Irons issue....

Last winter (I play primarily between September and February) I was playing 1-3 times a week playing FGTour Wilson player cavities traditional lofted +1 s300s. I was playing at about about a 10-12 handicap. Distance with irons was only frustration. I have a very high ball flight but am mid spin. Just pick the ball up swing that I know I need to fix but I don't play at all half the year so it's tough to be consistent. Decided to get newer irons more Game improvement. I'm a big guy, 118-120 driver and big hitter, but my ball flight on mid and low irons destroy my yardage. I got ping ansers and lost 10 yards or more on some. Pings were dynamic gold x100 and .5 inch. Switched to apex x95 s300 +.5 and was still 5 shy of the fg tours. I traded them in thinking at least apex would be as long as the blade"ire" players club with a touch more go straight. Nope. Is it a shaft issue with the apex? They should be hotter and have less loft than my fgs? With that alone they should out carry them. Thoughts? Weather has been about the same as last year. My ball striking isn't great but I'm losing those distances vs nutted balls too.

I could switch to ctapers. I have a set of fg v2 with c tapers and could switch the shaft to the apex head. Or do I just play the v2?

I'm thinking it is a shaft issue. Were you fitted and was that the shaft recommendation?

If not, a fitter could give you a good idea on what shafts would best suit you.

I'm thinking it could be a swing speed problem. If your swing speed is not all that high, lower lofts and stiffer shafts cost you carry. There is a balance needed between height and swing speed both for near and far distances. Visit a good club fitter.



Shambles

I'm sure it is a swing issue. I don't corpse the ball. Those high rainmaker on nutted shots is really a product of early release. Draw is my normal miss. Goes to a hook rarely. Otherwise off to the toe. I'm not sure what I should do, as game improvement isn't helping at all. I felt like the shafts were weak on the apex. But in my fitting the guy said my ss they were fine. The wonder I have is this, when I hit moon balls can my distance go up with ctaper. I don't need low flights ball, just controllable and not ballooning. If the stiffs fit could I just need a Lowe launching shaft.

Basically, my traditional lofted forged players cavity were longer than game improvement jacked loft. Swing speed isn't the issue at all. I was using a heavier lower launching shafts in the fgs.

Problem I have now is this. I haven't touched a new set of fg tours v2 with ctaper x. I'm thinking of selling new to regain more value. I don't want to hit it if I'm not sure I'm keeping them, you would assume I the v2 are better than fg originals (I've heard that), but everyone is raving about these apex and how far they hit them than other game improvements let alone forged clubs distance gains.

I love the feel of the apex. I feel misses went more closely to distance as center balls. That's huge. But my misses hooked more. And everything came up short.

In a way I'm asking this. When I drive the ball all carry 280 average (118-120 ss), basically identical to last season, why am I losing yards with two more game improvement type irons vs the forged players cavity clubs with traditional lofts. It's not swing speed and I'm comparing apples to apples, only charting well struck balls. FG Tour s300 7iron average: 173, 8iron: 159. Apex 7 iron average: 167, 8 iron: 152. Anser 7 iron 156, 8iron: 146.

When I was 18 I wasn't nearly as strong and was 150 with a soft 8 or firm 9 with ping i3s..... Something off and it's not just my swing. (It's partially both but it shouldn't be this odd of numbers)

I believe I would try the V2's as I am not sure how much value you might be able to get out of them. It seems sometimes counter intuitive, but yesterday whenI was working with the new TaylorMade MC versus CB, you would think I would hit the CB further. This was not the case though. I have decided sometimes clubs just work better than others.

Maybe true. I was wondering some about the v2s having more weight and mass and maybe going further. Kinda like a bigger bat goes further if you can replicate swing speed. I think maybe my swing doesn't react well to the lightweight shafts. I'm 6'4 and an athletic 225... Is it possible they just mismatch my swing to the point that distance irons fly shorter than traditional?

If there is too much spin absolutely!

Sometimes a cavity back, wide sole club produces much higher flight related to high swing speeds. To prove this to your self, hit your seven iron with a normal swing, then a half swing. Watch what the distance related to height is.
A club with a heavy sole can work against you with higher speeds. Changing shafts will probably not help here.
The Anser has a hollow back and a very heavy sole weight. It is designed to hit the ball high. With a faster swing speed, this club action is exacerbated.
I would consider going to the S55 or the i25, if you like ping.

do you know what your launch, spin and ball speed numbers and swing speed irons are? Also launch spin and ballspeed and ss with driver and club specs with driver.

I'm between 80 (smoothest swing) to 90 with the 6iron. Averaging towards 85. I confirmed somethings today. Took the following clubs to range: long and technical. For you who like that enjoy, those who don't, skim charts lol

1. Ping i3 oversized with x100 loft 30.5* length 37.75" (.5 over standard)

2. Ping anser with Tour Issue x100 loft 30* length 38" (.75 over standard)

3. Callaway Apex (nonpro) with TT95 s300 loft 27* length 38" (.5 over standard)

4. Wilson FG Tour V2 with KBS Ctaper X130 loft 29* length 38.5" (full forged. 130 gram shaft. 2* strong, .75" over standard)

70* wind at back 5-10

Trajectory: lowest to highest

Wilson FG (highish. Much lower than apex and anser. Flattened out some)
Ping i3 (high but lower than apex and anser)
Ping anser (crazy high but just lower than apex)
Callaway apex (borderline balloon' moonshots)

Forgiveness: most to least (on mild misses such as good swing but toe or a bit thin or a bit to heel)

Wilson FG tour v2 (maybe 3 yards lost on mild miss hits. Holds line better than others)
Callaway apex (held line well. Borderline no distance change)
Ping ansers (as good as apex but would lose the line some left)
Ping i3 (lost most distance vs nutted)

Swing error help: most to least (how did ball fly when I released early, or came around or inside)

Wilson FG Tour v2 (unless I flat missed awful it was a nice draw. Rare hook on awful shots. One accidental fade)
Ping ansers (loss of distance. Hook on awful miss. Strong draw on average come around)
Ping i3 (loss of distance. Snappy hook. Many falls were left)
Callaway apex (snappy hook and strong draw on misses. Spray feel if not a clean swing)

Distance: most to least

Fg tour v2: nutted shots went nearly 10 further carry than ansers and apex.
Apex/ansers: almost identical. Nutted on apex maybe a yard or two further but so close
Ping i3: 5 short of answer or apex

Feel: best to worst (nutted, mishit)

Fg Tour V2, apex (fg nutted is amazing. Apex missed is completely bareable)
Anser, anser (nutted its nice, missed it's not awful but not soft)
Apex, Fg Tour v2 (apex is great nutted, but clicks and butter unlike the butter FG. Wilson isn't fun on a ball significantly out of middle.
I3, i3 (no feel on nutted, very jarring on misses. Modern tech wins.)

So what to make of this? If I had to bag one as is its obvious, the fg went further with tight dispersion. I also found the sweet spot more consistently with these, though I've never hit them before. Problem is this club overall lacks the consistency on misses and can crush scores if your off toe (my normal miss). My guess is it's the shaft. Looking at the apex snapping left and ballooning it clearly is the wrong shaft, the ansers x100 TI are closer to ctaper in weight and launch. I like the ctaper loading and unloading feel way more. But seeing about same loft and length in a forged club vs another forged club go 10 further is a sign the fg is either longer or the ctaper fits me better.

The 10k question: do I put the ctapers in the apex or just stick with the FGs. The apex is much more forgiving to toe and ball jumped off face but I felt I drove through ball with fg better (could just be shaft again?). Had I only owned the FG today's work would have been outstanding. I drilled that club, but maybe I just like the length, shaft, and swing weight more.

Thoughts? I know there are soooooo many club ho's on here that have done similar things.

Game the FG and sell others or swap shafts play Apex with ctaper and sell FG heads (I have a buyer I think) and Ansers (hopefully to one of you guys)

Couple more things to ask, how DoD you end up going with c taper x? Your iron ss is not proportional to your driver ss. (90 with a 6 iron vs 120 with driver). Not a bad thing necessarily. Did you get fit for them or just an educated guess. X c taper is a lot of shaft for 90 mph 6 iron if you go by the general guidelines (which can be wrong of course). C taper x is a beast shaft. C taper seems like the right profile for you but an s+ or even an s might be an even better fit than the x. Maybe get a hold of a s+ or s for the apex 7 iron to test them out and if you like them sell the other clubs.

I had broken my wrist since the fitting. I got iron shaft fit for ctaper x and driver ss used to be closer to 120-125.

With irons being +.75" and uncut they play less boardy. They fit me well, the only issue is that Wilson doesn't have S+ for custom comped orders so it was x or s.... I had s300 dynamic golfs in a set of fg tour originals and they were +1" and just too whippy causing misses to be hooks, similar to the current to s300 xp. I should have known. But I plunged in after getting a price that 3-aw with the +.5" was less than the standard 3-pw... By a decent amount, and they were new. One night on launch monitor (another mistake) and they were longer and forgiving.

Oh right on. I would try one in the apex then go from there.

So as a follow up..... What a joke. I get on a real machine (trackman) and I'm consistently 101-106 with the 6 iron. Thanks Edwin Watts... 84-90 huh? Time to recalibrate your machine.

My 1hr on the track an turns into a very easy fix, the s300 95xp in the apex aren't even close. My launch is sky high. I'm up to 9600 at times with spin. The ctaper in a players forged club I'm lower, less spin, longer.

Because it became so obvious after the first swing my fitter (who is a friend and does lessons) turns it into 45 mins of fixing my path. By the end of it my "early release/flip" is diminished a bunch. I'm 185 with my 6 on traditional lofts. I still need some more forgiveness, so I'm thinking (as was the fitter) apex heads on KBS C-taper x.

Now I have a set of ping ansers to sell and a set of Wilson fg tour v2 heads to sell. (May have a buyer for V2 heads luckly)

Come on with Edwin watts machine. 84-91? Not a single swing under 101. Shorten backswing flighted punches were 96-99...

Unreal.

Played the c-taper x today in the V2. Stupid. By that I mean I am so stupid for not using this shaft before. The Fg V2 with a c-taper are mindblowing. Everyball I hit today held its line, cut the wind, and gave me +5 yards. Not to mention much lower ball flight and I could back up wedges and 9, 6-8 would be right next to the ballmark, and 3-5 released only 2-5 yards. Hands down the most consistent and best feeling shaft I've ever hit.

Crazy good.

The apex vendor offered to do the c-tapers in those heads for an extra 100 bucks. I agreed. Now I will have 2 sets of filthy ctaper irons running around.