Anyone seen this or read the ebook?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWvXLbJfZE8&feature=g-all-lgv

Anyone seen this or read the ebook?

 

 

No, but the frames at 1:52 in the Hogan video show that Hogan was not trying to keep the triangle open, but rather trying to close it hard and fast.

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1349898395' post='5777337']
No, but the frames at 1:52 in the Hogan video show that Hogan was not trying to keep the triangle open, but rather trying to close it hard and fast.
[/quote]

LOL...


Excactly at 1:52 we can see how he keeps the triangle open. Thanks MJ

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1349899096' post='5777415']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1349898395' post='5777337']
No, but the frames at 1:52 in the Hogan video show that Hogan was not trying to keep the triangle open, but rather trying to close it hard and fast.
[/quote]

LOL...


Excactly at 1:52 we can see how he keeps the triangle open. Thanks MJ
[/quote]

Tee, I'm not saying the right elbow is not under the left forearm at impact, but that is simply a postion that he swings through with the intention of closing the triangle hard and fast way before that. It's a consequence of opening the triangle so much from very beginning of the BS.

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1349899096' post='5777415']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1349898395' post='5777337']
No, but the frames at 1:52 in the Hogan video show that Hogan was not trying to keep the triangle open, but rather trying to close it hard and fast.
[/quote]

LOL...


Excactly at 1:52 we can see how he keeps the triangle open. Thanks MJ
[/quote]





SWEET JESUS!!!!!!!!!

Do you have to start this crap already???????

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1349899096' post='5777415']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1349898395' post='5777337']
No, but the frames at 1:52 in the Hogan video show that Hogan was not trying to keep the triangle open, but rather trying to close it hard and fast.
[/quote]

LOL...




Excactly at 1:52 we can see how he keeps the triangle open. Thanks MJ
[/quote]


TeeAce, I'm tired of your one liners. Really. Please explain and prove your point or turn your computer off. Thank you.

+1000, but y'all knew that already...agree with Mizjoe

 

 

Tee, I'm not saying the right elbow is not under the left forearm at impact, but that is simply a postion that he swings through with the intention of closing the triangle hard and fast way before that. It's a consequence of opening the triangle so much from very beginning of the BS.

I dont know why this image wasn't in my post, but now it's here

And I think you haven't understood what I mean with that opening. It's the relation between the elbow line and shoulder line. Not at all shoulder line to the target line. At that moment the triangle seems to be about 40 degrees open as I've seen some with 10 degrees closed.

[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1349904514' post='5777859']


TeeAce, I'm tired of your one liners. Really. Please explain and prove your point or turn your computer off. Thank you.
[/quote]

Sorry Chiva, but some how the picture dropped somewhere as it was the main story. Didn't mean it like that.

Can we get a new Sub-sub forum called "Hogan Did/Didn't Keep the Triangle Open" so I can stop reading this s***.!?!?

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1349974516' post='5781325']
Can we get a new Sub-sub forum called "Hogan Did/Didn't Keep the Triangle Open" so I can stop reading this s***.!?!?
[/quote]

At least Moe got his triangle well open in your avatar : D

Sorry... i couldn't resist

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1349974730' post='5781335']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1349974516' post='5781325']
Can we get a new Sub-sub forum called "Hogan Did/Didn't Keep the Triangle Open" so I can stop reading this s***.!?!?
[/quote]

At least Moe got his triangle well open in your avatar : D

Sorry... i couldn't resist
[/quote]

I dont think yuou want to go there b/c hard core supination is coming next....

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1349976004' post='5781435']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1349974730' post='5781335']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1349974516' post='5781325']
Can we get a new Sub-sub forum called "Hogan Did/Didn't Keep the Triangle Open" so I can stop reading this s***.!?!?
[/quote]

At least Moe got his triangle well open in your avatar : D

Sorry... i couldn't resist
[/quote]

I dont think yuou want to go there b/c hard core supination is coming next....
[/quote]

Your avatar is clear proof of what I'm saying!

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1349978366' post='5781645']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1349976004' post='5781435']


I dont think yuou want to go there b/c hard core supination is coming next....
[/quote]

Your avatar is clear proof of what I'm saying!
[/quote]

Damn.. he changed it

Sorry but I couldnt resist !

I kinda see what you guys are talking about. I think the idea of putting your arms in a specific position though can be seen as 'steering the ball' and of course end up with a result much less desired. I think the 'big muscles' might be where 'it's' at. For some reason Hogan's swing 'appears' very flat and shallow and on a plane that looks so natural the body is always in a comfortable position. My guess is Hogan's right shoulder goes away from the ball shallow and takes the arms with it. The 'secret right knee' provides a brace to not allow it to be too shallow and eliminates the 'infamous sway and/or reverse pivot.' The forward motion of the shoulder is less dramatic in terms of tilt. We all know the spine angle has to be altered to allow for weight transfer and proper angle of attack. The right shoulder comes back in even more shallow, thus allowing the arms to be delayed with the 'lag' that is applied with a gap between the lead arm and chest. That gap seems to be key because if too much torque is applied to the lead arm, the 'release' will be too early resulting in a casting OTT motion.

I'm rooting for 'two turns' with a braced right knee.

JBOMB, let me look it other way.

As I talk here a lot about lines and position, it's only because we are watching images here, but my daily teaching and coaching is built quite different way. It's based on tensions and dynamics and those are things I talk to people. And that's what I was talking in Hogan&Trevino thread. I want people to feel those things, not to put themselves to some positions.

Now think the transition and how you want to start down. Usual way for hackers is that they start to release those tensions from transition, as I want those tensions grow higher until it's not possible to resist them any more. So all the later circles are going to the opposite direction than those "inner" circles. Hips are opening but shoulders keep going back, The shoulders are opening even they try to resist it and the left arm still works across of them, the triangle of the arms is working against that also by bringing the right elbow toward the target line and low, instead of letting it get over the left.

The Hogan photo at the other topic is not perfect, as I see his right elbow being behind of his back, but I believe he is showing the same thing there. The flattening of the club is not a plane or path thing, its twisting the body to the position where all tensions get maximized and ready to release. All those muscles used for hitting as hard you can are extended and ready to give all they got.

It's not about micro moves, even they are part of that in reality. It's not in plane or positions. It's to get your body, core and hands to the position that they will work best through the impact as reaction, not as an action. Like in every other sport.

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1350019287' post='5784175']
It's not about micro moves, even they are part of that in reality. It's not in plane or positions.[/quote]

Exactly...but for the sake of analysis...and training; all of the above are extremely necessary to pay attention to

A micro move is a micro move until it is a learned behavior.

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1350022069' post='5784235']


Exactly...but for the sake of analysis...and training; all of the above are extremely necessary to pay attention to

A micro move is a micro move until it is a learned behavior.
[/quote]

For sure, but they have to be learned as a part of the whole system. No meaning to open the triangle when other parts of the body are in wrong positions because you create the wrong feeling to your body. IMO when learning those, you need to start from ground up and from inner circles, then adding outer parts when they are ready.

We are just starting our off season practice here. First two months it's mainly rubber band and dumbbells

As far as this triangle 'business', is that something related to 'keeping the hands inside of the club' on the BS? I noticed on a lot of Hogan's address position, he sets his hands behind the ball ala Fred Couples instead of the opposite of a person who positions 'in' the forward press ala Corey Pavin.

If you do keep the hands inside of the club on the way back, it seems to put tension on 'resisting' the release instead of 'forcing' it.

As far as this triangle 'business', is that something related to 'keeping the hands inside of the club' on the BS? I noticed on a lot of Hogan's address position, he sets his hands behind the ball ala Fred Couples instead of the opposite of a person who positions 'in' the forward press ala Corey Pavin.

 

If you do keep the hands inside of the club on the way back, it seems to put tension on 'resisting' the release instead of 'forcing' it.

What? I have to say I didn't understand at all what this triangle thing has to do with what you said.

Triangle is actually the elbow line in relation to the shoulder line. It's simple to see at impact and bit hard to see in 3D at the other points, but nothing more complicated there.

Triangle square = line between elbows is parallel to the shoulder line

Triangle closed = elbow line pointing more left than shoulder line

Triangle open= elbow line points more right than shoulder line

First image it's square, second it has opened

So... if players shoulders are 20 degrees open at impact and elbow line points to the target, the triangle is 20 degrees open.

As far as this triangle 'business', is that something related to 'keeping the hands inside of the club' on the BS? I noticed on a lot of Hogan's address position, he sets his hands behind the ball ala Fred Couples instead of the opposite of a person who positions 'in' the forward press ala Corey Pavin.

 

If you do keep the hands inside of the club on the way back, it seems to put tension on 'resisting' the release instead of 'forcing' it.

 

What? I have to say I didn't understand at all what this triangle thing has to do with what you said.

 

Triangle is actually the elbow line in relation to the shoulder line. It's simple to see at impact and bit hard to see in 3D at the other points, but nothing more complicated there.

 

Triangle square = line between elbows is parallel to the shoulder line

Triangle closed = elbow line pointing more left than shoulder line

Triangle open= elbow line points more right than shoulder line

 

First image it's square, second it has opened

 

 

So... if players shoulders are 20 degrees open at impact and elbow line points to the target, the triangle is 20 degrees open.

Holy cow! No wonder we disagree on this triangle stuff, we're talking about completely different things.

As far as this triangle 'business', is that something related to 'keeping the hands inside of the club' on the BS? I noticed on a lot of Hogan's address position, he sets his hands behind the ball ala Fred Couples instead of the opposite of a person who positions 'in' the forward press ala Corey Pavin.

 

If you do keep the hands inside of the club on the way back, it seems to put tension on 'resisting' the release instead of 'forcing' it.

 

What? I have to say I didn't understand at all what this triangle thing has to do with what you said.

 

Triangle is actually the elbow line in relation to the shoulder line. It's simple to see at impact and bit hard to see in 3D at the other points, but nothing more complicated there.

 

Triangle square = line between elbows is parallel to the shoulder line

Triangle closed = elbow line pointing more left than shoulder line

Triangle open= elbow line points more right than shoulder line

 

First image it's square, second it has opened

 

 

So... if players shoulders are 20 degrees open at impact and elbow line points to the target, the triangle is 20 degrees open.

 

Holy cow! No wonder we disagree on this triangle stuff, we're talking about completely different things.

No problem MJ, I think 99% of those who disagree with me about that has understood it wrong way. And those in 1% just want to argue :D

WTF!?!?

Is TEE trying to change a years' worth of arguing in one sentence?

AND WHY would we assume this is what an open triagle means, when the whole context of this argument came up in the snead thread where the OP said that Snead said Hogan never turned his right hand over left? Isn't the "forearms set" the triangle what have been talking about?!?!

I don't get what just happened.

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1350067669' post='5785997']
WTF!?!?

Is TEE trying to change a years' worth of arguing in one sentence?

AND WHY would we assume this is what an open triagle means, when the whole context of this argument came up in the snead thread where the OP said that Snead said Hogan never turned his right hand over left? Arent the forearms set the triangle what have been talking about?!?!

I don't get what just happened.
[/quote]

That's how it goes EJ

When the right elbow stays inside and under the left, right hand cant rise over the left. What happens later after impact is totally different story.

WOuldnt a guy with punch elbow create a more open elbow line in relation to the shoulder's according to TEe's defintion. Based on what Tee said the best ball strikers have open triangles, so is he advocating punch elbow? Look at the picture. Put that right elbow more in front and angle gets smaller. This makes 0 sense to me.

alpha and beta torque, that's what that is, in the plane and the start of through the plane. no secret, no mystery just the start of steepening the shaft, especially if you have flattened it in the b.s./transition. more line drawing that doesn't really explain anything, it's like the bermuda triangle of line drawing...lol!

it helps if you know the torques and forces then you have an understanding of what the golfer is doing to the club and you don't have to get into the bermuda "triangle"

just teeace making people think he has discovered something that Prof. S. Nesbit wrote a whole scientific paper about years ago on the handpath.

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1350068425' post='5786057']
WOuldnt a guy with punch elbow create a more open elbow line in relation to the shoulder's according to TEe's defintion. Based on what Tee said the best ball strikers have open triangles, so is he advocating punch elbow? Look at the picture. Put that right elbow more in front and angle gets smaller. This makes 0 sense to me.
[/quote]

That doesn't really effect that much. It can make left elbow move farther from the body and more toward the target line and the line can still point to the same direction. That's what we talked in some other thread that left arm separates from the body and then comes closer again when rotation starts.

And I'm actually look more the impact position and also talk about muscular action to that direction all the way through. And I like pitch elbow much more than punch, but dont really use those terms. External rotation of the right shoulder is something I'm more familiar with.

Tee's new lines are saying the same thing I think, he still advocates a clockwise opening of the forearms in the downswing to offset the pivot, regardless of how he defines "Triangle." It is not a terrible idea, just not necessarily what Hogan said he was doing (according to that speech).