Hunt's WITB, Update 9-18-19 Ping! Honma! TaylorMade! Stability Shaft! All on page 4!

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  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members  4027WRX Points: 723Posts: 4,027 Titanium Tees
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    good to see that I'm not the only one who's playing with counterweighted clubs




    I don't anymore since I went to heavier shafts.



    But, you're in good company with some guy named Nicklaus. Heard he could play back in the day.











    RH
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  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members  4027WRX Points: 723Posts: 4,027 Titanium Tees
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    WVP wrote:


    So it seems like you are very technical on specs, what goes into clubhead selections? Some interesting changes here, from Wishon to the old school Mizuno's...




    I think the Wishon 919THI is the best driver head I've tried so far. I haven't tried the Krank Golf or BombTech heads, yet. The 919THI has Graduated Roll Technology and that helps nullify some of the negative effects from vertical gear effect. I can also hand pick the head so I know the exact loft and face angle. It is also a hot head on off-center hits. I estimate I can miss the face badly and only lose 5-10 yards.



    The TaylorMade Mini-Driver was a concept I wanted to go with after looking at how badly Tour players struggle with using 3-woods off the tee. I hit the Mini-driver pretty well, but I think the head is too back-loaded and a bit too big. I just put together a Wishon 919F/D that I should have posted here, soon.



    The Mizuno Fli-Hi CLK's...I just hit them better than any other hybrid I have tried. Great hybrids.



    I used to have the Wishon 555M model, but the grooves wore out after a while. I loved those clubs. Unfortunately, Wishon stopped making them and moved to the 575MMC model and they just didn't perform quite the same, especially with the 7-iron thru P-Wedge. I then went to Ping S55's because I was interested in playing clubs with higher bounce following the Edel principle. But, I swear I don't think I'll ever buy a set of CB's again in my life. Between hitting them too high, with too much spin, the lack of feel and mediocre feedback, I always end up ditching CB's for MB's down the road.



    I wanted to go back to some blades and I had the TN-87's laying around. I had hit them before I went to the Wishon 555M's and liked them a lot. I then started to bag them again and the 2nd time out I had hit them better than I had ever hit the Ping S55's and the Wishon 575MMC's. Between the feel, the grind and launching them a bit lower with less spin, they are the best irons I've hit in years.



    The Edel wedges I love. I have yet to hit a better L-Wedge in my life. The SW was specifically designed for me, a 52* with a specific head weight that plays more like a 56* around the green, but I can still hit from 125 yards











    RH
    Posted:
  • ParadoxTheatreParadoxTheatre Members  127WRX Points: 0Posts: 127
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    I love the amount of thought and prep that goes into your set. I’m curious as to how you went about finding the right MOI for your clubs. Was it just a matter of experimenting with weight, or did you already have a set feel with certain clubs that you matched with the rest?
    Posted:
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members  4027WRX Points: 723Posts: 4,027 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #35


    I love the amount of thought and prep that goes into your set. I’m curious as to how you went about finding the right MOI for your clubs. Was it just a matter of experimenting with weight, or did you already have a set feel with certain clubs that you matched with the rest?




    I just start with a stock 6-iron. I get a whole bunch of 1-inch strips of High Density Lead Tape. Each 1-inch strip weighs roughly 1-gram.



    I also get some impact tape and a notepad for me to put the impact tape onto after I hit the balls so I can use it for comparative purposes.



    I then apply a strip of impact tape with NO lead tape. Hit 3-5 balls, check out the *impact* dispersion.



    I then apply a new strip of impact tape and now I add a 1-gram strip of lead tape. Hit 3-5 balls, check out the impact dispersion.



    I then get a new strip of impact tape, add another 1-gram strip of lead tape, hit 3-5 balls and check out the impact dispersion.



    Rinse and repeat.



    As I get closer to my optimal MOI, the impact dispersion gets tighter and tighter. If I hit my optimal MOI and then add more lead tape and go past my optimal MOI, the impact dispersion will start to widen again.



    I then go home and measure the MOI of the 6-iron. You can match the rest of the set of irons and wedges to that MOI and be fine.



    But with the hybrids, fairway woods and drivers, I recommend doing a MOI fitting for each.



    Typically, I have found that the Hybrids will need to be about +50 points higher than the irons. The fairway woods about +75 points higher than the irons and the driver about +100 points higher.



    When you're doing it with the 6-iron the impact dispersion will be very tight when you find your optimal MOI. With the longer clubs like the hybrid, fairway woods and driver, the impact dispersion won't be nearly as tight, but it will be better than it was. And if you have a hard time choosing between one MOI and the other, I let ball flight be the final decider.



    I know there are some critics of MOI matching, but I can't begin to tell you how incredibly accurate I've found it to be. Best $500 I ever spent on golf was purchasing a MOI machine.

















    RH
    Posted:
  • ParadoxTheatreParadoxTheatre Members  127WRX Points: 0Posts: 127
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    Okay, cool. I’ve been considering an MOI machine for testing purposes, but have yet to justify the $500 if that’s all it gets used for. I’ve continued to match my clubs by total weight and swingweight simply because it’s easier and because I’m not particularly sensitive to the balance of a club during the swing. I will say that I like my clubs to have a heavier static feel to them, mainly because I grew up playing steel in all my clubs (in driver until the end of 2006, and 3 wood through high school) and it feels more “normal” based on how I grew up playing the game. But even if the altered balance and “feel” of a club is not detected on the conscious level for me, seeing improved impact and overall consistency from MOI-matched clubs would be worth checking out.
    Posted:
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members  4027WRX Points: 723Posts: 4,027 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #37


    Okay, cool. I’ve been considering an MOI machine for testing purposes, but have yet to justify the $500 if that’s all it gets used for. I’ve continued to match my clubs by total weight and swingweight simply because it’s easier and because I’m not particularly sensitive to the balance of a club during the swing. I will say that I like my clubs to have a heavier static feel to them, mainly because I grew up playing steel in all my clubs (in driver until the end of 2006, and 3 wood through high school) and it feels more “normal” based on how I grew up playing the game. But even if the altered balance and “feel” of a club is not detected on the conscious level for me, seeing improved impact and overall consistency from MOI-matched clubs would be worth checking out.




    For me it was worth the purchase just based on curiousity. I started to do some MOI matching for some people and eventually basically got the machine paid for.



    But, if you like spending money on clubs and get different clubs frequently or you want to stop being a club ho to a degree...then the MOI machine is well worth the money.











    RH
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  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members  4027WRX Points: 723Posts: 4,027 Titanium Tees
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    Here's an updated WITB:



    Driver: Wishon 919THI, 10* loft (stamped 11*), 0* face angle, 45-1/8" UST Mamiya ProForce VTS Red 7x shaft



    3-wood (**new**): Wishon 919F/D, 13* loft (stamped 14*), 0* face angle, 43" UST Mamiya ProForce VTS Silver 8x shaft



    2-Hybrid: Mizuno Fli-Hi CLK, 17* Loft, KBS Tour Hybrid shaft (x-stiff)



    3-Hybrid: Mizuno Fli-Hi CLK, 20* loft, KBS Tour Hybrid shaft (x-stiff)



    4-iron thru P-Wedge (***new**): Yonez EZone MB w/ Nippon Modus 130 shafts (x-stiff)



    S-Wedge: Edel Golf Driver Grind, 52* loft, 16* bounce, 36-1/8" Nippon WV125 shaft



    L-Wedge: Edel Golf Digger Grind, 60* loft, 27* bounce, 35-1/2" Nippon WV125 shaft



    Putter (***new***): Bettinardi Golf Kuchar Model 2 ArmLock putter, 7* loft, 42" long



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    Posted:
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members  4027WRX Points: 723Posts: 4,027 Titanium Tees
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    I got my Mizuno TN-87's back from The Iron Factory. Unfortunately, I didn't take much in the way of 'before' pics. Here's a decent idea of what they looked like:



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    Here's what they look like now:



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    I did measure the head weights before and after.



    The 4-iron, 5-iron, 9-iron and P-Wedge lost 1-2 grams of head weight after the re-chroming. The 6-iron lost 2.5 grams, the 7-iron lost 3.8 grams and the 8-iron lost 4.8 grams.



    I've only re-shafted the 4-iron and 6-iron (needed some new grips) and I added tip weights and the irons feel just as good as they ever have and no difference in anything other than the looks. So, I'm very happy how this turned out.











    RH
    Posted:
  • Judge440Judge440 Titleist will always have my heart. Cleveland, OH USAClubWRX  2147WRX Points: 161Handicap: 5Posts: 2,147 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #40
    Yonex and OG Mizzy blades lookin' good. Thanks for sharing.
    Posted:
    TaylorMade M5 10.5* - GD Tour AD-DI 6X 
    TaylorMade M3 15* - GD Tour AD-DI 7X
    Titleist 818H1 19* - GD Tour AD-DI 8X
    Honma T//World 747 V - KBS Tour $-Taper 130X
    Titleist SM7 Raw - 50.12F | 54.14F | 60-12D - TT TI S400
    Scotty Cameron Tour Rat


    WITB Link

    https://www.instagram.com/judge44o/
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members  4027WRX Points: 723Posts: 4,027 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #41
    ****UPDATE 7.28.15****



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    Wishon 919THI, 9.5* loft (stamped at 9*), 45-1/2” Fujikura Motore Speeder 661 shaft (x-stiff) – I had the 10 degree Wishon, but the head cracked and they gave me a new head for free and I wanted it at 9.5 degrees. I switched out shafts to the Fujikura Motore Speeder and have gained legitimately 20 yards off the tee. I think ideally it’s better at 45” with a little more weight in the head, but for now I will keep it as such. I plan on getting fitted by Fujikura directly in December.


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    Wishon 919F/D, 13* loft (stamped at 14*), 43” UST Mamiya ProForce VTS Silver 8x shaft – I like a bigger 3-wood head so I can use it off the tee if needed, but some of the mini-driver heads are too big and I kept hitting below the CoG of the head when I was hitting off the deck. I was thinking of junking this shaft, but I made some swing changes and the ball flight was much better with this club after the swing changes.


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    Mizuno Fli-Hi CLK, 17* and 20* lofts, with KBS Tour Hybrid Shafts (x-stiff) – I have yet to find hybrids that I play as well as these. I want the hybrids to technically be my best clubs in my bag since I am often trying to hit them the furthest from the worst lies. I plan on changing out the ferrules and getting them to match my irons ferrules when I get the chance.


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    Yonex EZone MB irons with Nippon Modus 130 shafts (x-stiff) – I was initially using these as a backup set until my Mizuno’s came back re-chromed, but I have hit these soooo well that I can’t put them down. All of my clubs are MOI matched (including my driver and wedges). These are matched to 2,725 MOI with 3/8” shaft increments. I still have the 3-iron which I use for practice daily because…if you can hit a butter knife 3-iron well, you can assuredly hit the rest of the irons well. I think the only irons I would be interested in outside of these is the Yonex Ti-Hybrid MB’s. But, they really don’t sell them in the US for a reasonable price.


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    Titleist Vokey F-Grind, 52* loft, 12* bounce, Nippon Modus 125 Wedge Shaft – I had been trying to find the right 52* Sand Wedge that I could hit from 120-130 yards and hit from right around the green if necessary. I tried the Edel Wedge which was really great around the green, but a bit too ‘clunky’ for me on full swings. I eventually started to see that I usually can get away with using just my L-Wedge on most shots around the green. So, I started looking for a less ‘clunky’ model and I have hit this Vokey quite well. I plan on changing out the ferrule when I get some free time.


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    Edel Golf Digger Grind, 60* loft, 27* bounce, Nippon Modus 125 Wedge Shaft – This is by far the best L-Wedge I’ve ever owned. So much so that I’m skeptical of trying to replace it with a brand new head. I plan on probably getting a new head, as this one is worn, come next year when I am playing in some tournaments. The Modus wedge shaft launches it out low and very spinny.


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    Bettinardi Kuchar Model 2 ArmLock Putter, 42” long, 7* loft - was putting quite well with this, but started to struggle lately. Started to lose some of the fundamentals that I have been working on. It’s a great feeling putter though.


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    Titleist Pro V1x and Nicklaus Black Golf Balls– It’s a tough call because I like both balls, but I would probably pick the Pro V1x if I had to choose. I think the main difference is the Pro V1x flies further on mis-hits because the Nicklaus Black is a very low spinning ball with the driver. What I like about the Nicklaus Black is that is feels good and spins higher on wedge shots. It’s also more durable than the Pro V1x. I think it also makes me swing better because when I start sliding forward I start hitting low trajectory shots with the Nicklaus Black. But, both are great golf balls.


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    Edel Golf-Ball Mark Tool - I love this tool as it's really snazzy and just a beautiful job done by David Edel.


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    FootJoy Pure Touch Limited –I like the Sta-Sof gloves, but if you want something to fit you ‘like a glove’, the Pure Touch Limited has no equals. But, it ain’t cheap.


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    RH
    Posted:
  • JonesyJonesy Durban, South AfricaMembers  1578WRX Points: 169Posts: 1,578 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #42
    Those are some of the best looking irons ever I reckon, wouldn't mind a set of those. Great looking bag!
    Posted:
    Callaway Optiforce 440 9.5*
    Taylormade Rocketballz tour 18*
    Mizuno MP H-4 2 iron
    Callaway X Prototype 4 - PW
    Cleveland 50* Mizuno 54* 58* MP-T11
    Scotty Cameron Newport
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  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members  4027WRX Points: 723Posts: 4,027 Titanium Tees
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    Jonesy wrote:


    Those are some of the best looking irons ever I reckon, wouldn't mind a set of those. Great looking bag!




    Thanks!













    RH
    Posted:
  • redheadredhead Members  722WRX Points: 35Posts: 722 Golden Tee
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    RichieHunt wrote:


    I got my Mizuno TN-87's back from The Iron Factory. Unfortunately, I didn't take much in the way of 'before' pics. Here's a decent idea of what they looked like:



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    Here's what they look like now:



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    I did measure the head weights before and after.



    The 4-iron, 5-iron, 9-iron and P-Wedge lost 1-2 grams of head weight after the re-chroming. The 6-iron lost 2.5 grams, the 7-iron lost 3.8 grams and the 8-iron lost 4.8 grams.



    I've only re-shafted the 4-iron and 6-iron (needed some new grips) and I added tip weights and the irons feel just as good as they ever have and no difference in anything other than the looks. So, I'm very happy how this turned out.











    RH




    Just curious, how much did it cost you?
    Posted:
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members  4027WRX Points: 723Posts: 4,027 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #45
    redhead wrote:

    RichieHunt wrote:


    I got my Mizuno TN-87's back from The Iron Factory. Unfortunately, I didn't take much in the way of 'before' pics. Here's a decent idea of what they looked like:



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    Here's what they look like now:



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    I did measure the head weights before and after.



    The 4-iron, 5-iron, 9-iron and P-Wedge lost 1-2 grams of head weight after the re-chroming. The 6-iron lost 2.5 grams, the 7-iron lost 3.8 grams and the 8-iron lost 4.8 grams.



    I've only re-shafted the 4-iron and 6-iron (needed some new grips) and I added tip weights and the irons feel just as good as they ever have and no difference in anything other than the looks. So, I'm very happy how this turned out.











    RH




    Just curious, how much did it cost you?




    It cost me about $210 for 7 irons total. That includes the shipping and tax. This was just for the head chroming. I removed the shafts myself.



    They did a fantastic job. Look brand new. I'll probably take a pic of them, soon.











    RH
    Posted:
  • Santiago GolfSantiago Golf I Strive to make you Better Members  5093WRX Points: 197Handicap: ???Posts: 5,093 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #46
    Great bag, are you still playing PURE Grips?
    Posted:
    Driver: Taylormade M2 '17 10.5*; Accura Tour Z Pink, 85 M5 (285, can get one or two to carry 300+ if needed)
    Fairway: Taylormade Aeroburner TP 15*; Diamana Blueboard 72x (255)
    LOOKING FOR A 7 Wood (probably gunna be 230-235 club)
    Irons: Nike Vapor Pro Combo 4-AW; Aldila VS Proto "By You" 100x
    4-5; 38", 61* lie, 5 iron weight (220, 210) 6-8; 37", 62* lie, 8 iron weight (195, 180, 165) 9-AW; 36", 63* lie (150, 130, 110)
    S Wedge: Scratch 1018 DS 57*; Dynamic Gold S400 Onyx; 35.5", 63.5* lie (85): I HARDLY USE IT IN THE BUNKER
    L Wedge: Maltby Third Wedge (Custom Grind) 62*; Dynamic Gold S400 Onyx; 35", 64* lie: THIS IS MY BUNKER CLUB, HARDLY USE FROM OUTSIDE 40 YARDS!!
    Putter: Scotty Cameron Studio Design #5 MB, YES! Tour Tracey (for practice only)
    Ball: Vice Pro
    Grip: Super Stroke S-Tech Cord (Woods +6 wraps, Irons and wedges +8 wraps)
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members  4027WRX Points: 723Posts: 4,027 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #47


    Great bag, are you still playing PURE Grips?




    Yes. I play the Pure P2 Wraps with no tape underneath. Still Blue and white.











    RH
    Posted:
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  • Qqq123xxQqq123xx I wake up take a few steps and am in a haze the rest of the day. Members  6524WRX Points: 615Handicap: XX.7Posts: 6,524 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #48
    Nicklaus black have never heard of those. And that is not saying much really lol. Yep been living in a cave. Great pics and info. Thanks for sharing.
    Posted:
    Callaway Razr X Black 9.5 stiff
    Callaway Razr X Black 4wd. stiff
    Wilson CI9 4-gw. TT reg.
    Cleveland RTG Wedges TT reg. 52,56.
    Nxt Tour.
    Cleveland Classic #4
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members  4027WRX Points: 723Posts: 4,027 Titanium Tees
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    Qqq123xx wrote:


    Nicklaus black have never heard of those. And that is not saying much really lol. Yep been living in a cave. Great pics and info. Thanks for sharing.




    Low spinning with the driver and high spinning with pitch shots.



    I think they are a bit too low spinning so on mis-hits with the driver they may not travel really far. But, on a dry course they could be ideal.



    I paid $32 for the dozen and that includes shipping. So I save about 35% from the Pro V1x.



















    RH
    Posted:
  • GOLF4373GOLF4373 Members  346WRX Points: 57Posts: 346 Greens
    Joined:  #50
    I'd say this is a "boutique" set up at it's finest. I played Dimension Z irons for years. They were very precision fit but i think you have me beat here with MOI matching. Nice clubs
    Posted:
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members  4027WRX Points: 723Posts: 4,027 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #51
    Here's my latest WITB:



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    I added 3 new items:



    Cobra King F6 3-wood - I have a Wishon 919F/D that I hit well, but it generated too much spin for me. So I could hit it well, but lose some valuable distance. I liked the F6 because the CoG was lower and I could move the CoG around as well as adjust the loft. I will get a different shaft in there, soon. The Matrix shaft, even for a stiff shaft, is pretty good, but it's a little light.



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    Edel The Brick Putter - I have an Edel E-3 Torque Balanced Putter that I liked quite a bit. But, I like how The Brick sets up and I prefer the feel on mis-hits. It's also a little lighter and I like how it has performed on slower greens which will be happening soon in Florida as the summer months come along.



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    Here's my E-3 putter:



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    Edel Digger Grind L-Wedge - I love this L-Wedge. I just got a new head because the old wedge was wearing down: I also like the new Edel logo.



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    I'm probably going to go to the SM6 in the next few months for the 52* wedge as my SM5 will be wearing down sometime soon. I would also like to try the Srixon Z945's. The Modus shafts launch too high for my tastes and I'll probably end up with TT DG X100 Tour Issue shafts sometime. The Hybrids may be retired (had them for 7 years) in place of the new Hogan VKTR hybrids whenever they come out.













    RH
    Posted:
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members  4027WRX Points: 723Posts: 4,027 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #52
    I've added new irons and...new GRIPS



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    Yes, I added the Srixon Z 945 irons. I have the 3-PW, but I usually just game the 4-PW and use the 3-iron as a practice club. They also come with True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100 shafts and the Enlow Grips:



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    I have the Enlow Grips on all of my clubs except for the L-Wedge and the Putter. The Enlow Grips are about 130 grams and they are reverse tapered. The butt end is about the same size as a regular sized grip, but the diameter is much wider towards the mouth of the grip.



    I really love these grips. They are great on just about every club. I drive it better now and don't miss left as much. My 3-wood play has greatly improved. I'm liking the ball flight on my long irons more and I even really dig the grips on my S-Wedge. The only problem I've had with them is with the L-Wedge. I don't hit it poorly, but I was so good with my L-Wedge with the regular grip that I decided to keep a normal sized grip on my L-Wedge.



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    Here's the full specs on my clubs. I had the MOI of the irons matched to 2,725 and I was at 2,775 with the hybrids, 2,800 with the 3-wood and 2,825 with the driver. I've found that these grips increase the MOI by about 30 points, but the MOI matching performance is still the same.



    A few of these clubs went over the MOI I was looking for (2,755 with the irons) like the 5-iron and 9-iron. That may have been due to the design of the grip and it could change the CoG of the grip and therefore the club. But, I've been striking it quite well and really can't complain.



    Srixon.png

















    RH
    Posted:
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  • imanoffimanoff Members  108WRX Points: 32Posts: 108 Bunkers
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    Interesting setup!



    How do you like Nippon Modus on your wedges? I thought you're going to use X100 just like your irons.
    Posted:
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members  4027WRX Points: 723Posts: 4,027 Titanium Tees
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    imanoff wrote:


    Interesting setup!



    How do you like Nippon Modus on your wedges? I thought you're going to use X100 just like your irons.




    I've had the Nippons in my wedges before I had the Srixon's with the X100's.



    I had Nippon Modus 130's in my previous irons set (Yonex EZone MB's). The reason why I changed the shafts to X100 is that the Modus 130's launched too high for me. It was a real problem into the wind which happens to occur a lot in Florida.



    But, I love the Modus Wedge shafts in the wedges. They launch low and spin quite a bit. Really handy around the green and feels really good. So I kept them in the wedges and switched the X100's in my irons. And so far, very please with the results.



    The next step is probably switching out the hybrids. Have had those bad boys for 7 years, but I have a new set of hybrids in mind.













    RH
    Posted:
  • Snowman9000Snowman9000 Members  1255WRX Points: 232Handicap: 10Posts: 1,255 Platinum Tees
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    Those grips are very interesting. I have played the Tacki-Mac non tapers but they are not even close to that weight.

    Do you feel a big difference in swing feel?
    Posted:
    Driver M4
    3h, 4h, 5h Adams Idea Tech 2015
    6-GW Snake Eyes basic GI irons
    54º, 58º Callaway MD2 Forged S grind
    Odyssey Jailbird Mini
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members  4027WRX Points: 723Posts: 4,027 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Jun 20, 2016 #56


    Those grips are very interesting. I have played the Tacki-Mac non tapers but they are not even close to that weight.

    Do you feel a big difference in swing feel?




    At the 2011 PGA Merchandise Show I had come across the Enlow Grips. I thought they were weird, but they didn't feel too bad. I didn't know they were reverse tapered at the time.



    Back in November I tried the JumboMax Grips as that's what DeChambeau uses. I couldn't hit the JumboMax grips to save my life. I would miss everything right and high. I think that's because I grip the club more in my fingers while DeChambeau grips it more in his palms and the size of the grip in the left hand makes it difficult to get enough face rotation to get the club square at impact and instead it leaves the face open at impact if you grip the club more in the fingers.



    As far as the Enlow Grips, the big thing I notice about them is I don't miss it left. I mean, I rarely miss it left with these grips. And missing right isn't an issue either, but there's a possibility I can miss it right. But missing left happens once in a blue moon. And they are especially forgiving on toe hits. Plus, I get some mild cases of golfer's elbow and these are more ergonomically designed to help with that.




    ***






    I don't use swingweight to measure my clubs. To me, it's a worthless measurement because it's flawed.



    Instead, I use MOI and use my Auditor MOI Machine. It serves the same purpose as swingweight (to get the clubs to feel the same as you swing them).



    Typically, adding weight to the grip doesn't change the MOI (aka the feel of the club when swinging them). That's what swingweight fails to account for...the total weight of the club. Swingweight's 'logic' is that the club will feel lighter if you add weight to them just because you added weight to the grip instead of the head. Makes little sense that a heavier club will somehow feel lighter.



    Anyway, it usually takes a lot of weight added to the butt end of the grip to increase the MOI (actually make the club feel heavier). From my experience, adding counterweights doesn't even really change it because the counterweights are small and may be about 1" long or so at most.



    With the JumboMax and Enlow Grips though...I've found that they increase the MOI by about 20-30 points. The grips are much longer than any counterweight and that means more weight is added somewhat closer to the head than a counterweight.



    We fit for MOI by measuring impact dispersion first and foremost. Then we look at trajectory.



    Previously, I fitted myself at 2,825 for the driver, 2800 for the 3-wood, 2775 for the hybrids and 2725 for the irons and wedges. I have not tried to fit for MOI with the Enlow grips on, but I think that 20-30 point increase with the Enlow Grips is probably just fine and is probably what ideally fits me with the Enlow Grips on. If I increased the MOI by 20-30 points with standard grips on, that combination would probably not work well.



    While a normal counterweight doesn't change MOI, at least it does not decrease the MOI. So unlike swingweight, MOI matching is not saying that a club is lighter because you added a counterweight. Changing from swingweight to MOI not only makes far more sense to me, but it's helped my game and helped me understand equipment and how to fit myself to equipment better.



    If I change equipment now, it's because I see a possible design advantage. If I'm struggling with a certain club, I can always re-check it on the MOI machine. I've had lead tape come off and not know about it until a few rounds later where I was struggling with that club and then re-measured it on the MOI machine and found that the MOI was much lower than I had originally assembled it to.



    It's the best $500 I ever spent in golf. By far, bar none.



















    RH
    Posted:
  • pitchinwedgepitchinwedge Members  1556WRX Points: 113Handicap: 7.6Posts: 1,556 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #57
    Richie, I'm tinkering with Doherty's spreadsheet as I don't have an MOI machine. Wondering if you, or perhaps anyone else, could share how to use the Aux Weight and Backweight fields? is the input for the CG column then the distance from the butt in cm? For example, adding an 8g backweight about 4 inches (10.16cm) down the shaft is entered as 8 in the Weight column and then 10.16 in the CG column?



    Also, any advice on figuring out the Grip BP? Is there something wrong with putting the grip on the same fulcrum used to measure shaft BP? Thanks!
    Posted:
    917 D2 8.50* - Tensei CK Pro White 60
    917 F2 13.5* - Rogue Max 70
    816 H2 19.0* - D+ Plus 90
    716 T-MB (3i, 4i) - Modus 120
    716 CB (5-PW) - Modus 120
    Hogan TK15 - 49, 55
    Edel Deschutes

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  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members  4027WRX Points: 723Posts: 4,027 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #58
    I'm pretty certain the distance is from the butt. You can use the same fulcrum for shaft and grip balance point.















    RH
    Posted:
  • pitchinwedgepitchinwedge Members  1556WRX Points: 113Handicap: 7.6Posts: 1,556 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #59
    Cool, thanks for the super fast reply!



    I'm finding the grip balance point somewhat critical in achieving desired MOI and MBI. Doherty's instructions recommended 0.51 for cap thickness and 9.6cm for grip BP, but the MBI calculations seem very sensitive to whatever value is in the BP field. For example, keeping everything the same on my 3i,while changing only the grip BP from 9.6 to 8.6 to 7.6 reduces MOI by just -1.41 and -1.42 but it reduces the target MBI difference from -4.19 to -3.08 to -1.95 (which seems like a lot to me). I'm fine with using the 0.51 cap thickness, but using the fulcrum, the BP of my Golf Pride MCC+4's are 10.5!



    So on paper, tweaking grip weight and the BP toward the butt is the only way I seem to be able to get my set within a fairly small variance for MOI and MBI. However, I don't understand why moving the grip BP toward the butt is different from simply adding a counterweight at the butt of the shaft before slipping the grip on. The resulting MOI and MBI are different. Only my PW needs an Opti-Loc or similar to place 8g about 20cm down the shaft works but I still don't know if the grip BP is correct. Am I using the spreadsheet correctly or am I missing something here?



    Posted:
    917 D2 8.50* - Tensei CK Pro White 60
    917 F2 13.5* - Rogue Max 70
    816 H2 19.0* - D+ Plus 90
    716 T-MB (3i, 4i) - Modus 120
    716 CB (5-PW) - Modus 120
    Hogan TK15 - 49, 55
    Edel Deschutes

    Photo WITB
  • RichieHuntRichieHunt Members  4027WRX Points: 723Posts: 4,027 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #60
    I stopped using Monte's spreadsheet because it was too time consuming and a bit too confusing. To his credit, he doesn't recommend using the sheet if you're a clubmaker and it's something to try.



    I tend to use a ration of the shaft+grip weight vs. the head weight instead.



    So, I'm not an expert on Doherty's sheet. I believe there's an e-mail address on there for Monte and I know I e-mailed him a while ago and he did respond to the questions I had. You may want to try the same.



    I think it's a very interesting concept that has merit to it. But, there needs to be an easier way to do it so people can study and test the concept more in order to come up with new findings.



    In the end, it shows the potential hazards of having either too light or too heavy of a shaft even if you have the MOI matched to your fitted MOI.















    RH
    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
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  • pitchinwedgepitchinwedge Members  1556WRX Points: 113Handicap: 7.6Posts: 1,556 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Jun 29, 2016 #61
    Another question for you Richie... am I correct that it's better to match a calculated MOI figure (kg/cm squared) rather than the measured SW? The reason I ask is because I've read +/-0.5 SW progression with 3/8" intervals; however, some of my results are 0.25 SW or less between some clubs.



    FWIW, I don't have the MOI machine but I do have a SW scale. So again I'm using a spreadsheet to estimate the MOI for all clubs. Thanks!



    Edit: I was thinking about adding a counter weight to the short-irons for better balance (ie. 12g OptiVibe at 10" down the shaft in the PW) but seems like doing so will drastically reduce SW. Something just doesn't seem right. I'm open to any suggestions.



    Here's a chart of the components I'm working with if it helps:



    Posted:
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    917 D2 8.50* - Tensei CK Pro White 60
    917 F2 13.5* - Rogue Max 70
    816 H2 19.0* - D+ Plus 90
    716 T-MB (3i, 4i) - Modus 120
    716 CB (5-PW) - Modus 120
    Hogan TK15 - 49, 55
    Edel Deschutes

    Photo WITB
5

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