Hogan's Club Specs Got Me Thinking

Hey--Just read Peter Kostis' piece on Golf.com where he tells about having the chance to play a round with Ben Hogan's last set of clubs. It's a really fascinating article but it brings up some very interesting questions.

Kostis describes Hogan's clubs as setting up 'at least 3 degrees open' with a flat lie angle.

It made me think of the iconic drawing of Mr. Hogans hands gripping the golf club in 5 Lessons. Since I was 12 I could see that image in my sleep. I could replicate it in a mirror so that you could not tell whose hands were whose.

I had the sweetest looking grip to ever achieve the 11-way miss.

So it never worked for me. Which launched my obsession of finding a repeatable way of attaching my hands to the golf club -- a way to marry my hands to the club that would allow my good swing to happen.

After nearly 30 years I think I may be getting close--but I've felt that way exactly 752 times.

That being said, my endless tinkering has gotten me to scratch and I KNOW it's still not exactly right.

Ben Hogan's grip served exactly one purpose -- It was constructed to produce and, more importantly, replicate how and from what angle he wanted attack the golf ball. It was born not only of his body type but also by his swing philosophy and the specs of his equipment. He achieved a grip that ALLOWED his hands do what he visualized.

It's well documented that Ben Hogan despised the hook. He remedied his phobia in many ways. Not the least of which,apparently, was that he was swinging clubs that were 3 DEGREES OPEN!

I cannot even venture a guess as to how many hours I wasted standing in front of a mirror as a kid learning a grip that, with a normal club, would hit the ball well to the right of Attila the Hun. Although, to be truthful, as a 15 year old who played golf I wasn't exactly burning up the social scene anyway.

In retrospect, I think that by my regarding that beautiful drawing in 5 Lessons as the pinnacle of the perfect grip --I may just have set myself back a bit. That being said, it set me off on a quest to ultimiately understand what goes into connecting ones body to the golf club.

What I'm getting at, I guess, is that while I think that there is such thing as a perfect grip-- I guarantee that no two of them would look -- or function--exactly alike.

Ones grip is no different than their fingerprint. It's unique to them.

I'll get back to you when i find mine.

Why not get a spare single club, say a 7 iron, and bend it flat and 3 degs open, and see what kind of grip change you need to hit controlled fades?

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1355771811' post='6081655']
Why not get a spare single club, say a 7 iron, and bend it flat and 3 degs open, and see what kind of grip change you need to hit controlled fades?
[/quote]I'm not sure what effect the flatness would have on my swing but 3 degs open would definitely help me get my grip into the stronger position I'm looking for.

I've always wanted to get my left hand into a stronger position--my good shots with a strong left hand are SO much better than my good shots with my weaker grip. But, like Mr. Hogan, my more than occasional vicious snipes (especially under the gun) have kept me from ever being able to trust it.

I might just take your advice. It sounds like the kind of thing that will either make me better or thrust me into a vortex of confusion.

It's okay...I'm pretty comfortable there...I'm a golfer.

First of all nice writing. V entertaining!
I got a couple of new wedges and took them to work ( I'm a club fitter ) and hit them stock lie and length. 20 yard pulls every shot.
Chopped them 0.5 and flattened them to 62* lie angle and proceeded to hit 20 shots with each perfectly on target.
I'm actually v similar to Hogans build - just minus the strength, talent & good clothes!
I firmly believe modern clubs are too long and upright.
Unless you have a 30 yard slice & hit a 7 iron 110...

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1355771811' post='6081655']
Why not get a spare single club, say a 7 iron, and bend it flat and 3 degs open, and see what kind of grip change you need to hit controlled fades?
[/quote]

I've never understood how you bend an iron open? You can bend it flat, which affects the dynamic face angle making it more right biased, but how do you bend an iron flat and open?

I'm with Kev. Bending to flat,yes, but I don't see how you could bend an iron open. 3* would be nearly one club, and it seems to me that the bounce would be wrong.

[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1356819851' post='6135283']
I'm with Kev. Bending to flat,yes, but I don't see how you could bend an iron open. 3* would be nearly one club, and it seems to me that the bounce would be wrong.
[/quote]

Maybe it has something to do with the bounce? I think how the club soles is what's affected when you bend a driver open?

[quote name='Iggypop' timestamp='1356777131' post='6133061']
First of all nice writing. V entertaining!
I got a couple of new wedges and took them to work ( I'm a club fitter ) and hit them stock lie and length. 20 yard pulls every shot.
Chopped them 0.5 and flattened them to 62* lie angle and proceeded to hit 20 shots with each perfectly on target.
I'm actually v similar to Hogans build - just minus the strength, talent & good clothes!
I firmly believe modern clubs are too long and upright.
Unless you have a 30 yard slice & hit a 7 iron 110...
[/quote] re:"I firmly believe modern clubs are too long and upright." I share that view too. Of course, the fact that I am about the same size as Cory Pavin or Ben Hogan just may influence my views on proper club specs..

[quote name='kevcarter ' timestamp='1356821363' post='6135381']
[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1356819851' post='6135283']
I'm with Kev. Bending to flat,yes, but I don't see how you could bend an iron open. 3* would be nearly one club, and it seems to me that the bounce would be wrong.
[/quote]

Maybe it has something to do with the bounce? I think how the club soles is what's affected when you bend a driver open?
[/quote]

He had the soles ground so that when the club was grounded, it would naturally lay open.

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1356829337' post='6136209']
[quote name='kevcarter ' timestamp='1356821363' post='6135381']
[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1356819851' post='6135283']
I'm with Kev. Bending to flat,yes, but I don't see how you could bend an iron open. 3* would be nearly one club, and it seems to me that the bounce would be wrong.
[/quote]

Maybe it has something to do with the bounce? I think how the club soles is what's affected when you bend a driver open?
[/quote]

He had the soles ground so that when the club was grounded, it would naturally lay open.
[/quote]

So that's the trick. And that would make it toe heavy, wouldn't it, which would add to the fade bias?

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1356882940' post='6138591']
[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1356829337' post='6136209']
[quote name='kevcarter ' timestamp='1356821363' post='6135381']
[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1356819851' post='6135283']
I'm with Kev. Bending to flat,yes, but I don't see how you could bend an iron open. 3* would be nearly one club, and it seems to me that the bounce would be wrong.
[/quote]

Maybe it has something to do with the bounce? I think how the club soles is what's affected when you bend a driver open?
[/quote]

He had the soles ground so that when the club was grounded, it would naturally lay open.
[/quote]

So that's the trick. And that would make it toe heavy, wouldn't it, which would add to the fade bias?
[/quote]

Now that makes sense. Thanks guys!

I dont see why and iron couldnt be set open. I had someone bend a wedged and really %$#@ ed it up pretty bad. It sat way open.

Irons can be bent open, which would lend to dealing with the change of bounce, which then could lead to grinding...

[quote name='mikpga' timestamp='1357144268' post='6153491']
Irons can be bent open, which would lend to dealing with the change of bounce, which then could lead to grinding...
[/quote]

People just mean bend it weaker when they say bend it open ya?

No. Will get back with you on this.

Where is this article? I can't find it on golf.com.

[quote name='mesegrn' timestamp='1357145749' post='6153627']
Where is this article? I can't find it on golf.com.
[/quote]May be a couple of months old...you can find it with a Google search...(Kostis/Hogan clubs/ Golf Magazine)

[quote name='mikpga' timestamp='1357144603' post='6153519']
No. Will get back with you on this.
[/quote]

So you change the grind on it so it sits open?

mikpga!