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Updated 2013 Trackman PGA Tour Averages

 QMany ·  
QManyQMany #TheWRXClubWRX  9191WRX Points: 304Handicap: +2.5Posts: 9,191 ClubWRX
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TM2013_Stats.jpg
Posted:
Currently in #TheWRX...

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Callaway XR Pro (20°) Diamana White 90X
Callaway Apex Pro (4i-PW) DG X100 TI
Ping Glide 2.0 (50° & 54°) DG S400 TI
Artisan MT Grind (58°) DG S400
Odyssey O Works R-Line
Taylormade TP5X

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Comments

  • DNice26DNice26 Members  4283WRX Points: 198Posts: 4,283 Titanium Tees
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    -1.3 attack......huh....would have thought it would be more positive. Launch angle average is also sort of lowish I would think...<br />
    <br />
    Thanks for posting.
    Posted:

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  • scratchswingerscratchswinger Members  16493WRX Points: 362Posts: 16,493 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Apr 18, 2013 #3
    Thanks for posting this... I am essentially below average...
    Posted:
  • geesecougar2geesecougar2 Members  2079WRX Points: 150Handicap: 6Posts: 2,079 Platinum Tees
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    -5 for the PW? That seems really shallow to me.<br />
    <br />
    Maybe that's why I take dinnerplates with my PW
    Posted:
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  • MonteScheinblumMonteScheinblum Rebellion Golf Southern CaliforniaMembers  19091WRX Points: 1,754Posts: 19,091 Titanium Tees
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    DNice26 wrote:
    <br />
    -1.3 attack......huh....would have thought it would be more positive. Launch angle average is also sort of lowish I would think...<br />
    <br />
    Thanks for posting.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Plus angle with driver might be technically optimal for distance, it is not necessarily and likely not for accuracy.
    Posted:
  • sonofagunnsonofagunn Members  793WRX Points: 0Posts: 793
    Joined:  #6
    So I'm one club shorter than PGA average. Not bad considering...<br />
    <br />
    Biggest difference is my launch is much higher, yet vertical descent isn't as steep with irons. Less backspin. Not suprising, and it validates what I'm trying to work on.
    Posted:
  • QManyQMany #TheWRX ClubWRX  9191WRX Points: 304Handicap: +2.5Posts: 9,191 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #7
    I'm essentially right on most of the PGA Tour averages. Admittedly, I probably overswing. LOL<br />
    <br />
    Depends a little on lofts too.
    Posted:
    Currently in #TheWRX...

    Taylormade M3 460 (9.5°) Tensei CK Pro Orange 70TX
    Taylormade SLDR Mini (14°) Matrix White Tie 70X
    Callaway XR Pro (20°) Diamana White 90X
    Callaway Apex Pro (4i-PW) DG X100 TI
    Ping Glide 2.0 (50° & 54°) DG S400 TI
    Artisan MT Grind (58°) DG S400
    Odyssey O Works R-Line
    Taylormade TP5X

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  • Lefty_3JackLefty_3Jack St. LouisMembers  1636WRX Points: 181Handicap: 3.2Posts: 1,636 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #8
    <br />
    -5 for the PW? That seems really shallow to me.<br />
    <br />
    Maybe that's why I take dinnerplates with my PW<br />
    <br />
    Yea I feel like my swing really sucks now. Did a fitting last week and averaged -9.2* with a 7i.
    Posted:
    In search of solid contact...
  • tembolo1284tembolo1284 Boom Boom Banned  20715WRX Points: 1Handicap: BeefPosts: 20,715 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #9
    Ugh I need to work on my launch numbers. I'm throwing away my swing speed by hacking down on it too much.<br />
    <br />
    Is it end of May yet?
    Posted:
  • bruinsPATSirishbruinsPATSirish Golf is hard. Members  6429WRX Points: 4Posts: 6,429 Titanium Tees
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    Well my numbers match up pretty solid, too bad my game only matches up with them about once a month...
    Posted:
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  • mgranatomgranato Members  1078WRX Points: 4Posts: 1,078 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Apr 18, 2013 #11
    Do you have a link to that chart? I believe this might be old data... 3 wood - PW numbers are identical to 2009 numbers across the board. The driver data is fractionally different compared to the 2009. Cannot imagine every club, down the the exact spin rate, has not changed in 4 years. Swing speeds HAVE NOT been the same since 2009 according to other TM data.
    Posted:
  • andre112andre112 Members  326WRX Points: 65Posts: 326 Greens
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    only driver and hybrid have different numbers comparing to the old chart
    Posted:
    Why do you care what's in my bag or my handicap?
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  • midwestonmidweston I should have taken up fishing.... Members  1545WRX Points: 92Posts: 1,545 Platinum Tees
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    I wonder what the average roll out numbers are on the driver?
    Posted:
  • kekoakekoa ClubWRX  9406WRX Points: 893Handicap: 4-20Posts: 9,406 ClubWRX
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    I'm a good 1 club short on everything. Especially from 5i - down. <img src='http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />
    Posted:
  • mallratmallrat Members  3339WRX Points: 477Posts: 3,339 Titanium Tees
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    I'd like to see path numbers
    Posted:
  • QManyQMany #TheWRX ClubWRX  9191WRX Points: 304Handicap: +2.5Posts: 9,191 ClubWRX
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    mgranato wrote:
    <br />
    Do you have a link to that chart? I believe this might be old data... 3 wood - PW numbers are identical to 2009 numbers across the board. The driver data is fractionally different compared to the 2009. Cannot imagine every club, down the the exact spin rate, has not changed in 4 years. Swing speeds HAVE NOT been the same since 2009 according to other TM data.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    The PDF is available on their website. You just have to signup (free). <br />
    <br />
    Someone on Twitter asked: @TrackManGolf[background=rgb(246, 246, 246)] Looks like only the driver numbers changed for both tours?[/background]<br />
    They answered: TrackMan Golf@TrackManGolf: True, it was only a minor update data wise. We changed the format to pdf so it can be printed to go.
    Posted:
    Currently in #TheWRX...

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    Ping Glide 2.0 (50° & 54°) DG S400 TI
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  • AsleepAsleep Marshals  9056WRX Points: 6Posts: 9,056 Marshals
    Joined:  edited Apr 19, 2013 #17
    So, I'm only 4 clubs shorter than Gary Woodland. Cool. <img src='http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/beach.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':beach:' />
    Posted:
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  • InaSilentWayInaSilentWay Members  260WRX Points: 0Posts: 260
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    How on earth does one get a -5 degree aoa with a PW? I wouldn't be suprised if mine was 20-30 degrees.
    Posted:
  • Evil EcstasyEvil Ecstasy Members  197WRX Points: 0Posts: 197
    Joined:  #19
    too bad we dont see roll
    Posted:
  • nikuknikuk Members  300WRX Points: 61Handicap: 11.6Posts: 300 Greens
    Joined:  #20
    <br />
    How on earth does one get a -5 degree aoa with a PW? I wouldn't be suprised if mine was 20-30 degrees.<br />
    if thats positive than you have an incredible flip.
    Posted:

    Comfort brings trust, trust brings consistency, consistency drops indexes.

  • bph7bph7 Banned  5719WRX Points: 1Posts: 5,719 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #21
    <br />
    How on earth does one get a -5 degree aoa with a PW? I wouldn't be suprised if mine was 20-30 degrees.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I don't think its a big secret that shallower attack angles lead to more consistent contact and more controllable ball-flight. Especially if going into the wind, hitting way down into it is just gonna balloon it up into the air. Also, the steaper AOA's inherently will lead to more thin/fat shots when the ball is not struck exactly in the right place. If you have a shallow angle, its not quick as important to be as precise in where along the path you contact the ball, as the clubhead is in an "acceptable" area to produce at least passable contact for more of its path. Finally, pivot and body-release driven swings, which are more repeatable usually, tend to have shallower AOA's and a lot of tour players, who dont rely on their hands as much to square the face, would tend to have characteristics like this in their swings.
    Posted:
  • highergr0undhighergr0und Members  10277WRX Points: 311Posts: 10,277 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #22
    Those numbers are awesome. So consistent. Look at the shot heights.... for everyone that wants to hit driver low it's tied with 7 iron for the highest apex of all the clubs. <br />
    <br />
    Just remember that these guys play for control. You can deloft the heck out of a high lofted club and dump it into the ground at a severe angle, but can you do it the same every time?
    Posted:
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  • YepyukonYepyukon Hinge + Hold Members  4134WRX Points: 150Handicap: 1.2Posts: 4,134 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Apr 19, 2013 #23
    Thanks for posting this.<br />
    <br />
    Odd, my hybrid - 6iron carry distances are about the same but I am about a club shorter with Driver, 3 wood, and 7iron - pw
    Posted:
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  • GolfrnutGolfrnut Members  7646WRX Points: 464Posts: 7,646 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #24
    bph7 wrote:
    <br />
    <br />
    How on earth does one get a -5 degree aoa with a PW? I wouldn't be suprised if mine was 20-30 degrees.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I don't think its a big secret that shallower attack angles lead to more consistent contact and more controllable ball-flight. Especially if going into the wind, hitting way down into it is just gonna balloon it up into the air. Also, the steaper AOA's inherently will lead to more thin/fat shots when the ball is not struck exactly in the right place. If you have a shallow angle, its not quick as important to be as precise in where along the path you contact the ball, as the clubhead is in an "acceptable" area to produce at least passable contact for more of its path. Finally, pivot and body-release driven swings, which are more repeatable usually, tend to have shallower AOA's and a lot of tour players, who dont rely on their hands as much to square the face, would tend to have characteristics like this in their swings.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Hitting down "more" does not increase launch.
    Posted:
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  • bph7bph7 Banned  5719WRX Points: 1Posts: 5,719 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #25
    Golfrnut wrote:
    <br />
    bph7 wrote:
    <br />
    <br />
    How on earth does one get a -5 degree aoa with a PW? I wouldn't be suprised if mine was 20-30 degrees.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I don't think its a big secret that shallower attack angles lead to more consistent contact and more controllable ball-flight. Especially if going into the wind, hitting way down into it is just gonna balloon it up into the air. Also, the steaper AOA's inherently will lead to more thin/fat shots when the ball is not struck exactly in the right place. If you have a shallow angle, its not quick as important to be as precise in where along the path you contact the ball, as the clubhead is in an "acceptable" area to produce at least passable contact for more of its path. Finally, pivot and body-release driven swings, which are more repeatable usually, tend to have shallower AOA's and a lot of tour players, who dont rely on their hands as much to square the face, would tend to have characteristics like this in their swings.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Hitting down "more" does not increase launch.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I guess I wasn't clear enough. You are right that hitting down more doesn't increase launch directly. But a more negative AOA for a constant dynamic loft is going to result in a higher spin loft. This will increase spin and decrease ballspeed. This is why the ball balloons up in the air into the wind more if you hit down more into it.
    Posted:
  • radimanradiman Members  4891WRX Points: 417Handicap: 3.8Posts: 4,891 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #26
    Interesting data. Makes me feel a little better being close to the tour average on most clubs. <img src='http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Thank God dispersion isn't listed, that would just kill my buzz.
    Posted:
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  • GolfrnutGolfrnut Members  7646WRX Points: 464Posts: 7,646 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #27
    bph7 wrote:
    <br />
    Golfrnut wrote:
    <br />
    bph7 wrote:
    <br />
    <br />
    How on earth does one get a -5 degree aoa with a PW? I wouldn't be suprised if mine was 20-30 degrees.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I don't think its a big secret that shallower attack angles lead to more consistent contact and more controllable ball-flight. Especially if going into the wind, hitting way down into it is just gonna balloon it up into the air. Also, the steaper AOA's inherently will lead to more thin/fat shots when the ball is not struck exactly in the right place. If you have a shallow angle, its not quick as important to be as precise in where along the path you contact the ball, as the clubhead is in an "acceptable" area to produce at least passable contact for more of its path. Finally, pivot and body-release driven swings, which are more repeatable usually, tend to have shallower AOA's and a lot of tour players, who dont rely on their hands as much to square the face, would tend to have characteristics like this in their swings.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Hitting down "more" does not increase launch.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I guess I wasn't clear enough. You are right that hitting down more doesn't increase launch directly. But a more negative AOA for a constant dynamic loft is going to result in a higher spin loft. This will increase spin and decrease ballspeed. This is why the ball balloons up in the air into the wind more if you hit down more into it.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Now I follow. <img src='http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
    Posted:
    TM M3 440 w/ Speeder Evo II 6.1 TS
    TM M4 13.5 "Small Version"  w/ BB S+ 70
    Taylormade P790 2 UDI w/ DG 105R or M3 19* 5W w/ BB S+ 70
    Taylormade P790 3 Iron w/ DG AMT White R300
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    Callaway MD3 52* & 58* PM grind
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  • PutterKilledTheDreamPutterKilledTheDream San DiegoMembers  3337WRX Points: 128Posts: 3,337 Titanium Tees
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    bph7 wrote:
    <br />
    Golfrnut wrote:
    <br />
    bph7 wrote:
    <br />
    <br />
    How on earth does one get a -5 degree aoa with a PW? I wouldn't be suprised if mine was 20-30 degrees.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I don't think its a big secret that shallower attack angles lead to more consistent contact and more controllable ball-flight. Especially if going into the wind, hitting way down into it is just gonna balloon it up into the air. Also, the steaper AOA's inherently will lead to more thin/fat shots when the ball is not struck exactly in the right place. If you have a shallow angle, its not quick as important to be as precise in where along the path you contact the ball, as the clubhead is in an "acceptable" area to produce at least passable contact for more of its path. Finally, pivot and body-release driven swings, which are more repeatable usually, tend to have shallower AOA's and a lot of tour players, who dont rely on their hands as much to square the face, would tend to have characteristics like this in their swings.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Hitting down "more" does not increase launch.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I guess I wasn't clear enough. You are right that hitting down more doesn't increase launch directly. But a more negative AOA for a constant dynamic loft is going to result in a higher spin loft. This will increase spin and decrease ballspeed. This is why the ball balloons up in the air into the wind more if you hit down more into it.<br />
    That statement is a bit misleading in that there really is no 'constant' dynamic loft with a change in AoA. More negative AoA usually leads to decreased dynamic lofts, hence no real change to the spin loft.
    Posted:
  • bph7bph7 Banned  5719WRX Points: 1Posts: 5,719 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #29
    <br />
    That statement is a bit misleading in that there really is no 'constant' dynamic loft with a change in AoA. More negative AoA usually leads to decreased dynamic lofts, hence no real change to the spin loft.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    You know more about this than me, so a question: Couldn't you be coming down at a steeper angle, but have the club more even with your hands (like if you were flipping), so the difference between dynamic loft and AoA would still be greater than if you were in a better impact position, with your hands ahead of the ball and a shallower AoA? I understand that AoA will lower dynamic lofts, but is it really ALWAYS going to lower dynamic loft by the EXACT amount of the change in AoA such that spin loft won't ever be affected? If this is so, then what is the point of measuring spin loft? Wouldn't dynamic loft be the only piece of information you need to figure out spin info, if spin loft isn't gonna change as AoA changes?
    Posted:
  • PutterKilledTheDreamPutterKilledTheDream San DiegoMembers  3337WRX Points: 128Posts: 3,337 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #30
    Really good question. The answer is no, there is no perfect scenario where for every 1* down you lose 1* of loft. A higher handicap player could potentially flip and hit down more, but the better player typically has significant shaft lean. Even further, the more you hit down the more you increase the chance of catching the ball lower on the face which causes the clubhead to roll over the ball ( i.e. vertical gear effect) which reduces the dyamic loft even further. Spin is mostly a result of clubhead speed, impact location, ball type, and quality of grooves....spin loft is more a measurement of compression or energy transfer to the ball. The higher the number the more 'glancing' the blow and less direct of a hit.<br />
    <br />
    dynamic loft- attack angle really translates to mean the effective energy of the angle of the club ( loft) pulling the ball up the face working against the energy of the clubhead moving downward trying to pull the ball down. Opposing 'energies' working different directions causes slower ball speed, more spin, less carry distance. In my experience with Trackman, ball type affects spin rates more than changes to spin loft.
    Posted:
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  • sonofagunnsonofagunn Members  793WRX Points: 0Posts: 793
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    radiman wrote:
    <br />
    Interesting data. Makes me feel a little better being close to the tour average on most clubs. <img src='http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Thank God dispersion isn't listed, that would just kill my buzz.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    <br />
    +1000
    Posted:
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