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How many scratch players are TRUELY scratch players ????


ProBowler

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I got paired with 2 golfers in a tournament last week and they both were in the Championship division and they came in at +2 and a +1 ........ They shot 86 and a 91 respectfully ........ the tournament director knows both of them and he said they both were probably around an 8 handicap at best !!!

 

So my question is ........ Why turn in false scores to boost your handicap ???

 

Just to be called a " scratch " golfer ???

Is it an ego thing ??

I just don't get it .........

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On the other hand, would you want a 2 HCP playing in a grouping of 10 to 14 hcp"s.

I fear the sandbagger more that the fool that wants to over state their game.

Then again, it is never a given that those at that level cannot have a bad day. Look at some of the guys on the PGA tour? I am thinking Kevin Na, HMMMMMMM

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[quote name='ProBowler' timestamp='1369960373' post='7139312']
I got paired with 2 golfers in a tournament last week and they both were in the Championship division and they came in at +2 and a +1 ........ They shot 86 and a 91 respectfully ........ the tournament director knows both of them and he said they both were probably around an 8 handicap at best !!!

So my question is ........ Why turn in false scores to boost your handicap ???

Just to be called a " scratch " golfer ???
Is it an ego thing ??
I just don't get it .........
[/quote]

I don't get it either. These guys, as well as sandbaggers. Play your game, post your true scores. End of story.

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i've never met anyone in the +1 to 3 range who couldn't play.

I shot 88 in our club championship last year as a 1.2

I wonder how many threads got started about me and my lying ways. "i played with this 1 in the club championship (yeah right) who shot an 88....why do guys lie to get into the A flight?"

I guess some guys genuinely lie about their scores. But 95% of the time it's the other way around. I've run into faaaaaaarrrrrr more sandbaggers

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Bad rounds do happen, you see it on the PGA tour all the time. A few tournements ago Roberto Castro shot a 61 to tie the course record. Next day he shot a 76 which is 15 shots higher.

I realize there are guys out there that will lie about anything and everything. Just be glad God did not give you their brain !!!!!

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People don't realize that scratch just means the average of your BEST HALF of you scores is equal to the course rating. I am currently at +1.7 but does that mean I am shooting under par every time I get on the course? Absolutely not. On my good days I am at or below the course rating, on my bad days, who knows because it really doesn't matter in this handicap system. Heck, I shot 85 waking up at 5 am and playing in the rain and cold the other week in a tournament, I guess I'm not a real scratch then? Amateur golfers also tend to play the same one or two courses a majority of the time so you'll find that a lot of guys' handicaps "don't travel well." There's a far greater likelihood that I am going to put up a low score on my home course during a casual round in conditions that are favorable to me. And most of my posted scores are just that.

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[quote name='ProBowler' timestamp='1369960373' post='7139312']
I got paired with 2 golfers in a tournament last week and they both were in the Championship division and they came in at +2 and a +1 ........ They shot 86 and a 91 respectfully ........ the tournament director knows both of them and he said they both were probably around an 8 handicap at best !!!

So my question is ........ Why turn in false scores to boost your handicap ???

Just to be called a " scratch " golfer ???
Is it an ego thing ??
I just don't get it .........
[/quote]I think you're correct in thinking it must be an ego thing! I've been a caddy at Merion for the last 4 years and the vast majority of players who claim to be scratch don't come close to breaking 80.

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[quote name='JJK947' timestamp='1369967170' post='7140180']
People don't realize that scratch just means the average of your BEST HALF of you scores is equal to the course rating. I am currently at +1.7 but does that mean I am shooting under par every time I get on the course? Absolutely not. On my good days I am at or below the course rating, on my bad days, who knows because it really doesn't matter in this handicap system. Heck, I shot 85 waking up at 5 am and playing in the rain and cold the other week in a tournament, I guess I'm not a real scratch then? Amateur golfers also tend to play the same one or two courses a majority of the time so you'll find that a lot of guys' handicaps "don't travel well." There's a far greater likelihood that I am going to put up a low score on my home course during a casual round in conditions that are favorable to me. And most of my posted scores are just that.
[/quote]

But honestly ....... You could tell by their swings that they were not even close to being scratch

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The way the handicapping system is going (well in AUS at least), the best 8 rounds are added, the divided by 8 and multiplied by .93.. In short less than half your scores can be at scratch or better and you will have an index that reflects that!!! It's ludicrous..

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I'll take the faux scratch golfer firing a 90 and getting laughed at over the 12 handi firing a 78 and stealing everyones money.

Working at a semiprivate club that has a serious "sandbagger" community is annoying, but hey that is why I don't play the members for money!

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[quote name='ProBowler' timestamp='1369968171' post='7140290']
[quote name='JJK947' timestamp='1369967170' post='7140180']
People don't realize that scratch just means the average of your BEST HALF of you scores is equal to the course rating. I am currently at +1.7 but does that mean I am shooting under par every time I get on the course? Absolutely not. On my good days I am at or below the course rating, on my bad days, who knows because it really doesn't matter in this handicap system. Heck, I shot 85 waking up at 5 am and playing in the rain and cold the other week in a tournament, I guess I'm not a real scratch then? Amateur golfers also tend to play the same one or two courses a majority of the time so you'll find that a lot of guys' handicaps "don't travel well." There's a far greater likelihood that I am going to put up a low score on my home course during a casual round in conditions that are favorable to me. And most of my posted scores are just that.
[/quote]

But honestly ....... You could tell by their swings that they were not even close to being scratch
[/quote]

Swings don't necessarily tell you anything. See: Tommy Gainey

I've seen a lot of honest/competitive scratch/+ players who maybe don't have textbook swings...in fact, you also see a lot of the opposite...pretty swings that rarely break 80 -

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[quote name='JJK947' timestamp='1369967170' post='7140180']
People don't realize that scratch just means the average of your BEST HALF of you scores is equal to the course rating. I am currently at +1.7 but does that mean I am shooting under par every time I get on the course? Absolutely not. On my good days I am at or below the course rating, on my bad days, who knows because it really doesn't matter in this handicap system. Heck, I shot 85 waking up at 5 am and playing in the rain and cold the other week in a tournament, I guess I'm not a real scratch then? Amateur golfers also tend to play the same one or two courses a majority of the time so you'll find that a lot of guys' handicaps "don't travel well." There's a far greater likelihood that I am going to put up a low score on my home course during a casual round in conditions that are favorable to me. And most of my posted scores are just that.
[/quote]This is also very true and very well written.

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Reverse baggers are ego and image obsessed, easy money games all day long. They have one excuse after another, kinda sad actually. Having said that, every single good stick out there has the wheels come off here and there. That's what happens when life gets in the way and your mind wonders, for me I get lazy and the numbers start to add up...BB

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[quote name='ProBowler' timestamp='1369970661' post='7140540']
But these guys do it so they can tell all their buddies that they are scratch and play in US Am and US Open qualifiers !!!

Ego
[/quote]

Yeah definitely ego. Although it takes an interesting type of person who would enjoy dropping a couple hundred dollars to play in these and publicly humiliate yourself.

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Players with legitimate + or scratch handicaps reputation's precede them.

It works like this:
"Such Andsuch is playing in this tournament."
"What's his handicap?"
"I don't know, but he's won the _______ Invitational (or qualified for something)."

-NOT-
"There's a guy playing in this tournament with a +2 handicap."
"Who is it? Where's he from?"
"I don't know. I've never heard of him."

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One of my regular playing partners is a 5 capper, and he's the best golfer I play with regularly. He's shot 74 while playing with me. And 99. And he pays attention to the rules and keeps score correctly.

I've played 100+ rounds with him, and he's in the 70s half the time. But. It's not that hard to have a bad day. I've seen him top drives and shank chips. Btw, his short game is really good--it saves him most times....

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I'll never discuss my handicap or what I generally shoot with people I've never played with for the reasons mentioned....that way it doesn't matter if I shoot a 60 or 100!

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[quote name='ProBowler' timestamp='1369970661' post='7140540']
But these guys do it so they can tell all their buddies that they are scratch and play in US Am and US Open qualifiers !!!

Ego
[/quote]

It also takes an ego to call them out for some reason...just a thought...

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All scratch golfers are not created equal, I think we can all agree on this, LOL.

One guy I know in my general region is in his early fifties and is a +1 or so. Lights it up on the regular, but he's inconsistent. I know he has shot high eighties in the BC amateur a week after firing -4 or -5 with me at the home course.

He has won dozens of local tourneys, played in some decent events and is known all over where I live.

I also know a few scratch golfers who usually play at 7 AM on Men's day morning and post some 'incredible' scores. But they get their lunch handed to them on the regular. Hell I'm a 5.1 index and would play this particular guy with no strokes in a New York minute if the chips were down.

In the end great golfers can have bad rounds, but if a 'scratch' is never putting up the low rounds under the gun...He probably isnt a scratch in reality.

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[quote name='Jamboy72' timestamp='1369969076' post='7140386']
[quote name='ProBowler' timestamp='1369968171' post='7140290']
[quote name='JJK947' timestamp='1369967170' post='7140180']
People don't realize that scratch just means the average of your BEST HALF of you scores is equal to the course rating. I am currently at +1.7 but does that mean I am shooting under par every time I get on the course? Absolutely not. On my good days I am at or below the course rating, on my bad days, who knows because it really doesn't matter in this handicap system. Heck, I shot 85 waking up at 5 am and playing in the rain and cold the other week in a tournament, I guess I'm not a real scratch then? Amateur golfers also tend to play the same one or two courses a majority of the time so you'll find that a lot of guys' handicaps "don't travel well." There's a far greater likelihood that I am going to put up a low score on my home course during a casual round in conditions that are favorable to me. And most of my posted scores are just that.
[/quote]

But honestly ....... You could tell by their swings that they were not even close to being scratch
[/quote]

Swings don't necessarily tell you anything. See: Tommy Gainey

I've seen a lot of honest/competitive scratch/+ players who maybe don't have textbook swings...in fact, you also see a lot of the opposite...pretty swings that rarely break 80 -
[/quote]

It's not even the swing, it's by the ball flight/contact you can tell the most

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[quote name='JJK947' timestamp='1369967170' post='7140180']
People don't realize that scratch just means the average of your BEST HALF of you scores is equal to the course rating. I am currently at +1.7 but does that mean I am shooting under par every time I get on the course? Absolutely not. On my good days I am at or below the course rating, on my bad days, who knows because it really doesn't matter in this handicap system. Heck, I shot 85 waking up at 5 am and playing in the rain and cold the other week in a tournament, I guess I'm not a real scratch then? Amateur golfers also tend to play the same one or two courses a majority of the time so you'll find that a lot of guys' handicaps "don't travel well." There's a far greater likelihood that I am going to put up a low score on my home course during a casual round in conditions that are favorable to me. And most of my posted scores are just that.
[/quote]

This is exactly right.

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Thus the phrase vanity cap. I started a thread way back when with the same topic. Knew two guys who work at a local range claiming to be scratch players. One shot high 80's in a us open qualifer. The other also hardly broke 90. I understand pressure but i dont think a true scratch player would shoot such high #'s. maybe a bad round in the low 80's i could understand.

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Please point me in the direction of these scratch guys and give me a game :). I always love free income at something I love. I like the rest hate the sandbaggers and which is why I normally don't give strokes unless I have played with you before and have seen what you have in the bag. I played a few matches when I was 19 against some older guys at a course called crosscreek in Temecula and for the guys who know it can bite you really quick. Well these guys claimed they were 14's. They go well how bout you just give us 4 a side. I ponder it and say sure. Lets just say with 4 aside they they both fired 75's to my 69 that day and I lost about 100 bucks. I have never been so pissed walking off of a golf course playing a friendly match but I got my money back later.
To the us open quals and others. They have a system that the guys do and it is called the Qual Tour, they go play these great private clubs they normally can't get on for 200 bucks or less and a practice round. They have been doing it for years. I got paired up a guy who goes here just keep your score because I am not going to keep mine, since I will probably post 125. I have always wanted to play this course and my buddy helped me get my handicap down in the system so I could do this. The guy was not lying he probably put up 60 on the front of this course. Now mind you I am 1 over on the turn and have 3 guys just as good as him playing with me. It was a LONG day looking for balls, watching the hack apart greens. They really hurt other guys in the field.

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