What is the "Snead Squat" and should I be doing it ?

He rotates his left knee back over the left toe and replants his right heel in the process. And he leaves his right knee behind. This sets him up for a very good hip rotation through the ball. Another way of describing this move is early external rotation in both hip joints that leads to separation of the knees.

Also note that he keeps his right hip inside his right knee. This will make it easier to turn the hips and safeguard against other undesirable hip motions at this stage, such as an excessive forward slide or a vertical lift of the right hip.

The most common error here is to fire the right foot too early - turn the right knee together with the left during transition. That can lead to a number of problems, including hip slide and early release.

Keeps everything online...according to Moe.

http://youtu.be/lxg-RrZOGwo

http://youtu.be/HzefeTswKfY

[quote name='CarySchoen' timestamp='1384502465' post='8152126']
What is the "Snead Squat" and should I be doing it ?
[/quote]

Is it a good idea to complicate the DS and add more elements of timing?

AC

[quote name='AlexCzervic' timestamp='1384531211' post='8153316']
[quote name='CarySchoen' timestamp='1384502465' post='8152126']
What is the "Snead Squat" and should I be doing it ?
[/quote]

Is it a good idea to complicate the DS and add more elements of timing?

AC
[/quote]

AC,

I find that this pattern has the opposite effect of complication. I think that it is the reason that things were "sooo simple" for guys like Snead, Hogan, and Moe

[quote name='Lefthook' timestamp='1384509664' post='8152230']
He rotates his left knee back over the left toe and replants his right heel in the process. And he leaves his right knee behind. This sets him up for a very good hip rotation through the ball. Another way of describing this move is early external rotation in both hip joints that leads to separation of the knees.

Also note that he keeps his right hip inside his right knee. This will make it easier to turn the hips and safeguard against other undesirable hip motions at this stage, such as an excessive forward slide or a vertical lift of the right hip.

The most common error here is to fire the right foot too early - turn the right knee together with the left during transition. That can lead to a number of problems, including hip slide and early release.
[/quote]

Nice Post Lefthook !

Should you be doing it ?Look at the driver videos of Ernie Els and Justin Rose below and tell me if there is much of the squat move that Sam Snead obviously had .I also looked at Adam Scott , Tiger Woods,Jason Dufner and Phil Mickleson and found this squat move present only in Tiger's swing and somewhat in Jason Dufner's swing.So from this very small sample it appears to not be a consistent fundamental among the world's top golfers currently
Why did Sam Snead have such an obvious squat move.It might very well be a compensation to large over-rotation of his hips going back.This over-rotation was so large that he was almost up on his left toe in many of his driver swings..Another factor to consider when trying to imitate this "squat move" is that Sam Snead was one of the greatest athletes to ever play golf .He had the athletic ability to convert the overrotation of the hips into his "squat move"(lemons into lemonade) and subsequently perform a great 9-3 motion.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spl3fs-7iZo[/media]
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsFhVjrM31o[/media]

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1384542536' post='8154284']
Should you be doing it ?Look at the driver videos of Ernie Els and Justin Rose below and tell me if there is much of the squat move that Sam Snead obviously had .I also looked at Adam Scott and Tiger Woods and found this squat move present only in Tiger's swing.So from this very small sample it appears to not be a consistent fundamental among the world's top golfers currently
Why did Sam Snead have such an obvious squat move.It might very well be a compensation to his large overrotation of his hips going back.This overrotaion was so large that he was almost up on his left toe in many of his driver swings..Another factor to consider when trying to imitate this "squat move" is that Sam Snead was one of the greatest athletes to ever play golf .He had the athletic ability to convert his overrotation of the hips into his "squat move"(lemons into lemonade) and subsequently perform a great 9-3 motion.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spl3fs-7iZo[/media]
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsFhVjrM31o[/media]
[/quote]

I know !!! and they would be better if they had a different lower body action !

[attachment=1950226:image.jpg]

[quote name='CarySchoen' timestamp='1384543098' post='8154330']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1384542536' post='8154284']
Should you be doing it ?Look at the driver videos of Ernie Els and Justin Rose below and tell me if there is much of the squat move that Sam Snead obviously had .I also looked at Adam Scott and Tiger Woods and found this squat move present only in Tiger's swing.So from this very small sample it appears to not be a consistent fundamental among the world's top golfers currently
Why did Sam Snead have such an obvious squat move.It might very well be a compensation to his large overrotation of his hips going back.This overrotaion was so large that he was almost up on his left toe in many of his driver swings..Another factor to consider when trying to imitate this "squat move" is that Sam Snead was one of the greatest athletes to ever play golf .He had the athletic ability to convert his overrotation of the hips into his "squat move"(lemons into lemonade) and subsequently perform a great 9-3 motion.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spl3fs-7iZo[/media]
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsFhVjrM31o[/media]
[/quote]

I know !!! and they would be better if they had a different lower body action !

[attachment=1950226:image.jpg]
[/quote]

So you are advocating it or describing why it's wrong?

[quote name='whatshannenin' timestamp='1384544753' post='8154458']
[quote name='CarySchoen' timestamp='1384543098' post='8154330']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1384542536' post='8154284']
Should you be doing it ?Look at the driver videos of Ernie Els and Justin Rose below and tell me if there is much of the squat move that Sam Snead obviously had .I also looked at Adam Scott and Tiger Woods and found this squat move present only in Tiger's swing.So from this very small sample it appears to not be a consistent fundamental among the world's top golfers currently
Why did Sam Snead have such an obvious squat move.It might very well be a compensation to his large overrotation of his hips going back.This overrotaion was so large that he was almost up on his left toe in many of his driver swings..Another factor to consider when trying to imitate this "squat move" is that Sam Snead was one of the greatest athletes to ever play golf .He had the athletic ability to convert his overrotation of the hips into his "squat move"(lemons into lemonade) and subsequently perform a great 9-3 motion.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spl3fs-7iZo[/media]
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsFhVjrM31o[/media]
[/quote]

I know !!! and they would be better if they had a different lower body action !

[attachment=1950226:image.jpg]
[/quote]

So you are advocating it or describing why it's wrong?
[/quote]

I am advocating it. I think that there is tremendous advantage to pivoting like Snead did, and I believe there are tremendous complications involved when pivoting like Els

I think if you move your hips like slammin' Sam you can pretty much move your upper body any way you wish. His way of moving the hips can support any upper body action that is worth doing and also make the best out of a few others. It is a power house and a buffer combined. If this makes sense all credit goes to kelvin M. Otherwise it's on me...

Big fan of this move and wish I could do it. Hogan did to a lesser extent too, Rory is another good example...

I know this is a loaded question as feel is all relative, but how can one go about this squat? Hold the right knee? Try to move the ankles towards the ball, imagine sitting down into a deck chair?

@Mad- I've been working on this type of move as a way to slow my hips down. My FEEL is that from the top of the BS, I'm trying to get my left hip even or just past my ankle AND maintain flex or slightly increase flex in left leg. It feels like my left glute is working toward my left heel and getting closer to the ground to start the transition down. Feels very powerful and helps give my arms time to synch up.

Edit: this move requires decent amount of strength, flexibility and stability. I had been taught it a few years ago and then again at the end of last year. I would have really good success with during a range session but couldn't maintain it bc I didn't have the glute strength or core stability to do it while playing or especially over a 4 day tourney.

[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1384555759' post='8155268']
@Mad- I've been working on this type of move as a way to slow my hips down. My FEEL is that from the top of the BS, I'm trying to get my left hip even or just past my ankle AND maintain flex or slightly increase flex in left leg. It feels like my left glute is working toward my left heel and getting closer to the ground to start the transition down. Feels very powerful and helps give my arms time to synch up.

Edit: this move requires decent amount of strength, flexibility and stability. I had been taught it a few years ago and then again at the end of last year. I would have really good success with during a range session but couldn't maintain it bc I didn't have the glute strength or core stability to do it while playing or especially over a 4 day tourney.
[/quote]

You can make this move with less than average strength. The strength you need is just a clear understanding of HOW to do it

[quote name='MadForeIt' timestamp='1384555403' post='8155244']
Big fan of this move and wish I could do it. Hogan did to a lesser extent too, Rory is another good example...

I know this is a loaded question as feel is all relative, but how can one go about this squat? Hold the right knee? Try to move the ankles towards the ball, imagine sitting down into a deck chair?
[/quote]

You WILL NOT get it from TRYING to squat. It's resultant of a movement pattern in which trying to squat is not one of the elements

So what is the squat pattern 101 then???

I don't know MadForelt. A good place to start is to widen the knees during transition. If you feel like it you can make a little jump, then land with knees wide. It looks quirky but it will get you towards this kind of motion.

I do not have this move properly nailed, so it does not flow yet. But even if it feels strange it does not hurt my swing. I am mostly used to create the hip turn with the front of my thighs, while this works more with the inside - so it will take some time getting used to. But I have learned that if you do this - you are set to control your hip motion much better. It will enable you to turn the hips better, it will help you control how far you drive the hips forward during transition, it will help you control how much hip tilt you have through the ball - and it will aid you towards a good extension. And it also makes it easier to get the leading hip deep early without getting stuck.

In the video above, Sam Snead says it helped him generate additional power. I'll take that as a bonus if it happen to me. In the mean time I'll gladly settle for the other advantages.

[quote name='CarySchoen' timestamp='1384559689' post='8155506']
[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1384555759' post='8155268']
@Mad- I've been working on this type of move as a way to slow my hips down. My FEEL is that from the top of the BS, I'm trying to get my left hip even or just past my ankle AND maintain flex or slightly increase flex in left leg. It feels like my left glute is working toward my left heel and getting closer to the ground to start the transition down. Feels very powerful and helps give my arms time to synch up.

Edit: this move requires decent amount of strength, flexibility and stability. I had been taught it a few years ago and then again at the end of last year. I would have really good success with during a range session but couldn't maintain it bc I didn't have the glute strength or core stability to do it while playing or especially over a 4 day tourney.
[/quote]

You can make this move with less than average strength. The strength you need is just a clear understanding of HOW to do it
[/quote]

Agree on strength but you definitely need to be able to properly stabilize to pull it off/succeed with it. Again, as you know from trying to play, there's a big difference from having some success with it on the range and succeeding with it over the course of 4 days, let alone 3-5 weeks in a row. I've always been in decent shape but couldn't maintain/support this move until I did some PT and strength training work on my left hip and glute.

Be careful about having a 'knees out' thought. If left knee gets past left ankle in transition it can be painful/cause injury. From a functional motion standpoint the GOAL is for hip to drive knee, rather than the other way around.

[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1384561665' post='8155624']
[quote name='CarySchoen' timestamp='1384559689' post='8155506']
[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1384555759' post='8155268']
@Mad- I've been working on this type of move as a way to slow my hips down. My FEEL is that from the top of the BS, I'm trying to get my left hip even or just past my ankle AND maintain flex or slightly increase flex in left leg. It feels like my left glute is working toward my left heel and getting closer to the ground to start the transition down. Feels very powerful and helps give my arms time to synch up.

Edit: this move requires decent amount of strength, flexibility and stability. I had been taught it a few years ago and then again at the end of last year. I would have really good success with during a range session but couldn't maintain it bc I didn't have the glute strength or core stability to do it while playing or especially over a 4 day tourney.
[/quote]

You can make this move with less than average strength. The strength you need is just a clear understanding of HOW to do it
[/quote]

Agree on strength but you definitely need to be able to properly stabilize to pull it off/succeed with it. Again, as you know from trying to play, there's a big difference from having some success with it on the range and succeeding with it over the course of 4 days, let alone 3-5 weeks in a row. I've always been in decent shape but couldn't maintain/support this move until I did some PT and strength training work on my left hip and glute.
[/quote]

I absolutely believe that the stronger you are, the more the advantage in doing ANYTHING physical. But, I just don't want people to think that making a good pivot hinges on the requirement of high strength

[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1384561992' post='8155660']
Be careful about having a 'knees out' thought. If left knee gets past left ankle in transition it can be painful/cause injury. From a functional motion standpoint the GOAL is for hip to drive knee, rather than the other way around.
[/quote]

Terrific !

[quote name='CarySchoen' timestamp='1384562263' post='8155678']
[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1384561665' post='8155624']
[quote name='CarySchoen' timestamp='1384559689' post='8155506']
[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1384555759' post='8155268']
@Mad- I've been working on this type of move as a way to slow my hips down. My FEEL is that from the top of the BS, I'm trying to get my left hip even or just past my ankle AND maintain flex or slightly increase flex in left leg. It feels like my left glute is working toward my left heel and getting closer to the ground to start the transition down. Feels very powerful and helps give my arms time to synch up.

Edit: this move requires decent amount of strength, flexibility and stability. I had been taught it a few years ago and then again at the end of last year. I would have really good success with during a range session but couldn't maintain it bc I didn't have the glute strength or core stability to do it while playing or especially over a 4 day tourney.
[/quote]

You can make this move with less than average strength. The strength you need is just a clear understanding of HOW to do it
[/quote]

Agree on strength but you definitely need to be able to properly stabilize to pull it off/succeed with it. Again, as you know from trying to play, there's a big difference from having some success with it on the range and succeeding with it over the course of 4 days, let alone 3-5 weeks in a row. I've always been in decent shape but couldn't maintain/support this move until I did some PT and strength training work on my left hip and glute.
[/quote]

I absolutely believe that the stronger you are, the more the advantage in doing ANYTHING physical. But, I just don't want people to think that making a good pivot hinges on the requirement of high strength
[/quote]

I'd agree with that.

Couple of things. I don't think EVERYONE needs this squat move. It's a very powerful pivot action but I think some are better off without it.

I'm 6'7 with chicken legs. Needless to say I'm definitely not someone that looks like a body builder. My only point was this type of squatting actions requires a decent bit of stability in the lead hip and leg area.

If you are going to do the squat, which I applaud, you probably shouldn't move the left leg into external rotation until just after your center of pressure moves (your pelvis). They will look simultaneous on video but the pelvis should move just a smidge before. Otherwise your risk blowing out your sequence.

One of two things will happen:

1. Your arms will out run your shoulders down plane and you'll bottom out too soon, or

2. You'll pull your shoulders open to keep them ahead of your arms and you'll whip the path too far too the left.

[quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1384562780' post='8155722']
If you are going to do the squat, which I applaud, you probably shouldn't move the left leg into external rotation until just after your center of pressure moves (your pelvis). They will look simultaneous on video but the pelvis should move just a smidge before. Otherwise your risk blowing out your sequence.
[/quote]

And your knee.

Good stuff.

It won't work unless you have a chapeau like Sam's.

[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1384563001' post='8155742']
[quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1384562780' post='8155722']
If you are going to do the squat, which I applaud, you probably shouldn't move the left leg into external rotation until just after your center of pressure moves (your pelvis). They will look simultaneous on video but the pelvis should move just a smidge before. Otherwise your risk blowing out your sequence.
[/quote]

And your knee.

Good stuff.
[/quote]

Well, I would say if you move your pelvis and center of pressure to far targetward and then keep the left knee hanging out over the ball of your left foot....then you are really in for some pain. Do not do that.

[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1384562731' post='8155716']
[quote name='CarySchoen' timestamp='1384562263' post='8155678']
[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1384561665' post='8155624']
[quote name='CarySchoen' timestamp='1384559689' post='8155506']
[quote name='lv_2_hack' timestamp='1384555759' post='8155268']
@Mad- I've been working on this type of move as a way to slow my hips down. My FEEL is that from the top of the BS, I'm trying to get my left hip even or just past my ankle AND maintain flex or slightly increase flex in left leg. It feels like my left glute is working toward my left heel and getting closer to the ground to start the transition down. Feels very powerful and helps give my arms time to synch up.

Edit: this move requires decent amount of strength, flexibility and stability. I had been taught it a few years ago and then again at the end of last year. I would have really good success with during a range session but couldn't maintain it bc I didn't have the glute strength or core stability to do it while playing or especially over a 4 day tourney.
[/quote]

You can make this move with less than average strength. The strength you need is just a clear understanding of HOW to do it
[/quote]

Agree on strength but you definitely need to be able to properly stabilize to pull it off/succeed with it. Again, as you know from trying to play, there's a big difference from having some success with it on the range and succeeding with it over the course of 4 days, let alone 3-5 weeks in a row. I've always been in decent shape but couldn't maintain/support this move until I did some PT and strength training work on my left hip and glute.
[/quote]

I absolutely believe that the stronger you are, the more the advantage in doing ANYTHING physical. But, I just don't want people to think that making a good pivot hinges on the requirement of high strength
[/quote]

I'd agree with that.

Couple of things. I don't think EVERYONE needs this squat move. It's a very powerful pivot action but I think some are better off without it.

I'm 6'7 with chicken legs. Needless to say I'm definitely not someone that looks like a body builder. My only point was this type of squatting actions requires a decent bit of stability in the lead hip and leg area.
[/quote]

WOW ! How do you play from up there ? Shouldn't you be trying to do your slam dunks with the orange ball ?

I think you can make the same move as Snead. It just has to be properly choreographed. It might not look the same, and it might not even appear to look like a Squat. Again, the Squat is not something you try to do. It is a result of doing something else

Does anybody have a copy of any of the books he wrote about golf ?

Does he actually teach the squat in his book ?

It would be interesting to know what HE says about this ?

You can purchase "educating a golfer" as an e-book on amazon. It is perhaps more of a bio than a swing technical book, but it is very good read if you're interested in the era when pro golf started to pay off. Mr Snead had a bad rep with media and playing opponents, but after reading about how he was treated before he broke through it is hard to blame him.

And yes ... he was long.... even by golfwrx standards .... driving par 4 greens that "nobody " could reach until he came along.