Football and the concussion thing

So there's obviously a ton of football fans here, just wondering what your take on the game is now and if it's different then what it was 10 years ago.

I'm a former Highschool, JC player and played in University too (in university I was a placekicker only, in HS and JC was a cornerback-receiver too).

I have a hard time watching the game now. Recently a couple of high school kids died as a result of on field hits. The difficulties that ex-players go through just gets harder and harder to read even with the money they make. The past few years i've all but stopped watching the game. I don't think i would ever let my kids play

That's just me. I know everyone's opinions are different. Just wondering how some of you guys feel?

I wonder what the NFL will look like in 10 years. I have to think they will make some major rule changes in the Future

I feel similarly to use Jeff. I still watch the game, but I cringe every time I see a guy take a big shot to the head. PBS aired a documentary a few months ago called "League of Denial" and it was fantastic. It was part of their Frontline series.

It's really a shame how the NFL handled the situation for the better part of 2 decades. While they've made some significant changes in the way the game is played now, I can't help but feel like they only made these changes because of the evidence mounted against them as well as all of the pressure being put on them to make the game safer.

While I do enjoy watching the game, when I do have children I don't think I'll let them play unless significant advancements in safety are made.


Here is a link to the Frontline episode I referenced. It's right at 2 hours long but it's a great watch.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/league-of-denial/

For me I never watched football for the hits so for the NFL to make it less violent I'm ok with it. The only thing I don't like is they protect the qb more than anybody else...least protect everyone equally.

Lastly, if anybody ever thought that getting hit many many times in the head/body wouldn't catch up with them wasn't that bright in the first place.

[quote name='airjammer' timestamp='1385689177' post='8223292']
For me I never watched football for the hits so for the NFL to make it less violent I'm ok with it. The only thing I don't like is they protect the qb more than anybody else...least protect everyone equally.

Lastly, if anybody ever thought that getting hit many many times in the head/body wouldn't catch up with them wasn't that bright in the first place.
[/quote]

I agree, but i mean i'm a pretty smart guy (really, i swear!) and i'm still surprised at how bad it is. I mean there's a difference between "Well, for sure there's a risk of injury" to " holy friggin hell, almost every retired player that does an interview says he has memory loss, and is in pain just walking around"

I mean i didn't know it was that bad until the past few years

No doubt...I don't think many people knew how devastating all of these injuries were. As far concussions are concerned boxing has a much worse problem than football.

I've lost almost all interest. I played HS football and got my bell rung badly once, can't remember much from that game. Now with all the info we have about concussions I cringe as well when I see a big collision involving the head. But then at the same time it's hard to watch games when all a defensive player is trying to do is make a tackle and then he ends up with a personal foul. It's just too hard to watch if you know the proper way to play football. At the end of the day I think it's a sport that will start a downward slide that will result in another sport taking over the top spot, my guess being basketball. I know I'll not allow my kid to play football. He'll be a thin white boy from central Illinois, he ain't playing in the nfl anyway!

Make sure people understand the risks going in and let them decide if they want to play or not, then if someone winds up with long term problems it's on them rather than this whole blame the owners or the league or the coaches or the doctors thing.

I'm not one for bubble wrapping society. We have laws to prevent people doing things that hurt others, I believe that within the confines of those laws people should be free to make their own choices, and making choices of what to do with your body and your brain is paramount in that thought process.

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1385695241' post='8223616']
Make sure people understand the risks going in and let them decide if they want to play or not, then if someone winds up with long term problems it's on them rather than this whole blame the owners or the league or the coaches or the doctors thing.

I'm not one for bubble wrapping society. We have laws to prevent people doing things that hurt others, I believe that within the confines of those laws people should be free to make their own choices, and making choices of what to do with your body and your brain is paramount in that thought process.
[/quote]

The problem with that is how many 21 year old males from a poor background are going to thoughtfully consider the repercussions of possible head trauma years in their future vs the cash, girls, and glamour of the nfl and choose to turn the opportunity down? My guess is less than 1%.

You can take a head up hit to the head helmet to helmet, lots of them from the front. I must have had thousands of head to head hits from the front from a kid to 3rd year university.

And, as we all know

My head works fine ; )

Its the shots to the top, side, back of the head that I think give you brain damage.

Been away from the game but they *used* to teach to tackle with your head up and wrap.

Now, it seems, especially in the secondary, guys drop their heads and try to just

Pop

That is the road to brain damage.

[quote name='Chief Illiniwek' timestamp='1385699250' post='8223818']
[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1385695241' post='8223616']
Make sure people understand the risks going in and let them decide if they want to play or not, then if someone winds up with long term problems it's on them rather than this whole blame the owners or the league or the coaches or the doctors thing.

I'm not one for bubble wrapping society. We have laws to prevent people doing things that hurt others, I believe that within the confines of those laws people should be free to make their own choices, and making choices of what to do with your body and your brain is paramount in that thought process.
[/quote]

The problem with that is how many 21 year old males from a poor background are going to thoughtfully consider the repercussions of possible head trauma years in their future vs the cash, girls, and glamour of the nfl and choose to turn the opportunity down? My guess is less than 1%.
[/quote]

While you're right, a 21 year old is an adult and should be free to make his own decisions. I don't think it's right for me or someone else to make his decisions for him simply because he comes from a disadvantaged socioeconomic background.

Of course this is the whole debate, given that we have the information now are we going to let people do what they choose with their bodies or not?

i don't know what i really believe in terms of my moral position. I've always been like Thrillhouse, a supporter of people making choices. But for me there's gotta be a line somewhere too as a society

I mean would we rebuild the coliseum and let gladiators kill each other in front of us? I think most people would say that is barbaric and we are not barbaric. But football now has been arguably shown to drastically reduce quality of life at a very advanced age. We are somewhat cheering for hits that could one day contribute to a players suicide. Something seems wrong about it to me, even though players now in the league fully admit they are aware of the risks. So what amount of risk are we comfortable cheering for? On the litmus test, where is football between a sport like golf and full fledged coliseum killings on the other end

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1385703055' post='8223904']
You can take a head up hit to the head helmet to helmet, lots of them from the front. I must have had thousands of head to head hits from the front from a kid to 3rd year university.

And, as we all know

My head works fine ; )

Its the shots to the top, side, back of the head that I think give you brain damage.

Been away from the game but they *used* to teach to tackle with your head up and wrap.

Now, it seems, especially in the secondary, guys drop their heads and try to just

Pop

That is the road to brain damage.
[/quote]

I can't prove it with stats, but i'm a big believer that Canadian rules football in the long term is safer and frankly it's not THAT different a game. In fact the NFL is becoming more pass wacky anyway

But the CFL fields are longer and wider, there is a lot more spacing, 3 downs means less power running. Defensive backs have to form tackle well because with less bunching you are more on an island, so there's less headhunting

I would guess that it's a bit safer

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1385734290' post='8224506']
i don't know what i really believe in terms of my moral position. I've always been like Thrillhouse, a supporter of people making choices. But for me there's gotta be a line somewhere too as a society

I mean would we rebuild the coliseum and let gladiators kill each other in front of us? I think most people would say that is barbaric and we are not barbaric. But football now has been arguably shown to drastically reduce quality of life at a very advanced age. We are somewhat cheering for hits that could one day contribute to a players suicide. Something seems wrong about it to me, even though players now in the league fully admit they are aware of the risks. So what amount of risk are we comfortable cheering for? On the litmus test, where is football between a sport like golf and full fledged coliseum killings on the other end
[/quote]

This is spot on with how I feel Jeff. I was just playing devil's advocate with Thrill. Usually I'm pretty liberal on individual freedoms and not telling people what they can and can't do as long as it isn't hurtful to anyone else in society. But something feels wrong about watching football now with the knowledge we have, and I think a lot of the wrongness comes from knowing what kind of socioeconomic situation many of the players came from.

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1385734580' post='8224530']
[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1385703055' post='8223904']
You can take a head up hit to the head helmet to helmet, lots of them from the front. I must have had thousands of head to head hits from the front from a kid to 3rd year university.

And, as we all know

My head works fine ; )

Its the shots to the top, side, back of the head that I think give you brain damage.

Been away from the game but they *used* to teach to tackle with your head up and wrap.

Now, it seems, especially in the secondary, guys drop their heads and try to just

Pop

That is the road to brain damage.
[/quote]

I can't prove it with stats, but i'm a big believer that Canadian rules football in the long term is safer and frankly it's not THAT different a game. In fact the NFL is becoming more pass wacky anyway

But the CFL fields are longer and wider, there is a lot more spacing, 3 downs means less power running. Defensive backs have to form tackle well because with less bunching you are more on an island, so there's less headhunting

I would guess that it's a bit safer
[/quote]

Here is Ronnie Lott with a huge hit. At :26 seconds look how long he keeps his head up and makes the hit with his shoulder. If you look at his form in other highlight reels, he keeps his head up and hits with hit shoulder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxD6Xg7xPdA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I love hard hitting football. But I cringe at helmet to helmet hits (Le'veon Bell yesterday).

It is so rare to see a good, clean shoulder hit, without leading with the helmet.

IMO this is all over blown and really not a big deal at all. Im all for some sort of benefit package for players just like most jobs, but I find it a tad ridiculous to be making a big deal out of concussions after the fact. Also, I dont understand the group that "cringes" at big hits. What did you think was going to happen in a collision sport? Do you "cringe" when watching a dude get laid out in UFC? If you cringe at a big hit, watch badmitton or synchronized swimming instead of football.

1. Please feel free to refrain from playing football if you are worried about concussions. If you do want to play, it comes with the territory.
2. The changes to the game due to helmet to helmet have really killed part of the game, in the mean time raising the "risk" to defensive players. When the offensive player is still allowed to lower his head, you have defenders coming in awkwardly then offering the shoulder/side of their head and leaving them open to big hits.

Probably about 85% of all defensive players of the past would have never been able to survive in the NFL now. Its a shame to watch the league ruin its product. When you have refs throwing the flags to air on the side of caution, it really effects the outcomes of games. Not to mention more often than not, the replay shows that they were not helmet to helmet hits. Injuries of all sorts are part of football, and if you willing go in and compete knowing the risks, thats not on anybody but you.


Like I said, football is a choice. If you want to play for millions, and fame and other opportunities that the normal folk dont get then dont come crying when you develop issues later, or cant walk. I dont see many police officers, soldiers etc coming after their employers after the fact when they get injured or killed in the line of duty.

[quote name='Mschumacher' timestamp='1385753081' post='8225560']
[b]I love hard hitting football[/b]. But I cringe at helmet to helmet hits (Le'veon Bell yesterday).

It is so rare to see a good, clean shoulder hit, without leading with the helmet.
[/quote]

There's rub. Similarly to hockey, where people talk about "hitting" as opposed to checking, you're talking about hitting as opposed to tackling. So in hockey, rather than separating the man from the puck, it's become all about drilling him, even long after the puck is gone, same in football, it seems that a big collision, one that sometimes the offensive player bounces off of and gains more yards, is more important than a sure tackle to take him down. Because ultimately, except on the lines(and even there it's questionable it can get much harder than it is normally), the "harder hitting" the game is, the less solid the tackle can be. A linebacker or DB can't propel themselves at the necessary speed to really throw the crunching hit while also allowing themselves the ability to adjust if the offensive player changes directions.

But what sells.....between the gambling and the hits...you've covered off most of why the NFL is as popular as is claimed.

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1385734290' post='8224506']
i don't know what i really believe in terms of my moral position. I've always been like Thrillhouse, a supporter of people making choices. But for me there's gotta be a line somewhere too as a society

I mean would we rebuild the coliseum and let gladiators kill each other in front of us? I think most people would say that is barbaric and we are not barbaric. But football now has been arguably shown to drastically reduce quality of life at a very advanced age. We are somewhat cheering for hits that could one day contribute to a players suicide. Something seems wrong about it to me, even though players now in the league fully admit they are aware of the risks. So what amount of risk are we comfortable cheering for? On the litmus test, where is football between a sport like golf and full fledged coliseum killings on the other end
[/quote]

The intent in the Coliseum was to kill each other....like dead...and often times they were not their on their own choice. Its hardly the intent of football, and everybody involved is their voluntarily. How is that similar?

[quote name='Bluefan75' timestamp='1385758737' post='8225840']
[quote name='Mschumacher' timestamp='1385753081' post='8225560']
[b]I love hard hitting football[/b]. But I cringe at helmet to helmet hits (Le'veon Bell yesterday).

It is so rare to see a good, clean shoulder hit, without leading with the helmet.
[/quote]

There's rub. Similarly to hockey, where people talk about "hitting" as opposed to checking, you're talking about hitting as opposed to tackling. So in hockey, rather than separating the man from the puck, it's become all about drilling him, even long after the puck is gone, same in football, it seems that a big collision, one that sometimes the offensive player bounces off of and gains more yards, is more important than a sure tackle to take him down. Because ultimately, except on the lines(and even there it's questionable it can get much harder than it is normally), the "harder hitting" the game is, the less solid the tackle can be. A linebacker or DB can't propel themselves at the necessary speed to really throw the crunching hit while also allowing themselves the ability to adjust if the offensive player changes directions.

But what sells.....between the gambling and the hits...you've covered off most of why the NFL is as popular as is claimed.
[/quote]

Not to mention a hard hit makes it difficult to wrap the offensive player up. For a DB in space facing a larger WR the best way to tackle is often tripping them up.

I don't want them to continue watering down the game, but the NFL needs to change its culture. I still see guys out there after wicked hits. If the NFL really wanted to make a change, they could examine every player that played a down after every game. Don't tell me that would cost too much money considering the salaries of their executives. Or they could enforce a period of time off for concussions, increasing for each subsequent one, kind of like the substance abuse stuff. One concussion, one game, second concussion, 4 games, 3rd, eight games, or whatever.

Now it's not just on the league either. Players need to understand the long term effects and remove themselves from games. Some people are more predisposed to injuries, and these guys need to make a decision to save themselves. I know there's a lot of glory involved, but I used to see a big time running back from time to time, and he walked like an 80 year old man. He was 30 and still in the league performing at a decent level too.

Finally, let's really pay attention to stats. Is this problem that widespread? I honestly don't know. I see a lot of highly functioning ex-pros who go onto good careers after football right along with guys that have issues. Guys like Favre aren't doing the game any favors by playing through a ton of nasty injuries then coming back and blaming it on the league.

I think it's also worth noting that the modern athlete's continued refinement is also bad for football. In the 90's a 300 LB lineman who could move a little, like Orlando Pace, was a freak. Now just 15-20 years later you seldom see a decent lineman who isn't 300 lbs.

Same goes for LB's and DB's. it's no longer 230 pound LB's and 190 pound DB's, it's 260 and 220, and they all run sub 5 40's. Thats a lot of weight moving very quickly, and their skulls aren't getting any thicker.

[quote name='highergr0und' timestamp='1385767070' post='8226298']
I don't want them to continue watering down the game, but the NFL needs to change its culture. I still see guys out there after wicked hits. If the NFL really wanted to make a change, they could examine every player that played a down after every game. Don't tell me that would cost too much money considering the salaries of their executives. Or they could enforce a period of time off for concussions, increasing for each subsequent one, kind of like the substance abuse stuff. One concussion, one game, second concussion, 4 games, 3rd, eight games, or whatever.

Now it's not just on the league either. Players need to understand the long term effects and remove themselves from games. Some people are more predisposed to injuries, and these guys need to make a decision to save themselves. I know there's a lot of glory involved, but I used to see a big time running back from time to time, and he walked like an 80 year old man. He was 30 and still in the league performing at a decent level too.

Finally, let's really pay attention to stats. Is this problem that widespread? I honestly don't know. I see a lot of highly functioning ex-pros who go onto good careers after football right along with guys that have issues. Guys like Favre aren't doing the game any favors by playing through a ton of nasty injuries then coming back and blaming it on the league.
[/quote]

Making guys sit out games is going to cause concussions to go unreported. Also, very few players are ever going to voluntarily take themselves out. Not only does it go against the tough guy gladiator mentality, but in a league without guaranteed contracts you don't want to become an unreliable, injury prone player unless your last name is Manning. Otherwise you won't be finding a job.

[quote name='Chief Illiniwek' timestamp='1385766215' post='8226242']
[quote name='Bluefan75' timestamp='1385758737' post='8225840']
[quote name='Mschumacher' timestamp='1385753081' post='8225560']
[b]I love hard hitting football[/b]. But I cringe at helmet to helmet hits (Le'veon Bell yesterday).

It is so rare to see a good, clean shoulder hit, without leading with the helmet.
[/quote]

There's rub. Similarly to hockey, where people talk about "hitting" as opposed to checking, you're talking about hitting as opposed to tackling. So in hockey, rather than separating the man from the puck, it's become all about drilling him, even long after the puck is gone, same in football, it seems that a big collision, one that sometimes the offensive player bounces off of and gains more yards, is more important than a sure tackle to take him down. Because ultimately, except on the lines(and even there it's questionable it can get much harder than it is normally), the "harder hitting" the game is, the less solid the tackle can be. A linebacker or DB can't propel themselves at the necessary speed to really throw the crunching hit while also allowing themselves the ability to adjust if the offensive player changes directions.

But what sells.....between the gambling and the hits...you've covered off most of why the NFL is as popular as is claimed.
[/quote]

Not to mention a hard hit makes it difficult to wrap the offensive player up. For a DB in space facing a larger WR the best way to tackle is often tripping them up.
[/quote]

Thats not true at all. Check alot of LBs, Willis, Bowman, Kuechly, Lee, Cushing etc all hit hard and wrap up consistently with good form. Lots of corners tend to just launch themselves like missiles or have horrible tackling form which results in many missed tackles and injuries.

Plus all the more of the "safety" movement in the league is bias and one sided. If they really are protecting ALL players, they would get rid of cut and chop blocks. Those are dirty and almost routinely result in injury. Lets call a spade a spade, NFL really only cares about offense, and their golden boy players which =$$$.

[quote name='bubbagump' timestamp='1385767808' post='8226328']
Plus all the more of the "safety" movement in the league is bias and one sided. If they really are protecting ALL players, they would get rid of cut and chop blocks. Those are dirty and almost routinely result in injury. Lets call a spade a spade, NFL really only cares about offense, and their golden boy players which =$$$.
[/quote]

While I don't necessarily agree with all you've said in this thread thus far, I do agree with this 100%. Especially what you said regarding the cut and chop blocks.

[quote name='baseballfrk8998' timestamp='1385768423' post='8226366']
[quote name='bubbagump' timestamp='1385767808' post='8226328']
Plus all the more of the "safety" movement in the league is bias and one sided. If they really are protecting ALL players, they would get rid of cut and chop blocks. Those are dirty and almost routinely result in injury. Lets call a spade a spade, NFL really only cares about offense, and their golden boy players which =$$$.
[/quote]

While I don't necessarily agree with all you've said in this thread thus far, I do agree with this 100%. Especially what you said regarding the cut and chop blocks.
[/quote]

It just feel disingenious to promote "safety" when you are still allowing probably one of the dirtiest things in football to go on, as well as stacking all the new "rules" to short change the defense.

[quote name='bubbagump' timestamp='1385759014' post='8225854']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1385734290' post='8224506']
i don't know what i really believe in terms of my moral position. I've always been like Thrillhouse, a supporter of people making choices. But for me there's gotta be a line somewhere too as a society

I mean would we rebuild the coliseum and let gladiators kill each other in front of us? I think most people would say that is barbaric and we are not barbaric. But football now has been arguably shown to drastically reduce quality of life at a very advanced age. We are somewhat cheering for hits that could one day contribute to a players suicide. Something seems wrong about it to me, even though players now in the league fully admit they are aware of the risks. So what amount of risk are we comfortable cheering for? On the litmus test, where is football between a sport like golf and full fledged coliseum killings on the other end
[/quote]

The intent in the Coliseum was to kill each other....like dead...and often times they were not their on their own choice. Its hardly the intent of football, and everybody involved is their voluntarily. How is that similar?
[/quote]

where did i say it was similar? I said where does football fall on that scale

[quote name='bubbagump' timestamp='1385758104' post='8225816']
IMO this is all over blown and really not a big deal at all. Im all for some sort of benefit package for players just like most jobs, but I find it a tad ridiculous to be making a big deal out of concussions after the fact. Also, I dont understand the group that "cringes" at big hits. What did you think was going to happen in a collision sport? Do you "cringe" when watching a dude get laid out in UFC? If you cringe at a big hit, watch badmitton or synchronized swimming instead of football.

1. Please feel free to refrain from playing football if you are worried about concussions. If you do want to play, it comes with the territory.
2. The changes to the game due to helmet to helmet have really killed part of the game, in the mean time raising the "risk" to defensive players. When the offensive player is still allowed to lower his head, you have defenders coming in awkwardly then offering the shoulder/side of their head and leaving them open to big hits.

Probably about 85% of all defensive players of the past would have never been able to survive in the NFL now. Its a shame to watch the league ruin its product. When you have refs throwing the flags to air on the side of caution, it really effects the outcomes of games. Not to mention more often than not, the replay shows that they were not helmet to helmet hits. Injuries of all sorts are part of football, and if you willing go in and compete knowing the risks, thats not on anybody but you.


Like I said, football is a choice. If you want to play for millions, and fame and other opportunities that the normal folk dont get then dont come crying when you develop issues later, or cant walk. [b] I dont see many police officers, soldiers etc coming after their employers after the fact when they get injured or killed in the line of duty.[/b]
[/quote]

I wouldn't say that doesn't happen, i mean treatment of veterans is a huge discussion point in many forums. As was the deaths of many soldiers in recent wars and why it was necessary. I don't think we can really go into that here though as it's fairly political. But i certainly would say many people question why things happen there even though they knew the risks when signing up

I think the millions of dollars is a red herring. I don't think their money is much comfort to them when they are done playing. I think society is sold a bill of good saying money cures all problems. I wouldn't trade places with those guys. You make enough to be happy and the difference between 100K and 1M isn't as much as people think.

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1385784023' post='8227208']
[quote name='bubbagump' timestamp='1385759014' post='8225854']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1385734290' post='8224506']
i don't know what i really believe in terms of my moral position. I've always been like Thrillhouse, a supporter of people making choices. But for me there's gotta be a line somewhere too as a society

I mean would we rebuild the coliseum and let gladiators kill each other in front of us? I think most people would say that is barbaric and we are not barbaric. But football now has been arguably shown to drastically reduce quality of life at a very advanced age. We are somewhat cheering for hits that could one day contribute to a players suicide. Something seems wrong about it to me, even though players now in the league fully admit they are aware of the risks. So what amount of risk are we comfortable cheering for? On the litmus test, where is football between a sport like golf and full fledged coliseum killings on the other end
[/quote]

The intent in the Coliseum was to kill each other....like dead...and often times they were not their on their own choice. Its hardly the intent of football, and everybody involved is their voluntarily. How is that similar?
[/quote]

where did i say it was similar? [b]I said where does football fall on that scale[/b]
[/quote]

I know, I wasnt implying you said that. I was saying to your propostion, they are two seperate things that imo arent even remotely similar.

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1385784421' post='8227230']
[quote name='bubbagump' timestamp='1385758104' post='8225816']
IMO this is all over blown and really not a big deal at all. Im all for some sort of benefit package for players just like most jobs, but I find it a tad ridiculous to be making a big deal out of concussions after the fact. Also, I dont understand the group that "cringes" at big hits. What did you think was going to happen in a collision sport? Do you "cringe" when watching a dude get laid out in UFC? If you cringe at a big hit, watch badmitton or synchronized swimming instead of football.

1. Please feel free to refrain from playing football if you are worried about concussions. If you do want to play, it comes with the territory.
2. The changes to the game due to helmet to helmet have really killed part of the game, in the mean time raising the "risk" to defensive players. When the offensive player is still allowed to lower his head, you have defenders coming in awkwardly then offering the shoulder/side of their head and leaving them open to big hits.

Probably about 85% of all defensive players of the past would have never been able to survive in the NFL now. Its a shame to watch the league ruin its product. When you have refs throwing the flags to air on the side of caution, it really effects the outcomes of games. Not to mention more often than not, the replay shows that they were not helmet to helmet hits. Injuries of all sorts are part of football, and if you willing go in and compete knowing the risks, thats not on anybody but you.


Like I said, football is a choice. If you want to play for millions, and fame and other opportunities that the normal folk dont get then dont come crying when you develop issues later, or cant walk. [b] I dont see many police officers, soldiers etc coming after their employers after the fact when they get injured or killed in the line of duty.[/b]
[/quote]

I wouldn't say that doesn't happen, i mean treatment of veterans is a huge discussion point in many forums. As was the deaths of many soldiers in recent wars and why it was necessary. I don't think we can really go into that here though as it's fairly political. But i certainly would say many people question why things happen there even though they knew the risks when signing up

I think the millions of dollars is a red herring. I don't think their money is much comfort to them when they are done playing. I think society is sold a bill of good saying money cures all problems. I wouldn't trade places with those guys. You make enough to be happy and the difference between 100K and 1M isn't as much as people think.
[/quote]

Ill take back the soldier thing because its really not a good comparison, they are serving their community/country and doing things that actually matter, so its not the best comparison. Maybe its more like if Fred Couples lead a bunch of golfers in a suit about chronic back pain/problems. Or Hulk Hogan leading a group of wrestelers suing the WWE etc for back and knee issues. Something that came strictly from you playing a completely voluntary sport. Is it sad to see Muhammad Ali the way he is now? Sure is, but kind of hard to expect much different after years of taking punches to the head.

What they ultimately do with their money, if you would swap with them and if they are happy doesnt really effect it either way. I was just saying they are being paid millions to play a game that nobody is forcing them to play. In doing so, imo they voluntarily subject themselves to all the issues down the road. Every single one of those guys in the league is more than capable of stopping any day and working a normal job if they are worried about health issues.