My TIGER-stepped WEDGE EXPERIMENT!!

After reading one of Howard's posts suggesting this (some folks call it Tiger-stepping as TW apparently does something similar), I paired some non-flighted Project X (6.5) eight iron shafts with my 53 and 58 degree Scratch 8620 D/D's. Got out today with these for the first time and just wanted to share some initial opinions. To preface, I played 5.5 non-flighted PX shafts all last year and the year before with some Mizuno irons. I didn't hate the feel, and really liked how they performed for me. Pretty much a mid/high and flat flight with all irons and (for me) average spin - enough to stop a ball, but not enough to suck it back 10 feet.

With that said, I went out on the course with these for the first time, and really liked what I saw. I was initially nervous about them being 6.5's. Howard (who can correct me if I am wrong) mentioned that using 8 iron shafts in a full point stronger flex (by which I mean going from something like 5.5's to 6.5's in terms of PX shafts) might CPM somewhat equally, but have different flight characteristics which would be appropriate for wedge shafts. He suggested that they might launch a bit lower and spin well. From what I saw today, I believe he was spot on.

I played in strong winds today on a slightly damp course. Greens were dry since they were elevated and exposed to wind - fairly receptive due to it being early in the season, but not saturated by any means. I was using a Titleist NXT Tour (I normally use a Z-Star, but wind is wind). Overall, what I noticed is a significantly lower flight and great spin - just as Howard indicated. Very tight dispersion and excellent distance control. I was pin high on every wedge shot, and I am not only talking about short pitches. I hit all kinds of shots today because of the wind. Had a range of distances up to 100 yards. Bear in mind also that this is my second round of the season. I consider myself a good wedge player, but these are better results than I am used to this early in the season. I can't comment on sand play yet - I didn't hit into any, and I don't think the D/D grinds on my Scratch wedges set up well for open-faced shots (which I normally consider a strength of my game), so I don't think it would be a proper evaluation.

Spin was very good. Some of this was the head obviously, along with a certain amount of ball striking, but the "Tiger-stepping" seemed to add a bit more than I would have normally expected. By comparison, I used to game Cally X-Forged Vintage, Vokeys, Mizuno Mp-t11's, and still have a pair of old 588's in the closet. With any of these, a normal 50 yard shot pitch (with a urethane ball) would drop and stop, and maybe back up foot or two. I could dig it out harder and get more, but that is usually what I played for. I usually didn't get 2 or 3 piece balls to back up. The interesting thing here is that, even using an NXT Tour, the ball would come off low, do a one hop and grab up (didn't spin back, though). This is new for me with that kind of a ball. Since there was a lot of wind, I tried knocking down a wedge shot with my 53 degree gap wedge from about 75 yards out. I like hitting little "burning" wedge shots that come off low and grab hard. When I hit that shot today, the ball launched about 15 feet off the ground (much lower than what I normally see) and stayed that way to the green. With that low of a flight (with that ball), I didn't think it would sit on the green, though I struck it well. To my surprise, it two hopped and stopped dead. My father thought I had sculled it until he saw what it did on the green. That was really cool to see. (I will take these out again for my next round and use a urethane ball and see what happens. Should be fun!)

The feel wasn't "warm," but it wasn't harsh either. I was lucky enough to strike a number of shots well, and while the feel wasn't sweet like with Dynamic Golds, it was a lot smoother than normal PX. I really liked the weight of this pairing, too. I like a stronger weight in my wedges (really I prefer it in all my clubs) and this felt good to me. The flight was much more consistent with Dynamic Golds than PX. Really, it was a lower flight than DG's - for me. DG s300's have traditionally been my favorite wedge shafts ever. I didn't get on with the TT Spinners (at all), hated everything about Rifle Spinners, could never figure out what PX shaft to use in my wedges, and was indifferent to the Hi-Revs. Great shafts, all of them, just not for me.

I know there are a lot of WRX'ers who already know about this, so I am only mentioning to those who haven't tried it yet, or who may still not be aware of it. Thanks to Howard for making this suggestion. I will update as I get even more experience with these shafts/wedges. Just to be clear, these are only initial impressions, and I will update as I go.

MG

can u post a link to the original article??

thanks!

I will take a look for it, but it wasn't a thread Howard started, just one that he replied in. Might be hard to find...

I also read the article and decided to give it a try. More so for me I was looking to lower the launch a little in the wedges. Granted, 99.9% of how you flight your wedges is based on technique but I like to tinker so I thought what the hay.

I chose to go with TTDG X200 as I would typically play a stiff. I chose 7 iron shafts to get me close to a S300 flex which is what I would typically play. In theory it should launch lower because the first step is much closer to the head than an S300 wedge shaft.

We're just getting going here in MN so I want to get some more time in yet before I make any judments.

I'll post later once I get some rounds and practice under my belt.

Done the same to mine and love it. Took it a bit further though, I play 6.0's so got a 7.0 for my SW but did a 6.5 for my lob. Softened it up a bit since the lob is never a full swing club for me. Good write up BTW

I have been looking for new wedges but this might be the answer instead.

So basically just softstepping a 7 iron shaft like 3-4 times.

[quote name='rblmp32' timestamp='1332541772' post='4565896']
So basically just softstepping a 7 iron shaft like 3-4 times.
[/quote]

Not exactly. You probably already know what I mean, but to be clear, I took 8 iron shafts from a frequency range that was a bit stiffer. I normally play 5.5's in Project X for all irons. The 8 iron shafts I installed were 6.5's. Normally, I shouldn't be touching a flex like that, but since it was a softer 8i shaft, it works. It has the launch characteristics and weight of a 6.5, but still spins like a softer wedge shaft. Others might be able to explain it better...

Don't be scared try it, you might be surprised. I don't think I'll ever go back to 'normal' no matter which company I choose (DG, PX or Nippon ect).

[url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/489551-8-iron-shaft-in-a-wedge/page__view__findpost__p__3354433"]http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/489551-8-iron-shaft-in-a-wedge/page__view__findpost__p__3354433[/url]

[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1332546722' post='4566338']
[quote name='rblmp32' timestamp='1332541772' post='4565896']
So basically just softstepping a 7 iron shaft like 3-4 times.
[/quote]

Not exactly. You probably already know what I mean, but to be clear, I took 8 iron shafts from a frequency range that was a bit stiffer. I normally play 5.5's in Project X for all irons. The 8 iron shafts I installed were 6.5's. Normally, I shouldn't be touching a flex like that, but since it was a softer 8i shaft, it works. It has the launch characteristics and weight of a 6.5, but still spins like a softer wedge shaft. Others might be able to explain it better...
[/quote]

You took a 6.5 8-iron shaft and softstepped it twice. It's the old school way of making a spinner shaft.

[quote name='jasonnj1978' timestamp='1332538512' post='4565530']
I also read the article and decided to give it a try. More so for me I was looking to lower the launch a little in the wedges. Granted, 99.9% of how you flight your wedges is based on technique but I like to tinker so I thought what the hay.

I chose to go with TTDG X200 as I would typically play a stiff. I chose 7 iron shafts to get me close to a S300 flex which is what I would typically play. In theory it should launch lower because the first step is much closer to the head than an S300 wedge shaft.

We're just getting going here in MN so I want to get some more time in yet before I make any judments.

I'll post later once I get some rounds and practice under my belt.
[/quote]

1.What shaft were you using before & how fast do you swing?
2. Have you noticed any change in the ball flight so far?

[quote name='RookieBlue7' timestamp='1332558901' post='4567672']
[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1332546722' post='4566338']
[quote name='rblmp32' timestamp='1332541772' post='4565896']
So basically just softstepping a 7 iron shaft like 3-4 times.
[/quote]

Not exactly. You probably already know what I mean, but to be clear, I took 8 iron shafts from a frequency range that was a bit stiffer. I normally play 5.5's in Project X for all irons. The 8 iron shafts I installed were 6.5's. Normally, I shouldn't be touching a flex like that, but since it was a softer 8i shaft, it works. It has the launch characteristics and weight of a 6.5, but still spins like a softer wedge shaft. Others might be able to explain it better...
[/quote]

You took a 6.5 8-iron shaft and softstepped it twice. It's the old school way of making a spinner shaft.
[/quote]

Yeah.

Great write-up, buddy!

FYI I was in the Titleist Tour Dept last week (in the Vokey area) and he had a lot of boxes of every shaft labeled DG X100 #8 iron, KBS Tour #8 iron etc.....and it would be soft stepping once because the 9 and PW shafts are the same in taper sets....

FYI if you match up the steps on a KBS high rev shaft it is just a normal KBS Tour 7 iron (steps match) and is supposedly 5 grams heavier. As far as I know some guys will play softer in the wedges i.e. X100 irons S400 wedges, PX 6.5 irons PX 6.0 wedges. For those who play the same shafts i.e. X100 3-LW some put the 8 iron shafts in the SW-LW. I have never head of going up 10 CPM's in flex. An 8 iron only have 1/2" step difference than a 9-PW shaft in a DG or KBS.

[quote name='driverwedge' timestamp='1332600515' post='4569752']
Great write-up, buddy!
[/quote]

Thanks DW!

Guys, I am not really smart enough to know how the soft-stepping plays out shaft to shaft; just trying what Howard suggested. I wish I could be more helpful on that, but some guys in this thread seem to really have it all sorted out. I just know I like what I see with this so far, and encourage folks to try it if they haven't already.

Not the thread jack, but this topic really interests me, so to anybody that can offer a suggestion, please do.
So, you play C-Taper X flex soft stepped once, in 4-P.
How would you approach shafting a 54* and 58* using the "Tiger-Stepping" process? ... .
Thanks for the guidance and advice.

Any ideas?

[quote name='webber' timestamp='1332606369' post='4570178']
FYI if you match up the steps on a KBS high rev shaft it is just a normal KBS Tour 7 iron (steps match) and is supposedly 5 grams heavier. As far as I know some guys will play softer in the wedges i.e. X100 irons S400 wedges, PX 6.5 irons PX 6.0 wedges. For those who play the same shafts i.e. X100 3-LW some put the 8 iron shafts in the SW-LW. I have never head of going up 10 CPM's in flex. An 8 iron only have 1/2" step difference than a 9-PW shaft in a DG or KBS.
[/quote]

I am not the one who came up with it and don't fully comprehend the physics behind it, but Howard stated that it is something to do with butt trimming the Rifle/PX as much as is needed to do this makes them play softer to flex. Something along the lines that since they (PX) are so butt stiff that when you trim that much off the stiffest part of the shaft you are effectively weakening 2 full flexes. I do not know if that is the same with other manufacturers but I would assume it is similar, since the butt is the stiffest part of the shaft regardless. Using your example; If the KBS hi-rev is a 7 iron shaft which you can see via steps as you say (and I trust you) however is 5 grams heavier, I would assume they are using the next flex up to achieve that. My 'proof' to that (again not scientific lol) is if you look at the weights of a stiff Hi-rev at 125 grams, the Tour stiff at 120 and the tour S+ at 125 grams it seems to suggest that...then factor in that the KBS' are not as butt stiff as PX and we might have the answer??? Hopefully someone smarter than me and more familiar with the methodology will chime in. I can't figure out where the Hi-rev X is coming from weighing in at 135 unless those are the weight sorted Tour X that were on the high side of the weight scale.



Just my .02

Where does the name Tiger stepping come from? I always thought (hell, i know he used to) use just S400 in his wedges.

[quote name='Raidersgolf99' timestamp='1332616558' post='4570854']
Not the thread jack, but this topic really interests me, so to anybody that can offer a suggestion, please do.
So, you play C-Taper X flex soft stepped once, in 4-P.
How would you approach shafting a 54* and 58* using the "Tiger-Stepping" process? ... .
Thanks for the guidance and advice.
[/quote]

My experience and research on some of this would hint towards having to tip trim an 8 iron shaft for this combo. The c-tapers I would assume (please don't shoot me) play similar to PX in terms of butt stiffness...at least that's what it sounds like from peoples reviews (I have not personally hit them). Since you are already at the top of their flex scale with the X then you would 'probably' need to tip trim an 8 iron shaft the correct amount to make it play a flex or two stronger then butt trim to length from there. Now don't ask me how much or if you should use an 8 or 7 iron shaft (like KBS does for the Hi-rev) because I am not an expert....again maybe one will chime in. However if I was you, couldn't get an answer and had a little money/time to tinker with I would do this; Since you already SS your shafts once I would take an 8 iron X then tip it 1" and see how it goes. If you are worried about that being too stiff/sacrificing a shaft you could try 1/2" tip leave the shaft 1/2" long then throw on a cheap grip and try it out. If it needs more stiffening then tip the other 1/2" if not then butt trim the remaining 1/2" and all you lost was a cheap grip!!

[b]*** Edit forgot about something...can't tip trim a taper...doh, that throws that concept out lol. Maybe a parallel tip shaft so that you can and bore out the hosel??? Does KBS even make a .370 tip C-Taper? Paging Howard Jones hahhaa ***
[/b]


Nate

[quote name='npark' timestamp='1332691985' post='4575528']
[quote name='Raidersgolf99' timestamp='1332616558' post='4570854']
Not the thread jack, but this topic really interests me, so to anybody that can offer a suggestion, please do.
So, you play C-Taper X flex soft stepped once, in 4-P.
How would you approach shafting a 54* and 58* using the "Tiger-Stepping" process? ... .
Thanks for the guidance and advice.
[/quote]

My experience and research on some of this would hint towards having to tip trim an 8 iron shaft for this combo. The c-tapers I would assume (please don't shoot me) play similar to PX in terms of butt stiffness...at least that's what it sounds like from peoples reviews (I have not personally hit them). Since you are already at the top of their flex scale with the X then you would 'probably' need to tip trim an 8 iron shaft the correct amount to make it play a flex or two stronger then butt trim to length from there. Now don't ask me how much or if you should use an 8 or 7 iron shaft (like KBS does for the Hi-rev) because I am not an expert....again maybe one will chime in. However if I was you, couldn't get an answer and had a little money/time to tinker with I would do this; Since you already SS your shafts once I would take an 8 iron X then tip it 1" and see how it goes. If you are worried about that being too stiff/sacrificing a shaft you could try 1/2" tip leave the shaft 1/2" long then throw on a cheap grip and try it out. If it needs more stiffening then tip the other 1/2" if not then butt trim the remaining 1/2" and all you lost was a cheap grip!!

[b]*** Edit forgot about something...can't tip trim a taper...doh, that throws that concept out lol. Maybe a parallel tip shaft so that you can and bore out the hosel??? Does KBS even make a .370 tip C-Taper? Paging Howard Jones hahhaa ***
[/b]
Nate
[/quote]

Haha....yes the strongest players dont have this option, but they dont have to much problems to get spin either, but yes, you can tip trim taper shafts, but if you take to much, you will have problems with hosel fit, but if the parallel tip section is long enough, a ream job up to 0.370 might be the way to go, and then you just trim a taper as much as you got tip to trim.
(remember to have tip enough for the ferrule to, or drop it, if you go to the extreme)
3/8 is no problem without doing anything to the hosel, but 3/8 will not give more than 2-4 cpms, depending on the shaft.
On standard sets, where DG tapers is in use, and the player is playing his GW to full swing, i use the same SW value all the way up to the GW, and the GW always get 3/8 or 1/4 tip trim if possible. This way you can maintain CPM progression all the way up, if you use 0.5 shorter on both PW and GW. DG X-100 players can use the Tour X7 #8 shaft, or have a Rifle spinner made from 7.5 blanks. (Rifle blanks are only available in PFC centers, and is NOT a high launch shaft in the strong flexes)
In most cases the regular True Temper spinner PLUS is a good match as a spinner shaft for DG X100 players, but the PX 6.5 spinner is a nice shaft for both PX 5.5 and PX 6.0 players, who wants more stop on their wedges.

How did you prep the shaft? All butt trimming?

[quote name='Chappie' timestamp='1332700734' post='4576260']
How did you prep the shaft? All butt trimming?
[/quote]

#8 iron shaft, butt trim to length, where start flex is 10 cpm stronger than irons, thats it.

Howard,
So essentially, what I'd need to do with the CTapers for a 54 and 58 degree is...
8 iron shafts, X flex, tip trim 1/2" to 1", then butt trim to length??
Am I correct on that?
Thanks, Howard, I do appreciate it!

[quote name='npark' timestamp='1332691985' post='4575528']
[quote name='Raidersgolf99' timestamp='1332616558' post='4570854']
Not the thread jack, but this topic really interests me, so to anybody that can offer a suggestion, please do.
So, you play C-Taper X flex soft stepped once, in 4-P.
How would you approach shafting a 54* and 58* using the "Tiger-Stepping" process? ... .
Thanks for the guidance and advice.
[/quote]

My experience and research on some of this would hint towards having to tip trim an 8 iron shaft for this combo. The c-tapers I would assume (please don't shoot me) play similar to PX in terms of butt stiffness...at least that's what it sounds like from peoples reviews (I have not personally hit them). Since you are already at the top of their flex scale with the X then you would 'probably' need to tip trim an 8 iron shaft the correct amount to make it play a flex or two stronger then butt trim to length from there. Now don't ask me how much or if you should use an 8 or 7 iron shaft (like KBS does for the Hi-rev) because I am not an expert....again maybe one will chime in. However if I was you, couldn't get an answer and had a little money/time to tinker with I would do this; Since you already SS your shafts once I would take an 8 iron X then tip it 1" and see how it goes. If you are worried about that being too stiff/sacrificing a shaft you could try 1/2" tip leave the shaft 1/2" long then throw on a cheap grip and try it out. If it needs more stiffening then tip the other 1/2" if not then butt trim the remaining 1/2" and all you lost was a cheap grip!!

[b]*** Edit forgot about something...can't tip trim a taper...doh, that throws that concept out lol. Maybe a parallel tip shaft so that you can and bore out the hosel??? Does KBS even make a .370 tip C-Taper? Paging Howard Jones hahhaa ***
[/b]


Nate
[/quote]

You can tip trim taper tips, just really need to know what you're doing. They used to tip trim tapers for Tiger.

[quote name='Raidersgolf99' timestamp='1332703764' post='4576574']
Howard,
So essentially, what I'd need to do with the CTapers for a 54 and 58 degree is...
8 iron shafts, X flex, tip trim 1/2" to 1", then butt trim to length??
Am I correct on that?
Thanks, Howard, I do appreciate it!
[/quote]
Sounds right might try this out

Is used to play hardstepped KBS Tours. In all taper shafts the 9-PW are the same so when I hardstep to avoid having the 8-PW the same step I tip the 9-PW shafts 1/2" without problems fitting.

I was at Vokey last week and I think tour guys are just putting #8 iron shafts straight in their SW-LW. The step is 1/2" higher than their 9-PW and with the heavier swingweights of the SW-LW they play a bit softer.