Underhand toss / Skipping stones swing

Would like to hear from the golfers out there that are using the Underhand toss / Skipping stones swing thought / theory during the swing. What faults and successes you have found with it.

I was working with this today at the range. It really allows for the swing to flow naturally. I think it could simplify the swing and make it more repeatable if one where to keep with it.

You never know what's gonna be your key!

Half underhand,half sidearm right out of" 5 Lessons".When you skip stones you naturally will lead with the right elbow and will retain your right wrist angle until the last moment ,JUST as you should do in the golf swing

My teacher had me throwing range balls down the range like I was skipping stones on my last visit. I was coming out of my posture and hitting a lot of toe shots. I wasn't driving to my left side like I normally do and was instead spinning and standing up. So by getting really low and stepping into the throw to "skip the rock", I had to be on my left leg and keep my arm very low. It worked well. I got the feeling of moving hard left and staying low and it kept me in my posture.

I had never had this problem until I stupidly took a lesson from the "top ranked teacher" in the state of Kentucky according to GD. He had me swaying behind the ball and then "staying behind it". It led to a sorry spin and flip. I knew when I was working with him that it wasn't right, but the little bit of drills etc got me into some bad things quickly.

search youtube for "the secret of the right arm" by ZachAllenGolf

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359646006' post='6336217']
Half underhand,half sidearm right out of" 5 Lessons".When you skip stones you naturally will lead with the right elbow and will retain your right wrist angle until the last moment ,JUST as you should do in the golf swing
[/quote]

Yes, but the question is - does the right arm get thrown totally by the pivot or is there some independent arm action?

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1359656136' post='6337593']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359646006' post='6336217']
Half underhand,half sidearm right out of" 5 Lessons".When you skip stones you naturally will lead with the right elbow and will retain your right wrist angle until the last moment ,JUST as you should do in the golf swing
[/quote]

Yes, but the question is - does the right arm get thrown totally by the pivot or is there some independent arm action?
[/quote]
You tell me
Try throwing a stone with the goal of skipping it as far as possible while a keeping it straight

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359657171' post='6337779']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1359656136' post='6337593']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359646006' post='6336217']
Half underhand,half sidearm right out of" 5 Lessons".When you skip stones you naturally will lead with the right elbow and will retain your right wrist angle until the last moment ,JUST as you should do in the golf swing
[/quote]

Yes, but the question is - does the right arm get thrown totally by the pivot or is there some independent arm action?
[/quote]
You tell me
Try throwing a stone with the goal of skipping it as far as possible while a keeping it straight
[/quote]

Throwing a stone uses independent arm with pivot assist, but a golf swing can do either - Hogan implies independent arm action and also demos it in slo-mo, BUT, there are instructors who teach pivot only - isn't SF in that camp?

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1359657548' post='6337823']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359657171' post='6337779']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1359656136' post='6337593']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359646006' post='6336217']
Half underhand,half sidearm right out of" 5 Lessons".When you skip stones you naturally will lead with the right elbow and will retain your right wrist angle until the last moment ,JUST as you should do in the golf swing
[/quote]

Yes, but the question is - does the right arm get thrown totally by the pivot or is there some independent arm action?
[/quote]
You tell me
Try throwing a stone with the goal of skipping it as far as possible while a keeping it straight
[/quote]

Throwing a stone uses independent arm with pivot assist, but a golf swing can do either - Hogan implies independent arm action and also demos it in slo-mo, BUT, there are instructors who teach pivot only - isn't SF in that camp?
[/quote]
Before i get into the golf material ,i want to understand what you mean by independent arm action in skipping a stone.No doubt my right arm needs to leave my side as i am winding up .Now as i making my throw my hip area has to lead and my right elbow comes close to my right hip .Where does the independent arm action comes in?

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359659659' post='6338145']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1359657548' post='6337823']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359657171' post='6337779']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1359656136' post='6337593']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359646006' post='6336217']
Half underhand,half sidearm right out of" 5 Lessons".When you skip stones you naturally will lead with the right elbow and will retain your right wrist angle until the last moment ,JUST as you should do in the golf swing
[/quote]

Yes, but the question is - does the right arm get thrown totally by the pivot or is there some independent arm action?
[/quote]
You tell me
Try throwing a stone with the goal of skipping it as far as possible while a keeping it straight
[/quote]

Throwing a stone uses independent arm with pivot assist, but a golf swing can do either - Hogan implies independent arm action and also demos it in slo-mo, BUT, there are instructors who teach pivot only - isn't SF in that camp?
[/quote]
Before i get into the golf material ,i want to understand what you mean by independent arm action in skipping a stone.No doubt my right arm needs to leave my side as i am winding up .Now as i making my throw my hip area has to lead and my right elbow comes close to my right hip .Where does the independent arm action comes in?
[/quote]

Right elbow leads and the forearm muscles whip the arm through - you must not have played baseball or even thrown rocks through windows when you were a kid! LOL

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1359664942' post='6338859']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359659659' post='6338145']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1359657548' post='6337823']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359657171' post='6337779']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1359656136' post='6337593']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359646006' post='6336217']
Half underhand,half sidearm right out of" 5 Lessons".When you skip stones you naturally will lead with the right elbow and will retain your right wrist angle until the last moment ,JUST as you should do in the golf swing
[/quote]

Yes, but the question is - does the right arm get thrown totally by the pivot or is there some independent arm action?
[/quote]
You tell me
Try throwing a stone with the goal of skipping it as far as possible while a keeping it straight
[/quote]

Throwing a stone uses independent arm with pivot assist, but a golf swing can do either - Hogan implies independent arm action and also demos it in slo-mo, BUT, there are instructors who teach pivot only - isn't SF in that camp?
[/quote]
Before i get into the golf material ,i want to understand what you mean by independent arm action in skipping a stone.No doubt my right arm needs to leave my side as i am winding up .Now as i making my throw my hip area has to lead and my right elbow comes close to my right hip .Where does the independent arm action comes in?
[/quote]

Right elbow leads and the forearm muscles whip the arm through - you must not have played baseball or even thrown rocks through windows when you were a kid! LOL
[/quote]
Get more specific .I was not a sidearm pitcher .Most of the throws that i made were from a more overhead/high sidearm position . Maybe the windows that you broke were at basement levels,but most windows are much higher and also require more of an overhead throwing action ,which is not what we are talking about here.So you seem to be focusing on the action of the forearm .Now to skip a rock ,what type of forearm action is involved to skip the rock. Is it supination ,pronation?Remember you want to release the stone in a position that it going to skip on the water ,not sink

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359668961' post='6339381']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1359664942' post='6338859']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359659659' post='6338145']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1359657548' post='6337823']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359657171' post='6337779']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1359656136' post='6337593']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359646006' post='6336217']
Half underhand,half sidearm right out of" 5 Lessons".When you skip stones you naturally will lead with the right elbow and will retain your right wrist angle until the last moment ,JUST as you should do in the golf swing
[/quote]

Yes, but the question is - does the right arm get thrown totally by the pivot or is there some independent arm action?
[/quote]
You tell me
Try throwing a stone with the goal of skipping it as far as possible while a keeping it straight
[/quote]

Throwing a stone uses independent arm with pivot assist, but a golf swing can do either - Hogan implies independent arm action and also demos it in slo-mo, BUT, there are instructors who teach pivot only - isn't SF in that camp?
[/quote]
Before i get into the golf material ,i want to understand what you mean by independent arm action in skipping a stone.No doubt my right arm needs to leave my side as i am winding up .Now as i making my throw my hip area has to lead and my right elbow comes close to my right hip .Where does the independent arm action comes in?
[/quote]

Right elbow leads and the forearm muscles whip the arm through - you must not have played baseball or even thrown rocks through windows when you were a kid! LOL
[/quote]
Get more specific .I was not a sidearm pitcher .Most of the throws that i made were from a more overhead/high sidearm position . Maybe the windows that you broke were at basement levels,but most windows are much higher and also require more of an overhead throwing action ,which is not what we are talking about here.So you seem to be focusing on the action of the forearm .Now to skip a rock ,what type of forearm action is involved to skip the rock. Is it supination ,pronation?Remember you want to release the stone in a position that it going to skip on the water ,not sink
[/quote]

In the words of J McEnroe: "You can not be serious!"

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1359670621' post='6339553']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359668961' post='6339381']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1359664942' post='6338859']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359659659' post='6338145']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1359657548' post='6337823']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359657171' post='6337779']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1359656136' post='6337593']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359646006' post='6336217']
Half underhand,half sidearm right out of" 5 Lessons".When you skip stones you naturally will lead with the right elbow and will retain your right wrist angle until the last moment ,JUST as you should do in the golf swing
[/quote]

Yes, but the question is - does the right arm get thrown totally by the pivot or is there some independent arm action?
[/quote]
You tell me
Try throwing a stone with the goal of skipping it as far as possible while a keeping it straight
[/quote]

Throwing a stone uses independent arm with pivot assist, but a golf swing can do either - Hogan implies independent arm action and also demos it in slo-mo, BUT, there are instructors who teach pivot only - isn't SF in that camp?
[/quote]
Before i get into the golf material ,i want to understand what you mean by independent arm action in skipping a stone.No doubt my right arm needs to leave my side as i am winding up .Now as i making my throw my hip area has to lead and my right elbow comes close to my right hip .Where does the independent arm action comes in?
[/quote]

Right elbow leads and the forearm muscles whip the arm through - you must not have played baseball or even thrown rocks through windows when you were a kid! LOL
[/quote]
Get more specific .I was not a sidearm pitcher .Most of the throws that i made were from a more overhead/high sidearm position . Maybe the windows that you broke were at basement levels,but most windows are much higher and also require more of an overhead throwing action ,which is not what we are talking about here.So you seem to be focusing on the action of the forearm .Now to skip a rock ,what type of forearm action is involved to skip the rock. Is it supination ,pronation?Remember you want to release the stone in a position that it going to skip on the water ,not sink
[/quote]

In the words of J McEnroe: "You can not be serious!"
[/quote]
Mr McEnroe was a very talented tennis player but also was one of the biggest crybabies and most obnoxious competitors in the history of his sport or any sport.I think that you can find a more appropiate reference.It is fine to avoid my question ,but you asked the first question about independent arm action.I am trying to determine exactly what independent arm action you think is involved in skipping a rock and then we can progress to the golf swing

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359671111' post='6339595']
we can progress
[/quote]

I'm pretty certain we can't. Why don't I just skip on down the road, kinda like a rock across water.

The independent action is the external rotation of the right humerus bone which puts the forearm on the arc that you are producing force. From there every ounce of effort that straightens the right elbow and flaps the right wrist is right around that arc. No wasted energy.

Sooooo, I guess that's a no, on anyone using it as a main swing thought. I played 18 today with it. Worked well with all shot. It hasn't solved my two way miss with the driver though! Ugh!

[quote name='jsun70' timestamp='1359800129' post='6348575']
Sooooo, I guess that's a no, on anyone using it as a main swing thought. I played 18 today with it. Worked well with all shot. It hasn't solved my two way miss with the driver though! Ugh!
[/quote]

I believe that the "Mike Austin swing" is built around the underhanded throwing action.

I may regret getting involved. Yes that thought of using a trailing elbow leading into the down swing works. If you have an over the top early rrelease flip move this is the exact opposite. This feeling has allowed me to hit the ball with a cupped right wrist and slight bent elbow, a very flush feeling at impact

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359668961' post='6339381']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1359664942' post='6338859']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359659659' post='6338145']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1359657548' post='6337823']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359657171' post='6337779']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1359656136' post='6337593']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359646006' post='6336217']
Half underhand,half sidearm right out of" 5 Lessons".When you skip stones you naturally will lead with the right elbow and will retain your right wrist angle until the last moment ,JUST as you should do in the golf swing
[/quote]

Yes, but the question is - does the right arm get thrown totally by the pivot or is there some independent arm action?
[/quote]
You tell me
Try throwing a stone with the goal of skipping it as far as possible while a keeping it straight
[/quote]

Throwing a stone uses independent arm with pivot assist, but a golf swing can do either - Hogan implies independent arm action and also demos it in slo-mo, BUT, there are instructors who teach pivot only - isn't SF in that camp?
[/quote]
Before i get into the golf material ,i want to understand what you mean by independent arm action in skipping a stone.No doubt my right arm needs to leave my side as i am winding up .Now as i making my throw my hip area has to lead and my right elbow comes close to my right hip .Where does the independent arm action comes in?
[/quote]

Right elbow leads and the forearm muscles whip the arm through - you must not have played baseball or even thrown rocks through windows when you were a kid! LOL
[/quote]
Get more specific .I was not a sidearm pitcher .Most of the throws that i made were from a more overhead/high sidearm position . Maybe the windows that you broke were at basement levels,but most windows are much higher and also require more of an overhead throwing action ,which is not what we are talking about here.So you seem to be focusing on the action of the forearm .Now to skip a rock ,what type of forearm action is involved to skip the rock. Is it supination ,pronation?Remember you want to release the stone in a position that it going to skip on the water ,not sink
[/quote]

Russc-
I've never skipped a stone so I don't actually know if you supinate or pronate your right forearm. I've heard of this 'skipping the stone' analogy before (Shawn clement) but never really understood it. Can you explain? Thanks.

You tube "Mike Austin golf swing". He used the underhand toss in his swing. It is the best way I have found to swing. Check out DJ Watts at Djwattsgolf.com, Steve Pratt at hititlonger.com, Chuck at Mentoredbythelegend.com, Jacob Bowden at swingmangolf.com and the Mike Austin facebook page. Also look at the swing of Mike Dunaway. There is definitely an under ground community of Mike Austin swing believers.

There are many ways to swing the golf club. Every swing theory has some merit. I have used many of them. The Mike Austin swing takes time and work like all swings: but for power, accuracy, and low stress on the body the Austin style swing will be my swing model.

Good luck on your swing,

Ball game

Thank you gentlemen for all of your input. It's been very helpful.

I'm finding in researching this move. That the underhand toss/skipping stone idea, leads to a close right elbow to the right hip on downswing and through impact. Of all the varying swings on the PGA. This appears to be one of the most common positions they all share.

So, now the question becomes. Is the right elbow to right hip the magic to distance and accuracy?

[quote name='Tdangv' timestamp='1359853462' post='6352021']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359668961' post='6339381']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1359664942' post='6338859']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359659659' post='6338145']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1359657548' post='6337823']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359657171' post='6337779']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1359656136' post='6337593']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359646006' post='6336217']
Half underhand,half sidearm right out of" 5 Lessons".When you skip stones you naturally will lead with the right elbow and will retain your right wrist angle until the last moment ,JUST as you should do in the golf swing
[/quote]

Yes, but the question is - does the right arm get thrown totally by the pivot or is there some independent arm action?
[/quote]
You tell me
Try throwing a stone with the goal of skipping it as far as possible while a keeping it straight
[/quote]

Throwing a stone uses independent arm with pivot assist, but a golf swing can do either - Hogan implies independent arm action and also demos it in slo-mo, BUT, there are instructors who teach pivot only - isn't SF in that camp?
[/quote]
Before i get into the golf material ,i want to understand what you mean by independent arm action in skipping a stone.No doubt my right arm needs to leave my side as i am winding up .Now as i making my throw my hip area has to lead and my right elbow comes close to my right hip .Where does the independent arm action comes in?
[/quote]

Right elbow leads and the forearm muscles whip the arm through - you must not have played baseball or even thrown rocks through windows when you were a kid! LOL
[/quote]
Get more specific .I was not a sidearm pitcher .Most of the throws that i made were from a more overhead/high sidearm position . Maybe the windows that you broke were at basement levels,but most windows are much higher and also require more of an overhead throwing action ,which is not what we are talking about here.So you seem to be focusing on the action of the forearm .Now to skip a rock ,what type of forearm action is involved to skip the rock. Is it supination ,pronation?Remember you want to release the stone in a position that it going to skip on the water ,not sink
[/quote]

Russc-
I've never skipped a stone so I don't actually know if you supinate or pronate your right forearm. I've heard of this 'skipping the stone' analogy before (Shawn clement) but never really understood it. Can you explain? Thanks.
[/quote]
You take a stone with at least 1 flat side and throw it in such a way that the flat side of the stone is parallel to the surface of the water, resulting in skimmming and skipping on the surface of the water a number of times until it sank.This motion requires is a combination sidearm/underhand toss in order to start the stone on a shallow angle towards the water .Rotation of the forearm is discouraged as this will cause the stone to rotate and prevent the flat side of the stone from entering the water first..The analogy to golf is that during the early downswing,the right elbow should come closer to the torso and should be on a relatively shallow angle of approach

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359904285' post='6354497']
[quote name='Tdangv' timestamp='1359853462' post='6352021']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359668961' post='6339381']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1359664942' post='6338859']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359659659' post='6338145']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1359657548' post='6337823']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359657171' post='6337779']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1359656136' post='6337593']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1359646006' post='6336217']
Half underhand,half sidearm right out of" 5 Lessons".When you skip stones you naturally will lead with the right elbow and will retain your right wrist angle until the last moment ,JUST as you should do in the golf swing
[/quote]

Yes, but the question is - does the right arm get thrown totally by the pivot or is there some independent arm action?
[/quote]
You tell me
Try throwing a stone with the goal of skipping it as far as possible while a keeping it straight
[/quote]

Throwing a stone uses independent arm with pivot assist, but a golf swing can do either - Hogan implies independent arm action and also demos it in slo-mo, BUT, there are instructors who teach pivot only - isn't SF in that camp?
[/quote]
Before i get into the golf material ,i want to understand what you mean by independent arm action in skipping a stone.No doubt my right arm needs to leave my side as i am winding up .Now as i making my throw my hip area has to lead and my right elbow comes close to my right hip .Where does the independent arm action comes in?
[/quote]

Right elbow leads and the forearm muscles whip the arm through - you must not have played baseball or even thrown rocks through windows when you were a kid! LOL
[/quote]
Get more specific .I was not a sidearm pitcher .Most of the throws that i made were from a more overhead/high sidearm position . Maybe the windows that you broke were at basement levels,but most windows are much higher and also require more of an overhead throwing action ,which is not what we are talking about here.So you seem to be focusing on the action of the forearm .Now to skip a rock ,what type of forearm action is involved to skip the rock. Is it supination ,pronation?Remember you want to release the stone in a position that it going to skip on the water ,not sink
[/quote]

Russc-
I've never skipped a stone so I don't actually know if you supinate or pronate your right forearm. I've heard of this 'skipping the stone' analogy before (Shawn clement) but never really understood it. Can you explain? Thanks.
[/quote]
You take a stone with at least 1 flat side and throw it in such a way that the flat side of the stone is parallel to the surface of the water, resulting in skimmming and skipping on the surface of the water a number of times until it sank.This motion requires is a combination sidearm/underhand toss in order to start the stone on a shallow angle towards the water .Rotation of the forearm is discouraged as this will cause the stone to rotate and prevent the flat side of the stone from entering the water first..The analogy to golf is that during the early downswing,the right elbow should come closer to the torso and should be on a relatively shallow angle of approach
[/quote]

So on the downswing, you are saying that the right forearm/elbow is supinated as long as possible until the body turn 'releases' the rotation of the forearm?

Raising up this dead thread but I've tinkered a lot with this 'skipping a stone' throwing motion/thought on the range with mixed results in the past. When it's on, boy do I pound the ball and it feels so nice off the club face. Pure ball first contact with a high and piercing trajectory with that pounded sound. The misses however, is a snap hook to hades (hybrids and above). Today's range session was to stop myself from swinging too fast with this motion and I also experimented with grip changes. What seemed to work is a strong lead (left for me) grip and a neutral trail (right). I made sure I allowed the right wrist to properly c0ck/hinge in the BS and envisioned side arming this rock at the shoulder-to-ball plane down the range. Hooks came when my right wrist was released (loss of dorsiflexion) too early by swinging too hard. I've had issues leading with the elbow but this thought definitely helps me achieve this.

Anyone else uses this skipping stone thought as the main swing thought?

Edit: As an aside, feeling the shaft grip on my right 'trigger' finger lets me know where the shaft and face is (more than usually).

[quote name='tinman143' timestamp='1389914772' post='8474007']
Raising up this dead thread but I've tinkered a lot with this 'skipping a stone' throwing motion/thought on the range with mixed results in the past. When it's on, boy do I pound the ball and it feels so nice off the club face. Pure ball first contact with a high and piercing trajectory with that pounded sound. The misses however, is a snap hook to hades (hybrids and above). Today's range session was to stop myself from swinging too fast with this motion and I also experimented with grip changes. What seemed to work is a strong lead (left for me) grip and a neutral trail (right). I made sure I allowed the right wrist to properly c0ck/hinge in the BS and envisioned side arming this rock at the shoulder-to-ball plane down the range. Hooks came when my right wrist was released (loss of dorsiflexion) too early by swinging too hard. I've had issues leading with the elbow but this thought definitely helps me achieve this.

Anyone else uses this skipping stone thought as the main swing thought?

Edit: As an aside, feeling the shaft grip on my right 'trigger' finger lets me know where the shaft and face is (more than usually).
[/quote]

I've been having online lessons with Monte and he's been getting me to lead with the right (trail) elbow, which is an effort to shallow the club on the downswing. When I lead with the elbow, it is very much like that skipping stones technique. So, it is probably a good thing to try and feel like you 'skip the stone' during the downswing.

It's very early days for me so far, and I haven't got to the range to try it out with a bucket of balls - I've just been making some swings in the back garden to get used to the feeling/movement.

Its hard to do with a "normal" back swing because your hands haven't got far enough behind you, you would have to re-route your hands like A. Quiros.
Much easier with a deep hands take-away like Hogan or Snead.

[quote name='PJ72' timestamp='1389915896' post='8474157']
I've been having online lessons with Monte and he's been getting me to lead with the right (trail) elbow, which is an effort to shallow the club on the downswing. When I lead with the elbow, it is very much like that skipping stones technique. So, it is probably a good thing to try and feel like you 'skip the stone' during the downswing.

It's very early days for me so far, and I haven't got to the range to try it out with a bucket of balls - I've just been making some swings in the back garden to get used to the feeling/movement.
[/quote]

Give it a try. It definitely gives me that feeling of elbow leading and shaft shallowing but I haven't verified on vid.

[quote name='Pinsplitter59' timestamp='1389917167' post='8474283']
Its hard to do with a "normal" back swing because your hands haven't got far enough behind you, you would have to re-route your hands like A. Quiros.
Much easier with a deep hands take-away like Hogan or Snead.
[/quote]

Not qualified to agree/disagree with you here. For me, with this swing thought it really helps me 'see' the plane that my arms need to be on for each club and also forces me to c0ck/hinge my right wrist early in the BS (which also shortens my other issue of overswing). Will go back to the range again tomorrow to experiment.

I may regret getting involved. Yes that thought of using a trailing elbow leading into the down swing works. If you have an over the top early rrelease flip move this is the exact opposite. This feeling has allowed me to hit the ball with a cupped right wrist and slight bent elbow, a very flush feeling at impact

What's not being mentioned here(maybe with good reason?) is that this rotation of the trailing elbow is sort of chicken and egg tied in with the hip rotation toward the target. It's that hip clearing which in my opinion is so so critical to a good repeating swing. Personally I think the rotating stone skimming motion of the trailing arm in the dynamic sequence of the downswing initiates that hip clearing. But even if it's biomechanically the reverse good things happen.

The hard part is feeling that initial transition move. Once the stone leaves and the golf club takes its place it's much harder to feel.