Hogan had a baseball swing

Fact.

You will anger again the low and left guys...lol

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1348803564' post='5708787']
You will anger again the low and left guys...lol
[/quote]

Why?

I'm for sure low and left guy and totally agree with TD about this.

Lol...a baseball player swings low and left visually because the ball are elevated at hip level. If you move the ball with your body following suit, how can that be low and left? And you agree with TD?...lol

It's left, but it ain't low.

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1348807882' post='5709139']
Lol...a baseball player swings low and left visually because the ball are elevated at hip level. If you move the ball with your body following suit, how can that be low and left? And you agree with TD?...lol
[/quote]

There is not at all conflict with those two things. You are still missing the most relevant thing. It's low and left for hands but not for the club head. They don't follow each other

[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1348807984' post='5709145']
It's left, but it ain't low.
[/quote]

It's as low as possible. In reality hands start to rise already before the impact, but player swings those as low as possible.

If hand starts to rise before impact, that means your clubhead is under plane which means you'll hit the ground fat/hard if you don't raise the handle. Mr. Hogan didn't do that at all. In fact his upper center even lowers. The low and left release conscious intent is a way to remedy that exactly. Another thing it remedies is a more out to in swing path due to the conscious intent in transition of immediately turning the upper body/shoulders instead of the hips in a rotary-lateral manner.

Tee its so obvious in your swing I am amazed you can't get this at all. And its not due to your injuries. It is a setup thing.

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1348808851' post='5709189']
If hand starts to rise before impact, that means your clubhead is under plane which means you'll hit the ground fat/hard if you don't raise the handle. Mr. Hogan didn't do that at all. In fact his upper center even lowers. The low and left release conscious intent is a way to remedy that exactly. Another thing it remedies is a more out to in swing path due to the conscious intent in transition of immediately turning the upper body/shoulders instead of the hips in a rotary-lateral manner.

Tee its so obvious in your swing I am amazed you can't get this at all. And its not due to your injuries. It is a setup thing.
[/quote]

I have been measuring more than 1000 players and has seen maybe few who's left wrist is not rising before impact and those few are not good players. And that got absolutely nothing to do with under plane or about anything else you mentioned. Actually keeping the hands even at level through impact is quite impossible and requires body movements that are not at all good for golf swing.

And this got nothing to do with my swing. Nothing.

Trying to swing the hands low and left is not Hogan . The thought has been around for ages , used by mostly players who have a plane line heading rightwards with a combo of coming down a steeper plane aka shoulder plane and a handle raise , to try to get at a cp release . For them , the feeling can be like the left wrist **** never goes away . Underground morad !
For guys who shift it out a bit and get on the lower plane aka elbow , no need for any funny business with the low left hands!

I'm saying if you don't do something with that handle dragging stuff at setup, you'll forever be a handle dragger. Measure Hogan. He's not handle dragging to avoid the ground. He fixed that at address. Your own setup shows us that you don't get it Tee.

[quote name='doram101' timestamp='1348810605' post='5709253']
Trying to swing the hands low and left is not Hogan . The thought has been around for ages , used by mostly players who have a plane line heading rightwards with a combo of coming down a steeper plane aka shoulder plane and a handle raise , to try to get at a cp release . For them , the feeling can be like the left wrist **** never goes away . Underground morad !
For guys who shift it out a bit and get on the lower plane aka elbow , no need for any funny business with the low left hands!
[/quote]

Shift out=move baseline bit left?

Trying to swing the hands low and left is not Hogan . The thought has been around for ages , used by mostly players who have a plane line heading rightwards with a combo of coming down a steeper plane aka shoulder plane and a handle raise , to try to get at a cp release . For them , the feeling can be like the left wrist **** never goes away . Underground morad !

For guys who shift it out a bit and get on the lower plane aka elbow , no need for any funny business with the low left hands!

I'm talking about guys who look like Hogan at and after impact and they all got their hands going strongly left already at impact and that had to happen also in Hogans swing. And that has been confirmed by 3D measurement, not from some low fps video.

When you get that, also reason for bent right wrist and elbow gets clear and obvious explanation. There is no other way to make that combination work.

Right after this both, Hogan and Snead got their hands disappear behind their body and that's low and left relative to the guys who sling their hands out like Ricky Fowler. These great players hands just follows the natural way of the hand path when keeping the body rotate. Just opposite for those who had to stall and by that keep the hands moving toward the target or even out. Have seen lot of those, and not too many with hands going left... only the best ones ;)

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1348810789' post='5709267']
I'm saying if you don't do something with that handle dragging stuff at setup, you'll forever be a handle dragger. Measure Hogan. He's not handle dragging to avoid the ground. He fixed that at address. Your own setup shows us that you don't get it Tee.
[/quote]

OMG... got absolutely nothing to do with handle dragging. ZERO! That rise of the hands is just simple geometry and has to happen. And it also got nothing to do with the shaft plane or disconnection. Just pure geometry when the whole left side is rising.

Lol

Lol

Yep... that's usual word when running out of real arguments.

This is how it changes when understood correctly

And this is the result of the change

So you want us to worry about those things you're saying during impact zone? Why not adjust your grip/setup to avoid the ground? This way you eliminate clubhead under plane issue and don't need to raise the handle. Then you tweak your pivot to make the shoulder turn plane more inclined which results the shift out doram101 talks about? So you both eliminate worrying about the handle nor keeping the L wristc0ck, and then you get the clubhead to move more DTL without disconnecting (bit shift out and more inclined shoulder turn) and at same time shallow the AoA (elbow plane and pivot)?

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1348813905' post='5709413']
So you want us to worry about those things you're saying during impact zone? Why not adjust your grip/setup to avoid the ground? This way you eliminate clubhead under plane issue and don't need to raise the handle. Then you tweak your pivot to make the shoulder turn plane more inclined which results the shift out doram101 talks about? So you both eliminate worrying about the handle nor keeping the L wristc0ck, and then you get the clubhead to move more DTL without disconnecting (bit shift out and more inclined shoulder turn) and at same time shallow the AoA (elbow plane and pivot)?
[/quote]

Because this all got absolutely nothing to do with me or my swing. I'm talking about good players, not about one old fat man who hasn't been doing anything to his game for last 10 years and who got big problems at right shoulder/scapula area.

HG, when can we see your swing. Lot of talking, nothing showed to us. Why?

Trying to swing the hands low and left is not Hogan . The thought has been around for ages , used by mostly players who have a plane line heading rightwards with a combo of coming down a steeper plane aka shoulder plane and a handle raise , to try to get at a cp release . For them , the feeling can be like the left wrist **** never goes away . Underground morad !

For guys who shift it out a bit and get on the lower plane aka elbow , no need for any funny business with the low left hands!

 

I'm talking about guys who look like Hogan at and after impact and they all got their hands going strongly left already at impact and that had to happen also in Hogans swing. And that has been confirmed by 3D measurement, not from some low fps vi

When you get that, also reason for bent right wrist and elbow gets clear and obvious explanation. There is no other way to make that combination work.

 

 

Right after this both, Hogan and Snead got their hands disappear behind their body and that's low and left relative to the guys who sling their hands out like Ricky Fowler. These great players hands just follows the natural way of the hand path when keeping the body rotate. Just opposite for those who had to stall and by that keep the hands moving toward the target or even out. Have seen lot of those, and not too many with hands going left... only the best ones ;)

What you are saying is that you base your 3 d measurements of guys you think are in hogans position at those points and are stating with authority that is hogan must have done it! I'm sorry but your aurguement holds no credibility , since you have no measurements of hogan , neither does 3 d system measure what torques or muscles are doing in a swing .You, Like everyone else ..the only access to hogan is visual footage of the so called 2 dim grainy films that you highlighted to make your aurguement seem knowledgable . All you did was contradict yourself

Nobody mentioned fowler or handle raisers with a rightwards path as being hogan either , but he could be an example of someone who may try to do the hands wiping left , why would he though he makes millions

@hogangolf

Yes,Baseline left , btw Snead shifts more than Hogan

[quote name='doram101' timestamp='1348814861' post='5709425']


What you are saying is that you base your 3 d measurements of guys you think are in hogans position at those points and are stating with authority that is hogan must have done it! I'm sorry but your aurguement holds no credibility , since you have no measurements of hogan , neither does 3 d system measure what torques or muscles are doing in a swing .You, Like everyone else ..the only access to hogan is visual footage of the so called 2 dim grainy films that you highlighted to make your aurguement seem knowledgable . All you did was contradict yourself


[/quote]

If the visual view is the same, there is not much difference also in measurements, or at least I haven't seen yet.

We all can see clearly that Hogans hands were disappearing behind him much earlier than guys whos hands are moving toward the target from DTL. And everything in that is simple and logical when we understand that the hand speed is main factor for most relevant things in golf swing. Both, for accuracy and power. It got no difference to any other sport.

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1348815854' post='5709445']
[quote name='doram101' timestamp='1348814861' post='5709425']


What you are saying is that you base your 3 d measurements of guys you think are in hogans position at those points and are stating with authority that is hogan must have done it! I'm sorry but your aurguement holds no credibility , since you have no measurements of hogan , neither does 3 d system measure what torques or muscles are doing in a swing .You, Like everyone else ..the only access to hogan is visual footage of the so called 2 dim grainy films that you highlighted to make your aurguement seem knowledgable . All you did was contradict yourself


[/quote]

If the visual view is the same, there is not much difference also in measurements, or at least I haven't seen yet.

[/quote]

Sorry , but I can't understand your logic , it's a complete contradiction again! Stay with me for 10 secs , on one hand you complain about posters opinion on what Hogan did from a grainy 2 dim film yet you make claims as such above!
In a nutshell you are really trying to state that a grainy green picture of the student above is in a similar position to hogan at that point in his swing and therefore the measurements will be basically the same and therefore Hogan must have done it the same way , right?
Are we on the same page here?

[quote name='doram101' timestamp='1348819952' post='5709539']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1348815854' post='5709445']
[quote name='doram101' timestamp='1348814861' post='5709425']
What you are saying is that you base your 3 d measurements of guys you think are in hogans position at those points and are stating with authority that is hogan must have done it! I'm sorry but your aurguement holds no credibility , since you have no measurements of hogan , neither does 3 d system measure what torques or muscles are doing in a swing .You, Like everyone else ..the only access to hogan is visual footage of the so called 2 dim grainy films that you highlighted to make your aurguement seem knowledgable . All you did was contradict yourself


[/quote]

If the visual view is the same, there is not much difference also in measurements, or at least I haven't seen yet.

[/quote]

Sorry , but I can't understand your logic , it's a complete contradiction again! Stay with me for 10 secs , on one hand you complain about posters opinion on what Hogan did from a grainy 2 dim film yet you make claims as such above!
In a nutshell you are really trying to state that a grainy green picture of the student above is in a similar position to hogan at that point in his swing and therefore the measurements will be basically the same and therefore Hogan must have done it the same way , right?
Are we on the same page here?
[/quote]

That was only one image and as I have been spending thousands of hours watching those from different players at high speed videos synchronized with graphs, I can say I understand something about that connection as I can take easily exactly the same orientation or position to compare shots.

That's why I like more those good quality still pictures instead of videos to look at.

I just wonder how some people got problems to see it as it is so obvious no matter how you look at it. Hands go first toward the target line, then they turn to go down and left by body rotation and club head stays outside of that path long way through and face is staying square also to the target. No hitec, mo mystery, just simple geometry to learn.

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1348814512' post='5709419']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1348813905' post='5709413']
So you want us to worry about those things you're saying during impact zone? Why not adjust your grip/setup to avoid the ground? This way you eliminate clubhead under plane issue and don't need to raise the handle. Then you tweak your pivot to make the shoulder turn plane more inclined which results the shift out doram101 talks about? So you both eliminate worrying about the handle nor keeping the L wristc0ck, and then you get the clubhead to move more DTL without disconnecting (bit shift out and more inclined shoulder turn) and at same time shallow the AoA (elbow plane and pivot)?
[/quote]

Because this all got absolutely nothing to do with me or my swing. I'm talking about good players, not about one old fat man who hasn't been doing anything to his game for last 10 years and who got big problems at right shoulder/scapula area.

HG, when can we see your swing. Lot of talking, nothing showed to us. Why?
[/quote]



this is what i like about this guy, he says this has nothing to do with his swing or him yet in the very next sentence he asks to see HG's swing , as if that has any relevance to this...lol!


he uses the same grainy 2d still pics that he says are no good when it doesn't suit his agenda, he thinks these pics verify what Hogan did just by eyeballing it. where is your collection of Hogan's measurements that you have taken so we can see the comparison of those to your students and other so called Hogan clones?

We all see that, except I don't see the face staying square to the target line , but the hands are not going low , what has been stated is ... From what I read , is that it's how it happens is the debate !

Here is your thought out responses to hogangolf 101

Post 3 I'm a low and left guy !! Yet on post 6 , 7 , 9 ( you can look it up) you contradict yourself totally in regard to low and left ! What's with that? I'm confused .

Why you mention the 1000 golfers measured constantly is again , useless , since you or anyone Has never measured Hogan

[quote name='ray ray' timestamp='1348821717' post='5709575']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1348814512' post='5709419']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1348813905' post='5709413']
So you want us to worry about those things you're saying during impact zone? Why not adjust your grip/setup to avoid the ground? This way you eliminate clubhead under plane issue and don't need to raise the handle. Then you tweak your pivot to make the shoulder turn plane more inclined which results the shift out doram101 talks about? So you both eliminate worrying about the handle nor keeping the L wristc0ck, and then you get the clubhead to move more DTL without disconnecting (bit shift out and more inclined shoulder turn) and at same time shallow the AoA (elbow plane and pivot)?
[/quote]

Because this all got absolutely nothing to do with me or my swing. I'm talking about good players, not about one old fat man who hasn't been doing anything to his game for last 10 years and who got big problems at right shoulder/scapula area.

HG, when can we see your swing. Lot of talking, nothing showed to us. Why?
[/quote]



this is what i like about this guy, he says this has nothing to do with his swing or him yet in the very next sentence he asks to see HG's swing , as if that has any relevance to this...lol!


he uses the same grainy 2d still pics that he says are no good when it doesn't suit his agenda, he thinks these pics verify what Hogan did just by eyeballing it. where is your collection of Hogan's measurements that you have taken so we can see the comparison of those to your students and other so called Hogan clones?
[/quote]

Don't need lot of understanding to see the difference from pictures. Not at all if you look body parts relations to each others.

And where have I said 2D pictures are not good to see it? Are you still confusing 2D and video?

[quote name='doram101' timestamp='1348821977' post='5709579']
We all see that, except I don't see the face staying square to the target line , but the hands are not going low , what has been stated is ... From what I read , is that it's how it happens is the debate !

Here is your thought out responses to hogangolf 101

Post 3 I'm a low and left guy !! Yet on post 6 , 7 , 9 ( you can look it up) you contradict yourself totally in regard to low and left ! What's with that? I'm confused .

Why you mention the 1000 golfers measured constantly is again , useless , since you or anyone Has never measured Hogan
[/quote]

Lol...so Tapio, before impact you swing low and left, but make sure it's rising?!...lol

No, think I misunderstood...you make the L wrist go away from target in transition, then get it down closer to the targetline, the once down enough you make it riiiiiise...then while rising you swing left...but loooow...take note: rising, but loooow...

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1348803564' post='5708787']
You will anger again the low and left guys...lol
[/quote]

Actually not...because that's what they've been saying all along.

That Hogan...and other one-plane/body-rotation swingers...swing the club AROUND their body.

Jim Hardy had it right. This swing is basically a BASEBALL swing tipped over until it reaches the ground.

Or as I've likened it to....A baseball hitter hitting a low-and-outside fastball back up the middle.

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1348832361' post='5709831']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1348803564' post='5708787']
You will anger again the low and left guys...lol
[/quote]

Actually not...because that's what they've been saying all along.

That Hogan...and other one-plane/body-rotation swingers...swing the club AROUND their body.

Jim Hardy had it right. This swing is basically a BASEBALL swing tipped over until it reaches the ground.

Or as I've likened it to....A baseball hitter hitting a low-and-outside fastball back up the middle.
[/quote]

That's more like it...AROUND...around the thoracic and cervical spine/tilt.

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1348807882' post='5709139']
Lol...a baseball player swings low and left visually because the ball are elevated at hip level. If you move the ball with your body following suit, how can that be low and left? And you agree with TD?...lol
[/quote]

Because swinging the club around your body makes the club APPEAR to move lower-and-more-to-the-left than it does in two-plane golf swings that are based around more of an athletic throwing motion. Where the club...in the follow through...appears to move higher and to the right.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swCYoF9b9PI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swCYoF9b9PI[/url]

Versus

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFAaYNylSGM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFAaYNylSGM[/url]