SkyPro - really impressive

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  • ratherbgolfing2013ratherbgolfing2013 Members  6WRX Points: 0Posts: 6
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    AnthonyTX wrote:


    Yeah its definitely a bummer that it doesn't have face angle @ impact. I am having serious problems with my club face being open on impact so I'd love to groove that portion.



    Newbie Q: Is return angle @ half down really that relevant? According to the app on the half back it should be around 30 - 40 degrees.. fair enough... but I assume on the downswing you probably wont be obtaining the same angle at the half way point right?



    I reaaaallly wish there was angle at impact. Fat shots screw up the club speed at impact, thus it shouldnt affect the reasoning for no club face angle @ impact.




    Noitom mySwing has face angle @ impact. I am waiting for a shoot out review so I can decide which one to buy.
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  • SunOfGolfSunOfGolf Members  66WRX Points: 0Posts: 66
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    AnthonyTX wrote:

    SunOfGolf wrote:


    This is a design flaw that I predict will haunt them on the first batch of production. You heard it here first.



    I still love the device though, with the clamp snugged up, it really is very accurate. And very easy to use. You will get results!






    Technically I mentioned it first image/golfer.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':golfer:' />




    It's all good. Except. White/orange separating? Not what's happening here.
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  • DLiverDLiver Members  2791WRX Points: 267Handicap: 2.2Posts: 2,791 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited May 5, 2013 #184
    My SkyPro came yesterday, and I took it out for a brief spin in my yard. First of all, there is a shocking lack of documentation. All of the info you need is out there, it just isn't in one place. Some is on the iPhone, some is on SkyPro's web site. I found myself having to hunt around for the information I wanted.



    The think the device is a little buggy, but not bad. For example, I too had the weird error when trying to select a club during calibration. It went away after I went through the calibration cycle a few times. So far these little things are very minor and (I'm sure) will be ironed out soon.



    The SkyPro provides a wealth of data that appears to be very accurate. My pro uses a Flightscope launch monitor during my lessons, and the info from my SkyPro matches the Flightscope info very well.



    There is, IMO, a big caveat that users need to understand because it directly effects all the data they receive. The SP assumes that your club face is pointed down the target line, so all the measurements you receive are based on this. So if your club face is open at address and you take the club away inside, SP may show you as having a straight takeaway. Since many golfers do not point the club at the target at address, this is an important consideration. SP suggests using an alignment aid when working with the device.



    My biggest disappointment is the amount of data about what is going on at impact. Right now they show shaft lean and shaft (lie) angle at impact. What I really want to know is face angle and path at impact. I would also like to know club rotation, angle of attack and path at impact. (it would also be nice to know clubface rotation at impact, but I can live without it.) I understand the value of having all the other swing metrics, but impact is where it all comes together, and I think this is a pretty significant shortcoming, although I realize others may disagree. SP says they collect face angle at impact info, but gave some vague reason why they don't display it. I suspect they do (or can) capture the other info as well. Perhaps they will in the future.



    So I'm not sure how useful the SP will be to me. It is a very cool, very robust device, and I imagine it will only get better in the future.



    (In case anyone is interested, I ordered this from Golfsmith on Thursday and it arrived on Saturday. Thanks to Tex77 for the discount code--that saved me $30!)
    Posted:
  • JrMistMakerJrMistMaker Members  104WRX Points: 0Posts: 104
    Joined:  edited May 5, 2013 #185




    Can you let me know the response time? Do you have to wait 5-6 seconds for data processing? Does it give you face angle @ impact? What is shaft angle @ impact? Is it club path or lie angle?



    Thanks!




    Time response is maybe 1 or 2 second max. By the time you finish and look at ur phone it will be there.



    For everyone talking about face angle see my last post as it had a long response from the SkyPro ppl as to why they didn't include face angle in this version. (Cliff note are that ur swing is causing u to screw up so they want u to fix that before u try to change just ur face angle)
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  • DLiverDLiver Members  2791WRX Points: 267Handicap: 2.2Posts: 2,791 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited May 5, 2013 #186
    For everyone talking about face angle see my last post as it had a long response from the SkyPro ppl as to why they didn't include face angle in this version. (Cliff note are that ur swing is causing u to screw up so they want u to fix that before u try to change just ur face angle)




    Yes, I saw that response, and yes you do need to fix the problem upstream in the swing. But without FA and path info at impact, it can be difficult to figure out what is going on. I have a bad habit of hitting with my right hand (due to playing a lot of tennis) and shutting down the face. I compensate by coming inside more. I sure would like to know what's going on at impact.



    Anyway this is a little off topic. It's a good little device.
    Posted:
  • MathwizMathwiz Members  987WRX Points: 123Posts: 987 Golden Tee
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    DLiver wrote:


    My biggest disappointment is the amount of data about what is going on at impact. Right now they show shaft lean and shaft (lie) angle at impact. What I really want to know is face angle and path at impact. I would also like to know club rotation, angle of attack and path at impact. (it would also be nice to know clubface rotation at impact, but I can live without it.) I understand the value of having all the other swing metrics, but impact is where it all comes together, and I think this is a pretty significant shortcoming, although I realize others may disagree. SP says they collect face angle at impact info, but gave some vague reason why they don't display it. I suspect they do (or can) capture the other info as well. Perhaps they will in the future.




    From everything I have read, angle of attack (AOA) and shaft lean are different terms (used by different vendors) for the same metric. The reason why is, the angle as measured at the face level is dynamic considering which iron you are using.



    Correct me if I am wrong.
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  • TheBigGunTheBigGun Members  591WRX Points: 1Posts: 591 Golden Tee
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    Mathwiz wrote:

    DLiver wrote:


    My biggest disappointment is the amount of data about what is going on at impact. Right now they show shaft lean and shaft (lie) angle at impact. What I really want to know is face angle and path at impact. I would also like to know club rotation, angle of attack and path at impact. (it would also be nice to know clubface rotation at impact, but I can live without it.) I understand the value of having all the other swing metrics, but impact is where it all comes together, and I think this is a pretty significant shortcoming, although I realize others may disagree. SP says they collect face angle at impact info, but gave some vague reason why they don't display it. I suspect they do (or can) capture the other info as well. Perhaps they will in the future.




    From everything I have read, angle of attack (AOA) and shaft lean are different terms (used by different vendors) for the same metric. The reason why is, the angle as measured at the face level is dynamic considering which iron you are using.



    Correct me if I am wrong.




    Angle of attack is effectively the position of the ball in respect to the bottom of the swing. Negative angle of attack = ball before turf, positive = hitting up (driver swing).



    I haven't looked at the numbers but I'm sure you could still hit up with a bit of shaft lean if you manipulated it enough with your hands and body.
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  • mlmathewsmlmathews Members  4WRX Points: 0Posts: 4
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    DLiver wrote:


    So I'm not sure how useful the SP will be to me. It is a very cool, very robust device, and I imagine it will only get better in the future.




    My hunch is that all the smarts are in the iPhone app. The device is just sending a steady stream of accelerometer data that the app processes to figure out what's going on. So I think it's reasonable to expect new features to appear over time with app updates.
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  • AnthonyTXAnthonyTX Members  72WRX Points: 0Posts: 72
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    SunOfGolf wrote:

    AnthonyTX wrote:

    SunOfGolf wrote:


    This is a design flaw that I predict will haunt them on the first batch of production. You heard it here first.



    I still love the device though, with the clamp snugged up, it really is very accurate. And very easy to use. You will get results!






    Technically I mentioned it first image/golfer.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':golfer:' />




    It's all good. Except. White/orange separating? Not what's happening here.




    I was only joking around image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
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  • PinmasterPinmaster Members  244WRX Points: 50Posts: 244 Fairways
    Joined:  edited May 5, 2013 #191
    I picked up my sky pro Friday and was impressed the first 32 swings.... now back at the range today and it will not stay calibrated. I was only able to get 4 swings today. I'm really frustrated with the skypro today.

    I tried everything under the sun and it just fails to work correctly. It did show fully charged today when I first hit the range. Then the recalibrate, recalibrate, recalibrate BS started. I spent a few hours trying to get it working. I should have put the dang thing back in the case and had a "regular" pratice session.



    Now my phone will not find it unless the skypro is in the charger... even then it will not pair with my phone. Rebooted the phone several times and still nothing.





    If it does not start working tomorrow..... I plan on taking it back to Golfsmith . Not really sure that I want a replacement after all the bugs that this unit seems to have.



    Seems really neat when it works......
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  • AnthonyTXAnthonyTX Members  72WRX Points: 0Posts: 72
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    Pinmaster wrote:




    I tried everything under the sun and it just fails to work correctly. It did show fully charged today when I first hit the range. Then the recalibrate, recalibrate, recalibrate BS started. I spent a few hours trying to get it working. I should have put the dang thing back in the case and had a "regular" pratice session.






    Did you try resetting network settings? Go to Settings -> General -> Reset -> Reset Network Settings



    It'll reboot and I typically see the Skypro at that point.
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  • PinmasterPinmaster Members  244WRX Points: 50Posts: 244 Fairways
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    AnthonyTX wrote:

    Pinmaster wrote:


    I tried everything under the sun and it just fails to work correctly. It did show fully charged today when I first hit the range. Then the recalibrate, recalibrate, recalibrate BS started. I spent a few hours trying to get it working. I should have put the dang thing back in the case and had a "regular" pratice session.






    Did you try resetting network settings? Go to Settings -> General -> Reset -> Reset Network Settings



    It'll reboot and I typically see the Skypro at that point.



    Yes, I've done that even though it means that I have to set the ringer, screen savers , and ther things on my phone. I've even tried to scan for it with another phone and it will not pick it up....
    Posted:
  • gparkegparke Members  64WRX Points: 30Posts: 64 Bunkers
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    Hi guys, I'm Gord, one of the developers of SkyPro. First of all, it's great to see a positive response overall. A few of us have been working on this project for almost 4 years (then called PocketPro), so it's really awesome to hear people enjoying it. I'm hoping to answer some of the questions I see here, and make myself available in case you have any more.



    Calibration. Swingnmiss: an update to our app was approved by Apple today that I think will fix your issues with calibration. In a nutshell, we found that some iPhone 4 devices had problems running our calibration algorithm and 3D instructions simultaneously. We optimized the algorithm for the iPhone 4, and made it more robust in case things do slow down. Apple agreed to expedite our review process, so it's on the app store as of today. Sorry, that must have been frustrating. Everyone else: while this calibration fix was intended mostly for the iPhone 4, it should improve calibration on all devices.



    On a similar note, nandler mentioned that it's annoying to recalibrate if the app closes. This is also addressed in the app update today. Our initial intention was to make sure people don't forget to calibrate before taking swings, but doing this each time app closed proved to be pretty annoying. We've now check if it was closed in the last 5 minutes, and if so, assume the previous calibration hasn't changed.



    AnthonyTX, it sounds like you fixed your pairing problem, but I wanted to address it in case anyone else is having the same issue. We have found that sometimes the initial pairing will fail, and the SkyPro disappears from the Bluetooth list. If this happens, just restart your iOS device. This has only ever happened to use during the initial pairing process, never during subsequent connections, so it should be just a one time thing.



    SunOfGolf, thanks for the detailed report about your hardware issue! Information like that is very helpful for tweaking our production process. It sounds like you might have fixed it yourself - but if you have to keep tightening that screw, please message me with your information and I can get you a replacement. AnthonyTX, did you have a problem as well? We appreciate you guys being our early adopters, and don't want you to deal with having a problematic unit.



    iPad. A few of you wondered about how SkyPro works with an iPad app. Right now, you can use our iPhone app on all iPads except the first one (which doesn't have a gyroscope for calibration), and we're currently working on a dedicated iPad version. I'm biased of course, but I think you'll find calibration surprisingly easy even with a full-size iPad.



    Finally, I wanted to confirm something that Mlmathews said. Your hunch is correct: our design strategy is to do as much of the calculation in the iPhone app as we can. This allows us to make new features available as an iPhone update, rather than require new hardware. All of your feedback is helpful in deciding where to prioritize our time for future updates. We do have to weigh how much time a particular feature will take, or if it's even possible, but we are certainly listening.



    For example, it seems that Face Angle @ Impact has been mentioned a few times here. The reason it's not represented by a number in the app is because we're not yet comfortable reporting it. The problem we have (which I think is common to all devices that use our type of sensors) is identifying the precise time of impact. I've seen clubfaces closing at over 2000°/s near the ball. At this speed, a tiny 1 ms error in impact time will result in a 2° error in face angle - enough to significantly alter the ball flight. This is why a high sample rate matters so much. We read our sensors at a maximum of 3200 samples per second: overkill for most of the swing, but crucial for resolving impact time accurately. If the ball was always hit cleanly off a tee we'd be in the clear, but, as TheBigGun correctly surmised, fat shots can skew the results. We do correct for fat shots already, but want to be absolutely sure our numbers are accurate in the vast majority of situations before releasing them. Luckily, our partnership with SkyGolf has provided the opportunity to work with some pretty great high speed cameras and other test equipment. I was actually just working yesterday on a new algorithm that will better identify actual ball impact, and it's looking promising so far. So, to summarize: we hear you and will continue to work towards a Face Angle @ Impact number you can trust.



    Hope that helps answer some questions. If you have any more please let me know. Also, I want to apologize to those who pre-ordered and found them in GolfSmith first. Howellhandmade, what you said on this subject is exactly accurate.



    Gord.
    Posted:
  • AnthonyTXAnthonyTX Members  72WRX Points: 0Posts: 72
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    Gord,



    Welcome to the forums! My problem was because my phone was jailbroken. I was unable to connect the BT. Just FYI in case others show up that have the same issue.



    As far as my unit, I hit about 170 swings and started hearing some sort of rattling on my club. All my shots were with the same club. But when I looked at it, it was apparent that my unit was coming apart. Below is a screenshot of your site - I returned my Skypro to the store and got it replaced. I have not hit with my new one yet. But it sounds like theres a few people experiencing units that are coming loose.



    skitch.png?resizeSmall&width=832



    With mine, the 3mm of separation looked like the plastic actually cracked from what I could see. There was what looked like an unusual notch which I assumed to be a crack.
    Posted:
  • AnthonyTXAnthonyTX Members  72WRX Points: 0Posts: 72
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    Gord,



    I thought I recall some sort of mention that there would be Pro level players golf swings within the app. It would be nice to see some in there so we could compare and contrast our own swings to theirs.



    Anthony
    Posted:
  • howellhandmadehowellhandmade Members  865WRX Points: 263Posts: 865 Golden Tee
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    Welcome, Gord! I think it's very helpful and appreciated when the principals in a project like this are willing to deal directly with users. Excellent information. I wish you lots of success and am looking forward to getting my unit.
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  • PinmasterPinmaster Members  244WRX Points: 50Posts: 244 Fairways
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    Welcome, Gord! I think it's very helpful and appreciated when the principals in a project like this are willing to deal directly with users. Excellent information. I wish you lots of success and am looking forward to getting my unit.




    Indeed... Gord is working with me to get mine working. Awesome that the Skypro folks are offering such great support/service for their customers.
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  • SunOfGolfSunOfGolf Members  66WRX Points: 0Posts: 66
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    Hey Gord, Thanks for reaching out. My fix is holding the parts together so far but I'll keep you posted for sure.
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  • MizgoodieMizgoodie golf happy! golf good! Members  1900WRX Points: 56Handicap: 10.8Posts: 1,900 Platinum Tees
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    really liking the groove feature.
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  • poppman2142poppman2142 Members  1243WRX Points: 185Posts: 1,243 Platinum Tees
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    Just a couple of questions....



    Do you need to take off your phone case for accurate calibration?



    Why is tempo not in the groove mode?
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  • OspreyCIOspreyCI Valley of the SunMembers  5442WRX Points: 474Handicap: 10Posts: 5,442 Titanium Tees
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    Will this device help me see my over the top move and help me correct it? Sounds like a dumb question, but that death move had haunted for years and I don't have the extra time and money for lessons. Looking for something to help me on my own.
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  • swingnmissswingnmiss Members  101WRX Points: 0Posts: 101
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    gparke wrote:


    Calibration. Swingnmiss: an update to our app was approved by Apple today that I think will fix your issues with calibration. In a nutshell, we found that some iPhone 4 devices had problems running our calibration algorithm and 3D instructions simultaneously. We optimized the algorithm for the iPhone 4, and made it more robust in case things do slow down. Apple agreed to expedite our review process, so it's on the app store as of today. Sorry, that must have been frustrating. Everyone else: while this calibration fix was intended mostly for the iPhone 4, it should improve calibration on all devices.



    Gord.




    Gord,



    Great to see you on here and responding to some of the concerns. I did update the app yesterday but that was after I came back from the range so haven't tried calibration again. The interesting thing is though that I didn't have much trouble with the rotating the club around your body step when I was on the range but it would never work indoors. Anyways, I'll give it a try with the update and let you know how it goes.
    Posted:
  • PinmasterPinmaster Members  244WRX Points: 50Posts: 244 Fairways
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    OspreyCI wrote:


    Will this device help me see my over the top move and help me correct it? Sounds like a dumb question, but that death move had haunted for years and I don't have the extra time and money for lessons. Looking for something to help me on my own.




    By no means am I smart enough to say how it would work for an instructor looking at the SP data. However, I picked up the Skypro for the same reasons as you mentioned above.



    I will say that with my limited use of the SP thus far... it appears that I can see some swing faults that cause my over the top move. 1 alert in the swing pro is for too far inside takeaway (swing mode) and too far of a back swing when in grove mode. The Plane mode also shows when and where I get off plane and go over the top. While looking at my swing in SP... I can see the same over the top move than a PGA pro showed me on video a year or so ago.



    I do think that the SP would help you see what areas of your swing that you may need to focus on. How to fix the issues? you may have to ask in the instruction area on Golfwrx, try to work them out yourself, or seek a professional opinion.
    Posted:
  • SunOfGolfSunOfGolf Members  66WRX Points: 0Posts: 66
    Joined:  edited May 6, 2013 #205
    Pinmaster wrote:

    OspreyCI wrote:


    Will this device help me see my over the top move and help me correct it? Sounds like a dumb question, but that death move had haunted for years and I don't have the extra time and money for lessons. Looking for something to help me on my own.




    By no means am I smart enough to say how it would work for an instructor looking at the SP data. However, I picked up the Skypro for the same reasons as you mentioned above.



    I will say that with my limited use of the SP thus far... it appears that I can see some swing faults that cause my over the top move. 1 alert in the swing pro is for too far inside takeaway (swing mode) and too far of a back swing when in grove mode. The Plane mode also shows when and where I get off plane and go over the top. While looking at my swing in SP... I can see the same over the top move than a PGA pro showed me on video a year or so ago.



    I do think that the SP would help you see what areas of your swing that you may need to focus on. How to fix the issues? you may have to ask in the instruction area on Golfwrx, try to work them out yourself, or seek a professional opinion.




    For an over the top move, try this... Groove the "Take Away face angle" to 0°, or -3° or -4° , get a good take away happening properly. Do not use arms, just pivot, and stay wide (feel like right arm is straight while going back). Once you got that grooved then make sure your backswing is not too long (groove it-and shoot for less than horizontal, maybe 3/4). Then groove, shaft angle at impact (basically hand position at impact). Make sure your hands return to setup position at impact. From there, you should start to feel what it's like to impact from the "inside". Do those things, and your down swing will come more from big muscles instead of shoulders and arms trying to "hit" the ball. It will feel dramatically different than what you feel now. And you'll know you're on track when you start crushing the ball with less effort, and you should see the swing plane coming from inside when you view a swing in the app.



    YMMV
    Posted:
  • AnthonyTXAnthonyTX Members  72WRX Points: 0Posts: 72
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    Being a newbie I am unsure how that would help you stop topping the ball. I had a few swings that yielded no alerts or just the angle at impact alert... everything else was within bounds and it was a topper.
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  • SunOfGolfSunOfGolf Members  66WRX Points: 0Posts: 66
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    Topping is not the same as coming over-the-top. Over-the-top is an out to in swing path.... If you are topping, you need to start with basic fundamentals of setup in my opinion and basic stability in the swing.
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  • jraschjrasch Members  10WRX Points: 0Posts: 10
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    SunOfGolf wrote:

    Pinmaster wrote:

    OspreyCI wrote:


    Will this device help me see my over the top move and help me correct it? Sounds like a dumb question, but that death move had haunted for years and I don't have the extra time and money for lessons. Looking for something to help me on my own.




    By no means am I smart enough to say how it would work for an instructor looking at the SP data. However, I picked up the Skypro for the same reasons as you mentioned above.



    I will say that with my limited use of the SP thus far... it appears that I can see some swing faults that cause my over the top move. 1 alert in the swing pro is for too far inside takeaway (swing mode) and too far of a back swing when in grove mode. The Plane mode also shows when and where I get off plane and go over the top. While looking at my swing in SP... I can see the same over the top move than a PGA pro showed me on video a year or so ago.



    I do think that the SP would help you see what areas of your swing that you may need to focus on. How to fix the issues? you may have to ask in the instruction area on Golfwrx, try to work them out yourself, or seek a professional opinion.




    For an over the top move, try this... Groove the "Take Away face angle" to 0°, or -3° or -4° , get a good take away happening properly. Do not use arms, just pivot, and stay wide (feel like right arm is straight while going back). Once you got that grooved then make sure your backswing is not too long (groove it-and shoot for less than horizontal, maybe 3/4). Then groove, shaft angle at impact (basically hand position at impact). Make sure your hands return to setup position at impact. From there, you should start to feel what it's like to impact from the "inside". Do those things, and your down swing will come more from big muscles instead of shoulders and arms trying to "hit" the ball. It will feel dramatically different than what you feel now. And you'll know you're on track when you start crushing the ball with less effort, and you should see the swing plane coming from inside when you view a swing in the app.



    YMMV






    I have an outside - In swing also. It's nice to actaully see it on this 3d representation. SunOfGolf for this swing wouldnt it be better to grove the return angle vs the face angle, the face angle can be open or closed even if you are on plane. I think for outside in grove on the return angle would be the most benificial.
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  • SunOfGolfSunOfGolf Members  66WRX Points: 0Posts: 66
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    Try and see what improves it. Since you have the visual respresentation, only you know what works for you. What I described fixed me overnight. The whole swing tends to be a figure-8 usually anyhow, so the take away very much helps determine what happens coming down imo. Just my opinion though. Use your own judgement. I love this grove feature. It literally has helped me fix 80% of my issues in days... Hit the range today (as ive been grooving skypro into a net) and man I was hitting the ball better than ever, compressing everything, and effortlessly!
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  • MizgoodieMizgoodie golf happy! golf good! Members  1900WRX Points: 56Handicap: 10.8Posts: 1,900 Platinum Tees
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    The more i use it the more I like it, working on my review. Will take some videos Tuesday at the range of it in action.... Has anyone compared the swing speeds to trackman or flightscope?
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  • gparkegparke Members  64WRX Points: 30Posts: 64 Bunkers
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    Thanks for the welcoming words!



    AnthonyTX: Thanks for taking the time to post that image. You're right that we have seen a few units with similar issues. The information on this forum has been super helpful in allowing us to quickly diagnose what's going wrong. I appreciate it! I'll look into getting some pro swings for you to compare. The nice thing is that we'll be able to periodically post them online for download (as opposed to having to issue an app update).



    Poppman: Good questions. An iPhone case shouldn't affect calibration as long as it has a relatively flat back. You just want to make sure that the screen is flush with the club face. Actually, a case with a rubber back can actually help prevent the iPhone from slipping during calibration.

    You caught us with the tempo omission. It was planned for the current release, but some other parts of the app took priority and it didn't make it in time. I'll make sure it's included in a future release - I find it one of the most useful groove parameters for my swing.



    SunOfGolf: Awesome to hear groove is helping your swing! The positive feedback means a lot.
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