hogan's shoulder trickery

Looking at hogan and woodland I notice something with the shoulders

Left shoulder gets low in takeaway (relative to right)

Right shoulder gets very low in transition (relative to left)

Right shoulder gets very high relative to left quickly post impact (after it bottoms out post impact I think)

When I do this I can feel how it "gears" my spine properly I think like what kelvin takes about quite a bit

I think the feel of letting right shoulder get very highly quickly post impact is also very important. If u keep it low it kills your back and you can swing as fast imo

1. Yes
2. Not yet
3. 2nd tilt and R side bend

I'd post pics of the evidence but can't from b berry

On 3, he releases r side bend and comes out of 2nd tilt post impact. Holding it too long stalls pivot

Yes, TD, I've noticed what you're saying before. Hogan had unbelievable shoulder rotation speed through and post impact and stands up into the finish, releasing his right side bend. It took me a long time to really understand how he did that and I wrote about it before. Big time anti-hook move that helped release his lag while maximizing clubhead speed. It's good for someone coming in from a very shallow plane with a lot of lag. The stand up finish reduces stress on the back, IMO

Agreed, I'm just saying IMO that the direction his R shoulder takes is predicated on having axis tilt/side bend. No Hunter Mahan look from 7-9

Thanks hf

I remember you mentioned how something similar to this increases speed in the past

I also suspect you realize that this shifts the hand path more left through/post impact. And I think we both believe hogan's hand path was very left post impact

That mustve been what you mean by anti hook move. Nice

Think i've overdone the left move myself. Feel like i'm way left after I hit. Nice to see a 10 yard fade/slice though. Never hit one of those before.

Takes time.

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1356460257' post='6115559']
Yes, TD, I've noticed what you're saying before. Hogan had unbelievable shoulder rotation speed through and post impact and stands up into the finish, releasing his right side bend. It took me a long time to really understand how he did that and I wrote about it before. Big time anti-hook move that helped release his lag while maximizing clubhead speed. It's good for someone coming in from a very shallow plane with a lot of lag. The stand up finish reduces stress on the back, IMO
[/quote]

This is very interesting, because I have always assumed he released the right side bend, i.e., lost his spine angle post accident, because he couldn't physically hold it. In the Mystique video, the young Hogan seems to hold it, while in most of the older swings, he comes out of it through impact. So, the question is, is it something he learned to do to maintain distance, or something that was forced on him by the accident?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K59-7oC8E5U

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1356634925' post='6124579']
[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1356460257' post='6115559']
Yes, TD, I've noticed what you're saying before. Hogan had unbelievable shoulder rotation speed through and post impact and stands up into the finish, releasing his right side bend. It took me a long time to really understand how he did that and I wrote about it before. Big time anti-hook move that helped release his lag while maximizing clubhead speed. It's good for someone coming in from a very shallow plane with a lot of lag. The stand up finish reduces stress on the back, IMO
[/quote]

This is very interesting, because I have always assumed he released the right side bend, i.e., lost his spine angle post accident, because he couldn't physically hold it. In the Mystique video, the young Hogan seems to hold it, while in most of the older swings, he comes out of it through impact. So, the question is, is it something he learned to do to maintain distance, or something that was forced on him by the accident?

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K59-7oC8E5U[/media]
[/quote]

My post admittedly wasn't very clear as I was describing two different things. As far as his right side bend, in his pre-secret swing, he tended to have a hold off finish and kept his right side bend so that he wouldn't shut the face down and hook it. Once he employed his secret, he didn't need to do that, IMO.

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1356635501' post='6124645']
My post admittedly wasn't very clear as I was describing two different things. As far as his right side bend, in his pre-secret swing, he tended to have a hold off finish and kept his right side bend so that he wouldn't shut the face down and hook it. Once he employed his secret, he didn't need to do that, IMO.
[/quote]

That makes sense, because there are some post accident swings where it's not so obvious to me that he was standing up out of it, which may be draw swings.

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1356526400' post='6117751']
Think i've overdone the left move myself. Feel like i'm way left after I hit. Nice to see a 10 yard fade/slice though. Never hit one of those before.

Takes time.
[/quote]

Check your set up my man. Or your backswing width.


Martin was big on the "high right shoulder" - problem was (at least for me) that if you set up on the rightside you would get too wipey. He had a nice drill for that. He had a lot of seemingly crazy ideas that were not really that crazy once understood.

I wish this thread had more action. I think it's important.

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1356637843' post='6124857']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1356526400' post='6117751']
Think i've overdone the left move myself. Feel like i'm way left after I hit. Nice to see a 10 yard fade/slice though. Never hit one of those before.

Takes time.
[/quote]

Check your set up my man. Or your backswing width.


Martin was big on the "high right shoulder" - problem was (at least for me) that if you set up on the rightside you would get too wipey. He had a nice drill for that. He had a lot of seemingly crazy ideas that were not really that crazy once understood.
[/quote]

Ya...could very well be over-doing the reverse K set up and getting wipey.

Just for looking.
though actually Tyler I might disagree with the idea that the right shoulder goes very low.
I find interesting how it actually goes quite a lot wider out the the target line after impact (at least in this sequence).
You only have to try this to see how that really keeps the spine angle and makes the club go more around than up.
[attachment=1466907:right-shoulder_impact.jpg]

[attachment=1466943:Hogan Fairway Wood.jpg][attachment=1466945:Hogan - Controlled Power.jpg][attachment=1466947:Hogan - follow through color.jpg][attachment=1466949:Hogan Past Impact.jpg]


Found what I could, but I have to agree, that I don't think he ever gets really low with the right shoulder. Just as much as he needs to compensate for such a bent right arm.

my goodness those jules alexander pics are just stunning.

Just to clarify, I ment it gets low in transition with right side bent, then gets high and mores like pinsplitter said post impact, as right side bend is released

Tyler...doesn't that just mean he's staying in his inclination or even increases it as he's hitting the ball...and then he loses it well after the ball is gone.

Don't think that's something one can really try to make happen. It happens as you turn your hips deep and push your butt back and break the tushline a bit as Hogan does to make room for your right elbow to get in a pitch position so you can then bust it with your pivot.

I thought I would add some videos found on Youtube:

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOUL6G4E4a0[/media]

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82CQ8H5VEc0[/media]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1356705976' post='6128619']
Tyler...doesn't that just mean he's staying in his inclination or even increases it as he's hitting the ball...and then he loses it well after the ball is gone.

Don't think that's something one can really try to make happen. It happens as you turn your hips deep and push your butt back and break the tushline a bit as Hogan does to make room for your right elbow to get in a pitch position so you can then bust it with your pivot.
[/quote]

Yes I agree

I like that video of Hogan and Woodland by Lake a lot!

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1357655350' post='6189729']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1356705976' post='6128619']
Tyler...doesn't that just mean he's staying in his inclination or even increases it as he's hitting the ball...and then he loses it well after the ball is gone.

Don't think that's something one can really try to make happen. It happens as you turn your hips deep and push your butt back and break the tushline a bit as Hogan does to make room for your right elbow to get in a pitch position so you can then bust it with your pivot.
[/quote]

Yes I agree

I like that video of Hogan and Woodland by Lake a lot!
[/quote]

Woodland has a great move. I certainly hope he doesn't screw it up trying to hit more down on it to try and draw the ball.

Given that the shoulders are connected to eachother (and move in opposite directions), how does one pick one of the shoulders to focus on?

For example, 'raise the left shoulder following the transition' seems to be a better swing-thought for me than 'lower the right shoulder following the transition' (I am a right-handed golfer).

Just a random thought...

Whatever works for you I guess eh?

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357840508' post='6204199']
Whatever works for you I guess eh?
[/quote]

He would be run out of the TGM forums for saying that! LOL

yikes! Who would?

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357848380' post='6205083']
yikes! Who would?
[/quote]

Not you - Fade, for using an active left shoulder/ In TGM, the left shoulder/arm is inactive, and only gets moved by the driving right shoulder.

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1357859001' post='6206161']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1357848380' post='6205083']
yikes! Who would?
[/quote]

Not you - Fade, for using an active left shoulder/ In TGM, the left shoulder/arm is inactive, and only gets moved by the driving right shoulder.
[/quote]

Interesting. How does TGM define (the difference between) getting moved and getting driven?

I am posting the following picture for no particular reason, other than that it looks different from the usual Hogan sequences, and that the right shoulder movement stands out in the through-swing pictures.

I am posting the following picture for no particular reason, other than that it looks different from the usual Hogan sequences, and that the right shoulder movement stands out in the through-swing pictures.

 

Do we know for sure that this is Hogan? His left wrist still looks cupped at impact, spine angle is a bit upright and his shoes don't look right either.

I'm not saying its not, but not convinced yet that it is either. Maybe it's just the unusual camera angle.