hard therefore producing less spin

a draw has more spin than a fade.
[/quote]

I do understand the concept of more club/easier swing leading to putting less spin on the ball, but I believe you're mistaken about a draw having more spin than a fade...

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1332357785' post='4551392']

A fade has [b]more[/b] backspin than a draw does.
[/quote]

That's my understanding too. A draw goes further than a fade, but a fade definitely has more backspin. I've looked into why a draw goes further, and apparently, there's a lot of misconceptions and confusion around it (at least online)...

[quote name='rickeyg' timestamp='1332195860' post='4538545']
I'd naturally like more distance off the driver than a Pro V1 and a ball that will stop or just release with wedges not back up 15+ feet. Thanks guys I appreciate your insight.


RickeyG
[/quote]

Out of couriousity... can you spin a DT SoLo or a mid level 3 piece like the NXT Tour?? Have you tried these or any similar ones??? Just because the pros use Pro V1 doesn't mean we all have to...

The new pentas are probably perfect for you

the general is totally wrong about draw vs. fade spin, as others have mentioned.