Hogan did THIS and Hogan did THAT

I am on holiday and having forum fun.

Tried starting a thread elsewhere and got zero replies.

I must be either a genius or an idiot.

Over time reading lots of posts and looking at lots of instructor videos,

one thing really annoys me.

These people who reference Hogan when they are saying or teaching something.

You know what I mean,

Hogan did this and Hogan did that, the implied meaning being since I know what Hogan did I am really good and a golf expert.

attempting to obtain reflected glory just by mentioning his name.

Its like robbing the dead.

examples that annoy:

- Hogan said he did THIS but he didn't really , he did THIS (I know better).

- His book is for beginners, I know the secret stuff he didn't talk about.

= "Yes, the Neurological Time Delay factor also explains why he might have felt pressure there due to post-impact Pivot Thrust."

- "Remember though, the hit is divided bi-laterally, the right side of your body and the left side of your body serve contrary functions and the energy transfer is like fission, with both sides trying to divide the handle of the club and cause an explosion at the moment which occurs one to two feet after impact."

- You just don't have anatomic knowledge and understanding like me and …………"

- He did THIS because he was fighting a hook. Complete nonsense, as if it was terminal cancer in his body for all time, the hook was gone, disappeared, dead, deceased long ago.

These people create utter nonsense concepts and try to impress by being unintelligible.

And people who say Hogan did THIS and you only have to look at pics or a video to see clearly he did not.

"laying off the club" being one example of that.

it is simply astonishingly awful how with all the pics and videos and books from the man himself that people have to second guess what he said and showed us.

It must be because they don't understand what he actually said and did.

But they can't admit to that, their golf ego as an instructor or forum poster means they have appear to be knowledgeable and wise.

By the way,

when will we run out of "Hogan's xxxxx" topics, just how many bits can we cut him up into.

One I don't recall is "Hogan's Falling Toward Target at the Top Move".

Can someone start that?

The theories on that would be very entertaining.

Have a great New Year youse all and good golfing.

Some words of truth.

[b]A lot of the problem has to do with the swing changes he made over the years[/b]. People just assume he had the same swing his entire career. Many here believe his prime was post-secret, pre-accident, which would be the years 1947-49. Even Hogan himself said " I was better in 1948 and 1949 than I've ever been". I agree with a lot of the things you mentioned above. Anytime you hear the word secret, it is best to run away. You have to also remember that Hogan was a player and not a teacher. There are things Hogan said in his book that he either did a horrible job of explaining or......he was unaware of what he was doing. With that said, he may have been the smartest player to have ever played this game.

I have a copy of Modern Fundamentals signed by the man himself. Therefore, I know more about it than anyone.

[quote name='Pinsplitter59' timestamp='1356491860' post='6117083']
And people who say Hogan did THIS and you only have to look at pics or a video to see clearly he did not.
"laying off the club" being one example of that.
[/quote]

laying off the club with that steep of a transition handpath is only possible with one thing which tom bertrand failed to see. Here's bertrand:

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODCzUcP6GLk[/media]

And here's Hogan taking the lifeline of his right hand off the left hand before the top of the backswing. Watch from 1:45...he keeps it there into impact and you can tell from impact photos if you look closely enough

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no1JgdM6q4Y[/media]

[attachment=1464783:Hogan P4.jpg]

Hogan is attributed with many things that he never said or did. He has been made a legend with no
golfing flaws. My opinion is that the legend has eclipsed the real Hogan.

Too many people think they know his secret. He had no secret, he just practiced more than anyone else.

[quote name='Pinsplitter59' timestamp='1356491860' post='6117083']
I am on holiday and having forum fun.
Tried starting a thread elsewhere and got zero replies.
I must be either a genius or an idiot.
Over time reading lots of posts and looking at lots of instructor videos,
one thing really annoys me.
These people who reference Hogan when they are saying or teaching something.
You know what I mean,
Hogan did this and Hogan did that, the implied meaning being since I know what Hogan did I am really good and a golf expert.
attempting to obtain reflected glory just by mentioning his name.
Its like robbing the dead.
examples that annoy:
- Hogan said he did THIS but he didn't really , he did THIS (I know better).
- His book is for beginners, I know the secret stuff he didn't talk about.
= "Yes, the Neurological Time Delay factor also explains why he might have felt pressure there due to post-impact Pivot Thrust."
- "Remember though, the hit is divided bi-laterally, the right side of your body and the left side of your body serve contrary functions and the energy transfer is like fission, with both sides trying to divide the handle of the club and cause an explosion at the moment which occurs one to two feet after impact."
- You just don't have anatomic knowledge and understanding like me and …………"
- He did THIS because he was fighting a hook. Complete nonsense, as if it was terminal cancer in his body for all time, the hook was gone, disappeared, dead, deceased long ago.

These people create utter nonsense concepts and try to impress by being unintelligible.
And people who say Hogan did THIS and you only have to look at pics or a video to see clearly he did not.
"laying off the club" being one example of that.

it is simply astonishingly awful how with all the pics and videos and books from the man himself that people have to second guess what he said and showed us.
It must be because they don't understand what he actually said and did.
But they can't admit to that, their golf ego as an instructor or forum poster means they have appear to be knowledgeable and wise.

By the way,
when will we run out of "Hogan's xxxxx" topics, just how many bits can we cut him up into.
One I don't recall is "Hogan's Falling Toward Target at the Top Move".
Can someone start that?
The theories on that would be very entertaining.

Have a great New Year youse all and good golfing.
[/quote]

Trying to understand: You are expressing an opinion and judgement on others opinions and judgements? Are you proud of your own humility with regard to Hogan as well?

I think that Hogan wrote 5 Lessons to try to simplify his own thoughts on the swing. It details how important the grip and set-up were for him, and details some key moves.

Human beings try to overcomplicate everything, to try to "understand it."

How complicated do you think Rory McIlroy thinks about his own swing. After playing pretty well at Firestone - the Bridgestone - he mentioned that he tried not to think of anything and just hit to a target. As I recall, he played really well for more than a few tournaments after that.

Sometimes I think that we do better when we try to eliminate the unnecessary from our swings, rather than try to add to them.

I have no idea what Hogan really thought, but I highly doubt that he was aware of pulling the lifeline of his right hand off his left thumb, for example. If that actually happened, which I doubt, I bet that he was completely unaware of it. It would have been a result of the speed of his swing. To actually try to do that would add a complication which would detract from one's ability to execute, in my humble opinion.

5 Lessons is a great book. Even better with a stronger left hand than Hogan describes. And, perhaps even better, when you read Percy Boomer, which Hogan studied extensively, and also read what his contemporaries said that he talked about to them, of which you can get a flavor in Jim McLean's book. Don't take too seriously the guys who try to reinterpret what Hogan said.

At least that is my experience. but, I spend too much time thinking about the golf swing, and not enough time on scoring!

[quote name='Guia' timestamp='1356549611' post='6118917']
Hogan is attributed with many things that he never said or did. He has been made a legend with no
golfing flaws. My opinion is that the legend has eclipsed the real Hogan.

Too many people think they know his secret. He had no secret, he just practiced more than anyone else.
[/quote]

That's far away from the truth. He had a secret. HIS SECRET that changed his ball flight to fade in one day. It was a secret because he didn't tell it. Nothing else.

Do we need to find it? Yes, but only if we already got his swing and every little piece of it.

Talking about Hogans swing and what made him so great is totally something else than talking about his secret. Hunting the secret has been one hobby for me for years and I think I get pretty close to it by understanding his swing first. At the end it's pretty simple geometry. I mean both, his swing and his secret.

I admit to being guilty but why exactly do we read and try to immitate the 5 fundamentals? He initially had his swing. It apparently produced hooks more often than he wanted. He developed a new swing (secret) as a cure for HIS problem (hook). Unless we all have similar characteristics (swing speed, release, height, build, strength, flexibility, equipment, etc..) and swing problems, then trying to copy him probably isn't the smartest idea.

He played in a time when he could hit thousands upon thousands of balls to discover what works for him, whereas we have to often pay $12 per 100 balls. He played with different equipment and with different courses. Tiger has a relatively normal build, can hit any shape or trajectory, however he hits the ball a heck of a lot further and has owned his generation second only to Jack. So why do we revere BH so much? Because one part of his game was world class (striking the ball)?

My point is that there are so many ways to accomplish the same goal. Instead of trying to copy Hogan why can't we just appreciate him and attribute his success to hard work as opposed to some fountain of youth secret?

[quote name='Jericho' timestamp='1356617433' post='6123015']
My point is that there are so many ways to accomplish the same goal. Instead of trying to copy Hogan why can't we just appreciate him and attribute his success to hard work as opposed to some fountain of youth secret?
[/quote]

Not everyone in Hogan's Heroes wants to copy him, just figure out what all of the secret is. At the very least, there was a secret - Hogan said so, and even described it. Anyway, if I decided to copy Hogan's swing, it would be the pre-secret one!

[quote name='IH82BOGEY' timestamp='1356567357' post='6120151']
[quote name='Pinsplitter59' timestamp='1356491860' post='6117083']
I am on holiday and having forum fun.
Tried starting a thread elsewhere and got zero replies.
I must be either a genius or an idiot.
Over time reading lots of posts and looking at lots of instructor videos,
one thing really annoys me.
These people who reference Hogan when they are saying or teaching something.
You know what I mean,
Hogan did this and Hogan did that, the implied meaning being since I know what Hogan did I am really good and a golf expert.
attempting to obtain reflected glory just by mentioning his name.
Its like robbing the dead.
examples that annoy:
- Hogan said he did THIS but he didn't really , he did THIS (I know better).
- His book is for beginners, I know the secret stuff he didn't talk about.
= "Yes, the Neurological Time Delay factor also explains why he might have felt pressure there due to post-impact Pivot Thrust."
- "Remember though, the hit is divided bi-laterally, the right side of your body and the left side of your body serve contrary functions and the energy transfer is like fission, with both sides trying to divide the handle of the club and cause an explosion at the moment which occurs one to two feet after impact."
- You just don't have anatomic knowledge and understanding like me and …………"
- He did THIS because he was fighting a hook. Complete nonsense, as if it was terminal cancer in his body for all time, the hook was gone, disappeared, dead, deceased long ago.

These people create utter nonsense concepts and try to impress by being unintelligible.
And people who say Hogan did THIS and you only have to look at pics or a video to see clearly he did not.
"laying off the club" being one example of that.

it is simply astonishingly awful how with all the pics and videos and books from the man himself that people have to second guess what he said and showed us.
It must be because they don't understand what he actually said and did.
But they can't admit to that, their golf ego as an instructor or forum poster means they have appear to be knowledgeable and wise.

By the way,
when will we run out of "Hogan's xxxxx" topics, just how many bits can we cut him up into.
One I don't recall is "Hogan's Falling Toward Target at the Top Move".
Can someone start that?
The theories on that would be very entertaining.

Have a great New Year youse all and good golfing.
[/quote]

Trying to understand: [b]You are expressing an opinion and judgement on others opinions and judgements[/b]? Are you proud of your own humility with regard to Hogan as well?
[/quote]
This is a cheap cop out. Trying to deflect as you are does nothing to hide the truth in what he says. The title of this thread intrigued me, otherwise I would not have gone near a Hogan thread. Too much smoke being blown by too many "experts" to be a good read, most of the time.

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1356640863' post='6125139']
The title of this thread intrigued me, otherwise I would not have gone near a Hogan thread. Too much smoke being blown by too many "experts" to be a good read, most of the time.
[/quote]

Looks like you're going near a lot of Hogan threads to know about all that smoke blowing.

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1356646510' post='6125553']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1356640863' post='6125139']
The title of this thread intrigued me, otherwise I would not have gone near a Hogan thread. Too much smoke being blown by too many "experts" to be a good read, most of the time.
[/quote]

Looks like you're going near a lot of Hogan threads to know about all that smoke blowing.
[/quote]
I used to, but all that smoke...teary eyes, coughing, couldn't breathe......hadda stop.

Well you see i just watched a video someone posted in the main forum,
there's a chap there giving i guess good advice,
but he just couldn't help himself and had to reference Ben Hogan in relation to what he was saying.
Implicitly that means Ben Hogan did THIS, therefore what I am saying must be true.
Implicitly that means he understands Ben Hogan's swing.
Indirectly that means he is trying to add undeserved credibility to what he says.
When he was talking about hitting it hard with the right hand,
Why not reference Jack Nicklaus, Ray Floyd or countless other great golfers?

Because it is about the presenter trying to gain unearned credibility for free, theft really.
Its the oldest speech making trick in the book,
start with a wise quote from a famous person and it will make you look wise and intelligent.
All attempts at reflected glory and reflected credibility.

Am I allowed to flame famous teachers?
That David Goldisbetter fellow is the worst offender.
Slick salesmen of used golf swings $99 drive-away no more to pay.

[quote name='Pinsplitter59' timestamp='1356657677' post='6126397']
Well you see i just watched a video someone posted in the main forum,
there's a chap there giving i guess good advice,
but he just couldn't help himself and had to reference Ben Hogan in relation to what he was saying.
Implicitly that means Ben Hogan did THIS, therefore what I am saying must be true.
Implicitly that means he understands Ben Hogan's swing.
Indirectly that means he is trying to add undeserved credibility to what he says.
When he was talking about hitting it hard with the right hand,
Why not reference Jack Nicklaus, Ray Floyd or countless other great golfers?

Because it is about the presenter trying to gain unearned credibility for free, theft really.
Its the oldest speech making trick in the book,
start with a wise quote from a famous person and it will make you look wise and intelligent.
All attempts at reflected glory and reflected credibility.

Am I allowed to flame famous teachers?
That David Goldisbetter fellow is the worst offender.
Slick salesmen of used golf swings $99 drive-away no more to pay.
[/quote]

A great part of our culture is based on this trick. This is well studied in art history. This is the reason the White House is in large part based on Greek and Roman design, and why many buildings in London are Greek and Roman designs, why the standard design for a catholic church is a Roman basilica, why Popes wear purple robes while emperors wore purple togas, why the renaissance in italy is considered a great time in western history because they finally figured out how to replicate many of the lost greek and roman techniques. The history of western civilization is in large part a series of Greek and Roman revivals. Why? because the Greek and Roman style a long time ago became the symbol for cultural, artistic, philosophical, and political greatness, and most if not all other subsequent eras have used these symbols to establish that they are the inheritors of this greatness, or as you said...robbing from the dead.

Ben Hogan has become this symbol in golf for whatever reason, and like you said, teachers often try to establish a connection to Hogan. He has become the standard of truth in many people's eyes. I don't think they are trying to be decitful because many people see many different things in Hogan's action. They think they have found a great way to swing the club, so they must have something in common with the truth right?

Ben Hogan is facinating in part because of the esthetic of the era he's from and because many consider him to have the greatest unatural golf swing in history. If you're trying to build your swing would you try to follow someone who successfully built theirs like Hogan or someone who has a natural knack for it like Palmer. Hogan was said to work incredibly hard and I think most people can better relate to the "struggle" that exists in golf.

I think it more usefull to read what he had to say as opposed to study video because he's fairly straight forward in explaining what he was trying to do, others will find video more usefull, and others will rely on other "experts" to figure it out for them and believe this expert about the ins and outs of Hogan. Anyway, It's not going to go away lol.

Every time I see this thread title I can't help but think of Frankie Pantangeli in Godfather II, "Michael Corleone did THIS and Michael Corleone did THAT, so I said uh sure!"

[quote name='Pinsplitter59' timestamp='1356491860' post='6117083']
I am on holiday and having forum fun.
Tried starting a thread elsewhere and got zero replies.
I must be either a genius or an idiot.
Over time reading lots of posts and looking at lots of instructor videos,
one thing really annoys me.
These people who reference Hogan when they are saying or teaching something.
You know what I mean,
Hogan did this and Hogan did that, the implied meaning being since I know what Hogan did I am really good and a golf expert.
attempting to obtain reflected glory just by mentioning his name.
Its like robbing the dead.
examples that annoy:
- Hogan said he did THIS but he didn't really , he did THIS (I know better).
- His book is for beginners, I know the secret stuff he didn't talk about.
= "Yes, the Neurological Time Delay factor also explains why he might have felt pressure there due to post-impact Pivot Thrust."
- "Remember though, the hit is divided bi-laterally, the right side of your body and the left side of your body serve contrary functions and the energy transfer is like fission, with both sides trying to divide the handle of the club and cause an explosion at the moment which occurs one to two feet after impact."
- You just don't have anatomic knowledge and understanding like me and …………"
- He did THIS because he was fighting a hook. Complete nonsense, as if it was terminal cancer in his body for all time, the hook was gone, disappeared, dead, deceased long ago.

These people create utter nonsense concepts and try to impress by being unintelligible.
And people who say Hogan did THIS and you only have to look at pics or a video to see clearly he did not.
"laying off the club" being one example of that.

it is simply astonishingly awful how with all the pics and videos and books from the man himself that people have to second guess what he said and showed us.
It must be because they don't understand what he actually said and did.
But they can't admit to that, their golf ego as an instructor or forum poster means they have appear to be knowledgeable and wise.

By the way,
when will we run out of "Hogan's xxxxx" topics, just how many bits can we cut him up into.
One I don't recall is "Hogan's Falling Toward Target at the Top Move".
Can someone start that?
The theories on that would be very entertaining.

Have a great New Year youse all and good golfing.
[/quote]

How about telling us more thailand stories.

There's a lineage in golf of which Hogan is a part. Hogan had influences just as he in turn influenced many people and had many disciplies of his own who carried his teachings throughout the following decades on the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. Today, we see many of the disciples having influenced great players of the last 20 years.

Hogan pieced together his swing from what he saw around him from the time he was a young man in the caddie yard or Glen Garden CC. He saw individual things which better players did and he strived--just as we all would--to make attempts to incorporate those techniques. In the end, he wound up with a variety of things which worked well enough together to win tournaments but he also stood as a great example of a variety of ideas. His lower body motions were copied. His waggle was copied. He take-away was copied. The point is that almost anything Hogan did, he probably saw somewhere else with envy and admiration.

Therefore, we can safely say that the true glory of Hogan was how much he compiled into 1 golf swing. It's to no end an incredible thing that we can watch a Hogan real and cite a dozen or more 'textbook' examples of how to achieve what are today considered standard practices. [i]This[/i] is what your left knee should look like[i], that [/i]is good footwork, [i]this [/i]is a one-piece takeaway, [i]that [/i]is a lateral bump, [i]this [/i]is connection, etc, etc, etc.

It's no great mystery then why someone would look to even the minute details of Hogan's swing to find answers; sub-topics to each of those chapters. If there's one thing about the golf swing which mirrors life it's that we are all tragically disconnected is such a way that we may never know exactly what the guy standing next to us telling us about his swing is really feeling inside. And so, in many ways we strive to erase as much doubt as possible through more mechanically-descriptive means of substituting [i]something[/i] for the inherent nothing that exists between us and each other.

It's good to stand back every once in awhile and remember what it's all about, but it's really all in the effort to better understand something which may help make us better and paint a more accurate picture of Hogan and his work.

Looking at research in any field and you'll say that each small project or experiement in and of itself weighs an infinitesimal amount compared with the sum of human knowledge, but in time those small bits of learning get pieced together to form the next big step. 50 years of studying Hogan has given us what we have. If you're going to discuss him on a day-to-day basis, it's going to get tedious. That's not for everyone but in reality, as Hogan's actual diciplies begin to disappear and we find ourselves more and more removed from the actual man himself, the only natural process is to begin our own comprehensive approach to understanding his work.

Remember, Hogan spent hours learning, working, discussing and developing each small thing he tried and so did his mentors and students. To think that somehow there's more going on in a thread here than was talked about in Hogan's personal teaching just isn't giving Hogan--or golf instruction in general--enough credence. Students will always have questions and this forum, so much as I see it, is more connected with actually [u]practicing[/u] and [u]playing[/u] than any other on this site...

...take that for what it's worth.

Awesome post Mellow.

Great post mellow!

Where are you at Pin?

[quote name='Guia' timestamp='1356549611' post='6118917']
Hogan is attributed with many things that he never said or did. He has been made a legend with no
golfing flaws. My opinion is that the legend has eclipsed the real Hogan.

Too many people think they know his secret. He had no secret, he just practiced more than anyone else.
[/quote]
This is probably the most sensible post I've read on this forum, but I doubt it will be well received I find this forum to be almost like a cult. And like every cult to be a part you need to have blind faith to be a believer. 'Mister' Hogans secret was a very slick marketing ploy to boost further book sales, but somehow grew to it's current mythical status. It isn't that different to Jack Hamm and his promise of extra yards. BOOOOOOMMMMM BABY!!!!

[quote name='playa' timestamp='1388381326' post='8366211']
[quote name='Guia' timestamp='1356549611' post='6118917']
Hogan is attributed with many things that he never said or did. He has been made a legend with no
golfing flaws. My opinion is that the legend has eclipsed the real Hogan.

Too many people think they know his secret. He had no secret, he just practiced more than anyone else.
[/quote]
This is probably the most sensible post I've read on this forum, but I doubt it will be well received I find this forum to be almost like a cult. And like every cult to be a part you need to have blind faith to be a believer. 'Mister' Hogans secret was a very slick marketing ploy to boost further book sales, but somehow grew to it's current mythical status. It isn't that different to Jack Hamm and his promise of extra yards. BOOOOOOMMMMM BABY!!!!
[/quote]

Flamebait -- feed not the troll.

[quote name='guisician' timestamp='1388383485' post='8366269']
[quote name='playa' timestamp='1388381326' post='8366211']
[quote name='Guia' timestamp='1356549611' post='6118917']
Hogan is attributed with many things that he never said or did. He has been made a legend with no
golfing flaws. My opinion is that the legend has eclipsed the real Hogan.

Too many people think they know his secret. He had no secret, he just practiced more than anyone else.
[/quote]
This is probably the most sensible post I've read on this forum, but I doubt it will be well received I find this forum to be almost like a cult. And like every cult to be a part you need to have blind faith to be a believer. 'Mister' Hogans secret was a very slick marketing ploy to boost further book sales, but somehow grew to it's current mythical status. It isn't that different to Jack Hamm and his promise of extra yards. BOOOOOOMMMMM BABY!!!!
[/quote]

Flamebait -- feed not the troll.
[/quote]
It's an honest opinion. No flame.

I think he rocked. But a guy like Nicklaus doesn't get the attention for his ballstriking...even though he has a way better record.

Even Palmer has a record nearly as good as his. Why don't we get all weak in the knees for them and have a sub-forum for them?

Gotta be something to it.

Pin has become quite a poetic poster. Love him for it.

You still in Thailand Pin?

Happy New Year to you boys if I don't talk to you sooner!

[quote name='MelloYello' timestamp='1361454135' post='6471049']
There's a lineage in golf of which Hogan is a part. Hogan had influences just as he in turn influenced many people and had many disciplies of his own who carried his teachings throughout the following decades on the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. Today, we see many of the disciples having influenced great players of the last 20 years.

Hogan pieced together his swing from what he saw around him from the time he was a young man in the caddie yard or Glen Garden CC. He saw individual things which better players did and he strived--just as we all would--to make attempts to incorporate those techniques. In the end, he wound up with a variety of things which worked well enough together to win tournaments but he also stood as a great example of a variety of ideas. His lower body motions were copied. His waggle was copied. He take-away was copied. The point is that almost anything Hogan did, he probably saw somewhere else with envy and admiration.

Therefore, we can safely say that the true glory of Hogan was how much he compiled into 1 golf swing. It's to no end an incredible thing that we can watch a Hogan real and cite a dozen or more 'textbook' examples of how to achieve what are today considered standard practices. [i]This[/i] is what your left knee should look like[i], that [/i]is good footwork, [i]this [/i]is a one-piece takeaway, [i]that [/i]is a lateral bump, [i]this [/i]is connection, etc, etc, etc.

It's no great mystery then why someone would look to even the minute details of Hogan's swing to find answers; sub-topics to each of those chapters. If there's one thing about the golf swing which mirrors life it's that we are all tragically disconnected is such a way that we may never know exactly what the guy standing next to us telling us about his swing is really feeling inside. And so, in many ways we strive to erase as much doubt as possible through more mechanically-descriptive means of substituting [i]something[/i] for the inherent nothing that exists between us and each other.

It's good to stand back every once in awhile and remember what it's all about, but it's really all in the effort to better understand something which may help make us better and paint a more accurate picture of Hogan and his work.

Looking at research in any field and you'll say that each small project or experiement in and of itself weighs an infinitesimal amount compared with the sum of human knowledge, but in time those small bits of learning get pieced together to form the next big step. 50 years of studying Hogan has given us what we have. If you're going to discuss him on a day-to-day basis, it's going to get tedious. That's not for everyone but in reality, as Hogan's actual diciplies begin to disappear and we find ourselves more and more removed from the actual man himself, the only natural process is to begin our own comprehensive approach to understanding his work.

Remember, Hogan spent hours learning, working, discussing and developing each small thing he tried and so did his mentors and students. To think that somehow there's more going on in a thread here than was talked about in Hogan's personal teaching just isn't giving Hogan--or golf instruction in general--enough credence. Students will always have questions and this forum, so much as I see it, is more connected with actually [u]practicing[/u] and [u]playing[/u] than any other on this site...

...take that for what it's worth.
[/quote]

+1. Very enjoyable read

The 5 fundamentals book is very confusing to me, Couldn't really take anything from it to the range Pronation/suppination/castration/punch a clown---Whoops i just went Cajun-Man. I Dug way more "Out of the Dirt" via Tom Watson's books. Also wasn't Snead's swing just as pretty as Ben's...Jack's best overall?? Everyone puts Hogan on this huge pedestal. I admire his work ethic and efficient swing but he was a mean jagoff which others seem to cover up. If Arnie calls you out for being a tool...you are a tool.

Jack's swing is not in the same ball park.

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1388430751' post='8368587']
Jack's swing is not in the same ball park.
[/quote]


You mean jack's was way better?